Leblanc Sends Warning to Demonstrators

[Clovis Lark]

David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Clovis Lark wrote:
>>
>> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >>
>> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> >> > > Try and secure a better argument. When was the last time you supported a cultural
>> >> >> >> > > institution?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > It's a great argument if you haven't been dulled your whole life by socialist
>> >> >> >> > propaganda.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I support what I like and what interests me with my patronage. I expect others will
>> >> >> >> > voluntarily do the same. I object to money being taken at gunpoint for others' pet
>> >> >> >> > projects and so-called culture. If people don't care enough to voluntarily support it,
>> >> >> >> > it isn't really their culture, now is it?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Would you deny funding to The Washington Monument? The Smithsonian? Arlington? Library
>> >> >> >> of Congress?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Taxpayer 'cultural' funding supports all of those.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > The Washington Monument was built with private donations. The Smithsonian was funded for
>> >> >> > many years by Smithson's endowment from his will. The Statue of Liberty was built
>> >> >> > privately. Children raised $500,000 in pennies to build the pedestal.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
>> >>
>> >> > Your point?
>> >>
>> >> Your brilliant coverage of the origins of all these monuments was lacking this detail. I was
>> >> sure you'd wish it included so as to show how no tax dollars were used.
>>
>> > The statue was paid for in France by a private lottery that raised $400,000. Sorry for the
>> > omission.
>>
>> In part. But keep the details coming!

> Why don't you enlighten the world.

What, deny you your public's accolades? No, I can't. But I really DO appreciate you for asking!

>> >> >> > These things were not publicly funded until creeping socialism insinuated into politics
>> >> >> > accelerated by the Depression.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Arlington was confiscated from Robert E. Lee to bury Union dead.

 

[Clovis Lark]

David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>>
>> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > Your point?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Your brilliant coverage of the origins of all these monuments was
>> lacking
>> > > >> this detail. I was sure you'd wish it included so as to show how no
>> tax
>> > > >> dollars were used.
>> > >
>> > > > The statue was paid for in France by a private lottery that raised $400,000. Sorry for the
>> > > > omission.
>> > >
>> > > In part. But keep the details coming!
>> >
>> > Why don't you enlighten the world.
>>
>> There are no tax dollars spent in maintaining the Statue of Liberty, correct?
>>
>> K. Gringioni anti-tax fighter

> You keep coming back around to exactly the problem, don't you

Well, you got those big ugly monuments are over the land, those useless old cemetaries, those opry
houses, already paid for. Now who's going to maintain them?

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
> > >>
> > >> > Your point?
> > >>
> > >> Your brilliant coverage of the origins of all these monuments was
lacking
> > >> this detail. I was sure you'd wish it included so as to show how no
tax
> > >> dollars were used.
> >
> > > The statue was paid for in France by a private lottery that raised $400,000. Sorry for the
> > > omission.
> >
> > In part. But keep the details coming!
>
> Why don't you enlighten the world.

There are no tax dollars spent in maintaining the Statue of Liberty, correct?

K. Gringioni anti-tax fighter

 

[David Ryan]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
> > > >>
> > > >> > Your point?
> > > >>
> > > >> Your brilliant coverage of the origins of all these monuments was
> lacking
> > > >> this detail. I was sure you'd wish it included so as to show how no
> tax
> > > >> dollars were used.
> > >
> > > > The statue was paid for in France by a private lottery that raised $400,000. Sorry for the
> > > > omission.
> > >
> > > In part. But keep the details coming!
> >
> > Why don't you enlighten the world.
>
> There are no tax dollars spent in maintaining the Statue of Liberty, correct?
>
> K. Gringioni anti-tax fighter

You keep coming back around to exactly the problem, don't you

 

[David Ryan]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >>
> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > Tom Paterson wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >From: David Ryan
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >When those other people decide they aren't worth it and keep their money, they decide to
> >> >> >> >demand they're owed a living. The parasites should all starve and die (or get a job) and
> >> >> >> >everyone else will be better off. Good grief, the depths they've sunk to and the lousy
> >> >> >> >attitude that's been engendered by years of socialism and the sense of entitlement
> >> >> >> >simply because they exist.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You seem to have missed the part about communities that rely on tourism suffering
> >> >> >> economically at the loss of these seasonal workers. IOW, "everyone" was not better off.
> >> >>
> >>
> >> >> > Everyone, including all the taxpayers across the country paying the subsidies, will be
> >> >> > better off with a market equilibrium.
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Then why is the right so concerned when cultural institutions sudden scream in fiscal
> >> >> desperation?
> >>
> >> > What are you talking about?
> >>
> >> Because,when it comes to arts/culture there is no such thing as a market equilibrium. Perhaps
> >> you should read up and get back to us. You might also find out that there is no market
> >> equilibrium for bike racing here, either, or coverage of it.
>
> > Of course there is. It may be zero, but there certainly is.
>
> Well, why don't you tell us what it is. Better yet, email Henry Fogel of the American Symphony
> Orchestra League and find out?
>
> >> >> >> So, construction workers who draw unemployment in the winter, are they parasites too? Or
> >> >> >> is it just that "art" is bad?
> >> >>
> >> >> > Most construction projects do the indoor work in the winter.
> >> >>
> >> >> Oh, like my friends who do roofing. Good to know. I'll inform them what lazy leeches they
> >> >> are.
> >>
> >> > Show them how to drywall while you're at it. Hammer, nails, same basic principles. sheesh
> >>
> >> Why don't you just go up there, confront them and tell it to their faces. Once you've convinced
> >> them, then march down and tell the dry wallers they are being replaced. After you've done that,
> >> I've got some tree surgery for you to lend a hand in.
>
> > I don't have to do that. I just support cutting off the subsidy. When the subsidy is cut off,
> > they will all go do drywall without any prompting from me. Miraculous how that works. Some might
> > even do a little tree surgery for you.
>
> That's what I love, a glib answer based upon a book or some pixel. Real people, real employment
> situations be damned.

It's not glib. Perennial subsidies make the situation worse, like water piling up behind a dam. The
subsidies entice additional excess. It eventually becomes insupportable. Then the dislocation is
worse than if there had never been a subsidy. Meanwhile, it takes away from everybody where real
demand exists.

Now if you have any informed rebuttal...

> >> >> >> Or maybe that welfare (tax rebates and free stadiums for mega-wealthy sports franchise
> >> >> >> owners) is only good for the rich?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Speaking of lousy attitudes and feelings of entitlement, where does "build me a facility
> >> >> >> or I'll go elsewhere" fit in? "Socialism" works real well for those at the top, right,
> >> >> >> David? How about these guys start operating in your "real world" and have to buy their
> >> >> >> own playpens and pay taxes on them like the little guys do in their business enterprises?
> >> >> >> --Tom Paterson
> >> >>
> >> >> > I agree totally, completely, emphatically with your last point. My vote and voice FWIW is
> >> >> > always against that.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Unless maybe they want to build a velodrome ;-) (Which never happens, so I've never had to
> >> >> > face that conflict.)

 

[David Ryan]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:27:01 GMT, David Ryan wrote: [some more ****]
>
> Before the accident, were you already a narrow-minded anti-community extremist? Please take your
> issues elsewhere like alt.politics.

Out of arguments already?

 

[David Ryan]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > When the government withdraws funding, institutions raise tickets prices to attempt to cover
> > > the deficit. Prices reach the stratosphere and
> there
> > > goes the general public's ability to attend.
> >
> > That's EXACTLY the problem - not enough general public attending. The general public fills
> > arenas at any price if they're interested.
>
> No they don't. Otherwise arenas/stadia wouldn't need public subsidization.

They don't. I don't mean that the new stadia with the boxes and perks. They do. Stadia for the
public like the old ones don't and didn't. Gold-plated stuff will need subsidies. But why should
those who don't use it pay for the gold plating for those that do? They shouldn't.

> Football stadiums for pro teams only house 8 regular season games/year. It's almost as bad as
> agricultural and logging subsidies.

 

[David Ryan]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Bob wrote:
> > >
> > > David Ryan wrote:
> > >
> > > > You want the general public that doesn't go to pay for those that do. And the bias is that
> > > > the less well off pay for the pleasures of the wine and cheese crowd.
> > >
> > > yeah right. and those brand spanking new football and baseball stadiums
> are
> > > not paid with public funds .... it's a well known fact that the 'wine
> and
> > > cheese crowd' goes to football games.
> >
> > Didn't I mention I oppose those? It is a well known fact that those are built these days to
> > replace perfectly serviceable and privately financed "classic" stadia to provide more luxury
> > boxes at the insistence of the wine and cheese crowd.
>
> I am as against the public subsidization of stadia as you are, but you are mistaken in blaming
> that phenomenon on the wine and cheese crowd. In order to avoid litigation, municipalities usually
> have referendums on stadium funding. Those pass based upon the ignorance of Joe Six Pack.

We're getting close to agreement. But it's the wine and cheese crowd that push for new
"state-of-the-art" stadia, i.e. ones with the boxes that cater to them, in the first place. And then
they go looking for somebody else to pay for it.

 

[Clovis Lark]

David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Clovis Lark wrote:
>>
>> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >>
>> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> S. Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > "Lindsay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Tour Director Sends Warning to Demonstrators
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> NARBONNE, France (Reuters) - Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc on
>> >> >> >> >> >> Wednesday warned demonstrators against disrupting the race.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > <<snip..>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> "If on the other hand people attack riders or try to stop the peloton, then we
>> >> >> >> >> >> cannot guarantee anything. Security services will do their job and you know what I
>> >> >> >> >> >> mean," he said.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > <<snip..>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Heehee..wonder what he means by this?? Does anybody know if these artists are
>> >> >> >> >> > employed by the government? What do they do exactly?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Seriously curious,
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Since you are: These are seasonal artists who are employed contractually to short
>> >> >> >> >> term projects (festivals, specific tours, etc.) by those organizations. When not so
>> >> >> >> >> employed, they are out of work. They have been able to collect unemployment
>> >> >> >> >> compensation in the past when these opportunities were not available that allowed
>> >> >> >> >> them to continue focusing and refining their abilities as artists with the hope of
>> >> >> >> >> mainstream employment. For this reason, french aspiring artists with the technical
>> >> >> >> >> credentials have been able to keep table waiting and temporary office work to a
>> >> >> >> >> minimum. Chirac want s to curtail this. As a result the major french festivals of
>> >> >> >> >> Avignon, Aix, etc are closed. Businesses are hurting and support for these festivals'
>> >> >> >> >> futures are in doubt. For the communities who rely on this cultural tourism, this is
>> >> >> >> >> a nightmare. Understandably, there is a great deal of worry and concern.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Scott..
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > IOW, they can't deal with real life and want somebody else to pay their upkeep. When
>> >> >> >> > those other people decide they aren't worth it and keep their money, they decide to
>> >> >> >> > demand they're owed a living.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Try and secure a better argument. When was the last time you supported a cultural
>> >> >> >> institution?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > It's a great argument if you haven't been dulled your whole life by socialist propaganda.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well folks, I guess that answers that question, doesn't it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I support what I like and what interests me with my patronage.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When the government withdraws funding, institutions raise tickets prices to attempt to
>> >> >> cover the deficit. Prices reach the stratosphere and there goes the general public's
>> >> >> ability to attend.
>> >>
>> >> > That's EXACTLY the problem - not enough general public attending.
>> >>
>> >> General public attendance is the highest it's ever been. You need to read up on this before
>> >> jumping in.
>>
>> > I think we are talking about two different general publics. The general public that doesn't go
>> > is the highest it's ever been too. But if you're right, why can't they pay for it?
>>
>> Because the demographics involved go way beyond your wine cheese brigades. It is like the cancer
>> institute that Lance availed himself of. He couldn't pay for that either.

> Actually he paid far more than his share.

Actually, what he paid was a fraction of the cost of the care. The rest came out of taxpayer
pockets. We aren't talking about his share. I bet Lance would tell you he isn't even close to
paying his share for being given a second chance at life. The cancer rides and benefits he signs
onto show that clearly. But you can ask him if he thinks he paid too much. According to your logic,
they should have withheld treatment until they saw what they could get him to pay, you know, test
the market...

>> >> > The general public fills arenas at any price if they're interested.
>> >>
>> >> Not true.
>> >>
>> >> > You want the general public that doesn't go to pay for those that do.
>> >>
>> >> Nope, I expect we all pay into the common coffer for education and arts and utilize it where
>> >> we wish. This type of subsidy is far more efficiant and costsaving than the alternative.
>>
>> > Cost saving is not the issue. Cost distribution is. Those who are not interested couldn't care
>> > less what it costs those who do care and don't want it to cost anything.
>>
>> Shall we return to the roads and highway system?
>>
>> >> > And the bias is that the less well off pay for the pleasures of the wine and cheese crowd.
>> >>
>> >> Since they do not share the same tax burden, your remark is in error.
>>
>> > They go even less than their tax share. Your remark is non-sequitur.
>>
>> Wrong, in fact, the filthy rich often make huge contributions (they get a tax break, cushy
>> special seats). The rest pay as they are able to afford and go accordingly. You ought get out and
>> see who is going to these things. I don't see any evidence that you have a clue who goes to
>> concerts, theater, ballet, etc.

> "The rest"? Most of "the rest" never go.

Oh, perhaps my clarity if failing me: the rest who attend. Is that better?

You really should stop digging if you want to get out of that hole.

>> >> >> > I expect others will voluntarily do the same.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The the Bushies won't do what you ask.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I object to money being taken at gunpoint for others' pet projects and so-called culture.
>> >> >> > If people don't care enough to voluntarily support it, it isn't really their culture, now
>> >> >> > is it?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Certainly not, in your case.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > The parasites should all starve and die (or get a job) and everyone else will be
>> >> >> >> > better off. Good grief, the depths they've sunk to and the lousy attitude that's been
>> >> >> >> > engendered by years of socialism and the sense of entitlement simply because they
>> >> >> >> > exist.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> How old are you?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Looking for the ad hominem are we? What is your IQ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 5. Now try and top that, if you can...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Sorry if that's the best you can do.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> At least I bought my bikes.
>> >>
>> >> > blah blah blah
>> >>
>> >> giggle, looks like you didn't quite make it to 5. But thanks for playing...

 

[David Ryan]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >>
> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> S. Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> > "Lindsay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >> >> >> >> > news:[email protected]...
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tour Director Sends Warning to Demonstrators
> >> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> NARBONNE, France (Reuters) - Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc on
> >> >> >> >> >> >> Wednesday warned demonstrators against disrupting the race.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > <<snip..>>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >> "If on the other hand people attack riders or try to stop the peloton, then we
> >> >> >> >> >> >> cannot guarantee anything. Security services will do their job and you know what
> >> >> >> >> >> >> I mean," he said.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > <<snip..>>
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > Heehee..wonder what he means by this?? Does anybody know if these artists are
> >> >> >> >> >> > employed by the government? What do they do exactly?
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > Seriously curious,
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Since you are: These are seasonal artists who are employed contractually to short
> >> >> >> >> >> term projects (festivals, specific tours, etc.) by those organizations. When not so
> >> >> >> >> >> employed, they are out of work. They have been able to collect unemployment
> >> >> >> >> >> compensation in the past when these opportunities were not available that allowed
> >> >> >> >> >> them to continue focusing and refining their abilities as artists with the hope of
> >> >> >> >> >> mainstream employment. For this reason, french aspiring artists with the technical
> >> >> >> >> >> credentials have been able to keep table waiting and temporary office work to a
> >> >> >> >> >> minimum. Chirac want s to curtail this. As a result the major french festivals of
> >> >> >> >> >> Avignon, Aix, etc are closed. Businesses are hurting and support for these
> >> >> >> >> >> festivals' futures are in doubt. For the communities who rely on this cultural
> >> >> >> >> >> tourism, this is a nightmare. Understandably, there is a great deal of worry and
> >> >> >> >> >> concern.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> > Scott..
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > IOW, they can't deal with real life and want somebody else to pay their upkeep. When
> >> >> >> >> > those other people decide they aren't worth it and keep their money, they decide to
> >> >> >> >> > demand they're owed a living.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Try and secure a better argument. When was the last time you supported a cultural
> >> >> >> >> institution?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > It's a great argument if you haven't been dulled your whole life by socialist
> >> >> >> > propaganda.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Well folks, I guess that answers that question, doesn't it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I support what I like and what interests me with my patronage.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> When the government withdraws funding, institutions raise tickets prices to attempt to
> >> >> >> cover the deficit. Prices reach the stratosphere and there goes the general public's
> >> >> >> ability to attend.
> >> >>
> >> >> > That's EXACTLY the problem - not enough general public attending.
> >> >>
> >> >> General public attendance is the highest it's ever been. You need to read up on this before
> >> >> jumping in.
> >>
> >> > I think we are talking about two different general publics. The general public that doesn't
> >> > go is the highest it's ever been too. But if you're right, why can't they pay for it?
> >>
> >> Because the demographics involved go way beyond your wine cheese brigades. It is like the
> >> cancer institute that Lance availed himself of. He couldn't pay for that either.
>
> > Actually he paid far more than his share.
>
> Actually, what he paid was a fraction of the cost of the care. The rest came out of taxpayer
> pockets. We aren't talking about his share. I bet Lance would tell you he isn't even close to
> paying his share for being given a second chance at life. The cancer rides and benefits he signs
> onto show that clearly. But you can ask him if he thinks he paid too much. According to your
> logic, they should have withheld treatment until they saw what they could get him to pay, you
> know, test the market...

What do you think his care cost?

> >> >> > The general public fills arenas at any price if they're interested.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not true.
> >> >>
> >> >> > You want the general public that doesn't go to pay for those that do.
> >> >>
> >> >> Nope, I expect we all pay into the common coffer for education and arts and utilize it where
> >> >> we wish. This type of subsidy is far more efficiant and costsaving than the alternative.
> >>
> >> > Cost saving is not the issue. Cost distribution is. Those who are not interested couldn't
> >> > care less what it costs those who do care and don't want it to cost anything.
> >>
> >> Shall we return to the roads and highway system?
> >>
> >> >> > And the bias is that the less well off pay for the pleasures of the wine and cheese crowd.
> >> >>
> >> >> Since they do not share the same tax burden, your remark is in error.
> >>
> >> > They go even less than their tax share. Your remark is non-sequitur.
> >>
> >> Wrong, in fact, the filthy rich often make huge contributions (they get a tax break, cushy
> >> special seats). The rest pay as they are able to afford and go accordingly. You ought get out
> >> and see who is going to these things. I don't see any evidence that you have a clue who goes to
> >> concerts, theater, ballet, etc.
>
> > "The rest"? Most of "the rest" never go.
>
> Oh, perhaps my clarity if failing me: the rest who attend. Is that better?

Juft a bit

That's exactly my point. They are not the ones paying the cost. If we're talking in one case of a
10% subsidy, they can easily pay. Where it is 90%, the whole thing is pointless.

> You really should stop digging if you want to get out of that hole.
>
> >> >> >> > I expect others will voluntarily do the same.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The the Bushies won't do what you ask.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I object to money being taken at gunpoint for others' pet projects and so-called
> >> >> >> > culture. If people don't care enough to voluntarily support it, it isn't really their
> >> >> >> > culture, now is it?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Certainly not, in your case.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > The parasites should all starve and die (or get a job) and everyone else will be
> >> >> >> >> > better off. Good grief, the depths they've sunk to and the lousy attitude that's
> >> >> >> >> > been engendered by years of socialism and the sense of entitlement simply because
> >> >> >> >> > they exist.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> How old are you?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Looking for the ad hominem are we? What is your IQ?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 5. Now try and top that, if you can...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Sorry if that's the best you can do.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> At least I bought my bikes.
> >> >>
> >> >> > blah blah blah
> >> >>
> >> >> giggle, looks like you didn't quite make it to 5. But thanks for playing...

 

[David Ryan]

Thach H Nguyen wrote:
>
> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > HOw about building the road in the first place, eh?
> >
> > I have several mountain bikes. What would I have needed a road for? (And I hardly go anywhere
> > anymore.)
>
> 'Dude', the first thing to do to get out of a hole is stop digging.

"Dude", I have answered every question put to me.

 

[David Ryan]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>
> David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >>
> >> "David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> > > >> >>
> >> > > >> >> The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> > Your point?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Your brilliant coverage of the origins of all these monuments was
> >> lacking
> >> > > >> this detail. I was sure you'd wish it included so as to show how no
> >> tax
> >> > > >> dollars were used.
> >> > >
> >> > > > The statue was paid for in France by a private lottery that raised $400,000. Sorry for
> >> > > > the omission.
> >> > >
> >> > > In part. But keep the details coming!
> >> >
> >> > Why don't you enlighten the world.
> >>
> >> There are no tax dollars spent in maintaining the Statue of Liberty, correct?
> >>
> >> K. Gringioni anti-tax fighter
>
> > You keep coming back around to exactly the problem, don't you
>
> Well, you got those big ugly monuments are over the land, those useless old cemetaries, those opry
> houses, already paid for. Now who's going to maintain them?

The people who pay to use them. There is an economic sense to it. If they were not build to be used,
they wouldn't need to be maintained. At least a sensible monument that is not build to be used would
have an endowment or the ability to elicit donations for its upkeep. If it faced that much apathy,
what difference would it make if it crumbled?

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> For bikers wondering about all of this and not realizing the impact, cancellation of these events
> is pretty much the same impact as when Celestial Seasonings and Coors pulled the rug out of the
> Red Zinger stage race and Trump abandoned the later called Tour DUpont. Once the sponsors fled
> (struck), the race was impossible to organize and international riders and teams quickly looked
> elsewhere for their events. As a result, there are no international cycling events here of
> stature.
>

Trump was never in it for the long term. Billy Packer (sports announcer) was able to talk him into
lending his name to the event to give it credibility and draw real sponsors like DuPont. AFAIK, he
didn't pay anything to have the event named TdT.

 

[Edward Waffle]

Kurgan Gringioni wrote in message

>Football stadiums for pro teams only house 8 regular season games/year.
It's
>almost as bad as agricultural and logging subsidies.

Almost indeed--but NOTHING is as bad as agricultural subsidies.

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"David Ryan" <[email protected]>
>
> I promise that I would gladly fill any pothole that I made. Since I never drove a car, that would
> be very few.

Perhaps not, but you use products and services that do use the roadways, so indirectly you did (and
still do) contribute to roadway construction and deterioration.

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I feel comforted knowing I learned from Martha Stewart how make my very own private ambulance with
> a quaint and quite loud handcranked siren

Wouldn't that be more up Graeme Obree's alley?

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"David Ryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Clovis Lark wrote:
> >
> > >> Because the demographics involved go way beyond your wine cheese
brigades.
> > >> It is like the cancer institute that Lance availed himself of. He couldn't pay for that
> > >> either.
> >
> > > Actually he paid far more than his share.
> >
> > Actually, what he paid was a fraction of the cost of the care. The rest came out of taxpayer
> > pockets. We aren't talking about his share. I bet Lance would tell you he isn't even close to
> > paying his share for being given a second chance at life. The cancer rides and benefits he signs
> > onto show that clearly. But you can ask him if he thinks he paid too much. According to your
> > logic, they should have withheld treatment
until
> > they saw what they could get him to pay, you know, test the market...
>
> What do you think his care cost?
>

Clovis, do you have health insurance?

What value do you put on the publicity that LANCE brought to the IU Med Center?

 

[Edward Waffle]

David Ryan wrote in message <[email protected]>...
>>> Well, you got those big ugly monuments are over the land, those useless
>> old cemetaries, those opry houses, already paid for. Now who's going to maintain them?
>
>The people who pay to use them. There is an economic sense to it. If they were not build to be
>used, they wouldn't need to be maintained. At least a sensible monument that is not build to be
>used would have an endowment or the ability to elicit donations for its upkeep. If it faced that
>much apathy, what difference would it make if it crumbled?

Indeed. I love opera. I attend the opera in Detroit, Chicago and New York City. I contribute money
to all three and have raised money for the Michigan Opera Theatre. But I don't expect those who
don't enjoy the lyric stage to help pay for the tickets I buy or to maintain the opera house.

I don't pay taxes to fund NASCAR, so why should the good old boys pay taxes so I can see and
hear Verdi?

 

[David Ryan]

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> "David Ryan" <[email protected]>
> >
> > I promise that I would gladly fill any pothole that I made. Since I never drove a car, that
> > would be very few.
>
> Perhaps not, but you use products and services that do use the roadways, so indirectly you did
> (and still do) contribute to roadway construction and deterioration.

Y'all really want to strain at this roadway thing. Even if I granted that public highways are the
best way to build and maintain thoroughfares, it has nothing to do with what most of this discussion
was about, which is direct subsidies to individuals like the french artists in question.

 

[Clovis Lark]

Carl Sundquist <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> For bikers wondering about all of this and not realizing the impact, cancellation of these events
>> is pretty much the same impact as when Celestial Seasonings and Coors pulled the rug out of the
>> Red Zinger stage race and Trump abandoned the later called Tour DUpont. Once the sponsors fled
>> (struck), the race was impossible to organize and international riders and teams quickly looked
>> elsewhere for their events. As a result, there are no international cycling events here of
>> stature.
>>

> Trump was never in it for the long term. Billy Packer (sports announcer) was able to talk him into
> lending his name to the event to give it credibility and draw real sponsors like DuPont. AFAIK, he
> didn't pay anything to have the event named TdT.

Doesn't change the point. It draws an exclamation point.