leg soreness cure?

Discussion in 'rec.sport.unicycling' started by ChangingLINKS.com, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. Unitik908 wrote:
    > *may i asked what beating your leg with a hammer would do?
    > Chase *


    The hammer theory:
    When I was in highschool, I was on the rowing team.
    (6 man! Leader of the engine room! Rock!)
    If you haven't tried it, rowing is intense. Moreso that even M-uni. It's
    a lot like climbing Jester Hill "all out." Races are short (8-15
    minutes) and participants expend all of their energy in that time.

    Anyway, I had a theory:
    If massages and stretching helps heal stressed muscles,
    then, stressing muscles helps heal bruised muscles.

    For rowing, that theory worked very well. I would stretch a lot before
    the race, more than anyone else. Next, I would take a metal-working
    hammer and lightly bruise my thighs, parts of my back, arms (and hit the
    rest of my body).

    A good way to get the mindset is to count (10-12 strikes). I would also
    try to act very tired (relaxed) before the race. (It was said that these
    behaviours were somewhat intimidating to the competitors - kinda like
    the oil-drinking in "Over the Top").

    With bruised muscles, I would begin the race. 8 minutes would go by.
    During the race, we'd all give it our best and out of 6-8 boats, we'd
    usually win.

    Immediately after the race, some people would throw up (or at least look
    like it). Most would slump in the boat. Some would be visibly crying.
    I'm not just talking about our boat, but others. I would feel "down" for
    about a minute or two. Sometimes I would take steroids immediately after
    the race to calm my breathing. (I'd use an asthma inhaler because I have
    asthma).

    Quickly, I would feel "normal." Not just "normal," but "better." The
    bruising was gone, and there was no cramping or stressed feeling. I
    would have "more" energy than before the race. I'd be full of glee and
    able to celebrate the win, while others seemed too tired to put the boat
    away.

    When I didn't hammer, I did not get the same results.
    (In April, I competed in a dance competition, and could not shake off
    the deep nervousness and "heavy" feeling until I "got violent," punched
    myself a bit and jumped around.)

    Perhaps this is why deep muscle massage seems to go with boxing, martial
    arts, cycling and other sports.
    Perhaps, I just need the mental "kickstart."

    I don't know why it works for me, just that it works.
    Now that I've had this problem, I will probably use the same technique
    when I go out to this trail again.


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  2. U-Turn

    U-Turn Guest

    Interesting...

    I've read about a top Iditasport competitor who, in order to avoid the
    "race shock" syndrome, would start "Iditasporting" a month ahead --
    sleep deprivation, same diet, body stressing, the works. So when the
    race took place she was not dealing with the "boundary conditions" of
    the race and the huge change in state.

    I did this a while ago in a minor way for a big backpacking trip by
    sleeping on the floor for a month before the trip. By the time the trip
    came around, I could sleep comfortably on a wooden floor, like in a
    trail lean-to.


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  3. U-Turn

    U-Turn Guest

    Interesting...

    I've read about a top Iditasport competitor who, in order to avoid the
    "race shock" syndrome, would start "Iditasporting" a month ahead --
    sleep deprivation, same diet, body stressing, the works. So when the
    race took place she was not dealing with the "boundary conditions" of
    the race and the huge change in state.

    I did this a while ago in a minor way for a big backpacking trip by
    sleeping on the floor for a month before the trip. By the time the trip
    came around, I could sleep comfortably on a wooden floor, like in a
    trail lean-to.


    --
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  4. U-Turn

    U-Turn Guest

    Interesting...

    I've read about a top Iditasport competitor who, in order to avoid the
    "race shock" syndrome, would start "Iditasporting" a month ahead --
    sleep deprivation, same diet, body stressing, the works. So when the
    race took place she was not dealing with the "boundary conditions" of
    the race and the huge change in state.

    I did this a while ago in a minor way for a big backpacking trip by
    sleeping on the floor for a month before the trip. By the time the trip
    came around, I could sleep comfortably on a wooden floor, like in a
    trail lean-to.


    --
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  5. U-Turn

    U-Turn Guest

    Interesting...

    I've read about a top Iditasport competitor who, in order to avoid the
    "race shock" syndrome, would start "Iditasporting" a month ahead --
    sleep deprivation, same diet, body stressing, the works. So when the
    race took place she was not dealing with the "boundary conditions" of
    the race and the huge change in state.

    I did this a while ago in a minor way for a big backpacking trip by
    sleeping on the floor for a month before the trip. By the time the trip
    came around, I could sleep comfortably on a wooden floor, like in a
    trail lean-to.


    --
    U-Turn - Cool water for the flame

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
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  6. tomblackwood

    tomblackwood Guest

    In a recent "Supplement of The Month" feature, Bicycling magazine had a
    positive review of a product called 'Sportlegs'
    (http://www.sportlegs.com), which contains lactate forms of calcium and
    magnesium. According to the write-up, the principle is that--when taken
    an hour before exercise--it pre-loads your bloodstream with lactate and
    tricks your muscles into thinking they don't need to make more, raising
    your lactate threshold and boosting performance. This is also supposed
    to help reduce post-exercise soreness, although the magazine's testers
    reported less beneficial results in this area, compared to the
    performance-enhancement element.

    Since chemicals have always been an important part of my life, I've
    decided to invest in a bottle and try it out. Will report back to this
    thread after I've done some of my longer training rides to prep for the
    'MS 150' (http://tinyurl.com/dtceu).

    In the meantime, one other practice I can recommend from direct
    experience is around maintaining a mix of both protein and carbs during
    longer rides, then ensuring you take in some of both within 30 minutes
    _after_ a heavy ride, so your muscles have fresh fuel for the
    re-building process. Recommended ratio from what I've read (and tried)
    is about 25% protein, 75% carb. Make sure you take in nutrition at
    least every hour during a long ride, and especially soon after one. My
    favorite post-ride replenishment is a vanilla yogurt with some fruit and
    nuts stirred in. For longer road rides, I also pack along a bottle of
    Boost or some similar liquid protein supplement, and use this to
    compliment the bars and gels.

    I think this works. Two weeks ago I did a 30 mile training ride on a
    relatively flat course. Piece of cake, but I didn't get to eat anything
    for a couple hours after the ride was done. I was super sore for the
    next couple days. The next weekend, I did a ride only slightly shorter,
    but physically much tougher with lots of climbs and descents. I focused
    on proper nutrition breaks during the ride, and took in the
    above-mentioned yogurt mix just after. While I had some "awareness" the
    next day, it was nothing compared to the soreness of the previous
    weekend.

    TB


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  7. Thanks for the tips.

    I know this is not going to seem credible . . .
    Tired of the malfunctioning legs (sometimes my left leg locks backwards,
    and I have to massage them before walking and such) I have spent hours
    trying to fix the problem.

    Just a moment ago, I tried to take my uni for a spin. Flat tire. :mad:
    I ended up taking the nearest bike for a spin around the block. The seat
    was way to low, and I made it a point to pedal pretty hard. As soon as I
    got off of the bike my legs felt 25% better. I can walk again?

    Tomorrow, I plan on putting down some miles on my uni if I can get the
    wheel fixed . . . thinking about taking Jagur's advice and buying 26"
    tube from Walmart (since our bikeshops never have 24" x 3").

    I believe the "cure" I am looking for (in this case) is more excercise.
    The "resting" thing isn't working quickly enough. I don't mind
    increasing the healing time, I just need to get back to normal
    functionality.


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  8. lancerfan119

    lancerfan119 Guest

    this SAME thing happened to me after doing a ride on july 4 w/ lots of
    descending, which is what i think makes my quads sore.
    i couldn't walk normally for a week, and sitting down and going down/up
    stairs i couldn't do w/o holding onto things

    even that knee locking thing happened when i walked! isn't it
    annoying?

    i just rode (2) 1000+ ft. descents at northstar yesterday (but i had a
    new brake, which helped), and i'm sore today, but stairs and chairs
    aren't a problem, and i haven't had the knee lock problem

    i'd be interested to hear what supplements people use for recovery after
    these rides and if they work

    By the way:
    This is ColDawg, because i can't sign out of Trey's account


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  9. S_Wallis

    S_Wallis Guest

    When I got back to riding, while still sore, I reinjured my knee
    slightly. That got me to thinking. When I had my knee injury and
    surgery, I learned how important strong quads are for the strength and
    stability of the knee joint. I very much think that doing an activity
    with severly overworked and injured quads could put you at greater risk
    for knee injury. I would like to hear what a sports doctor would have
    to say about that.

    Scott


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  10. > -Originally posted by ColDawg-
    > *even that knee locking thing happened when i walked! isn't it
    > annoying? *


    Yes it is far more annoying than the pain. It is the symptom of "weaker
    muscles" desribed in John Child's article. If you could not climb stair,
    I think your problem may have been worse (I don't know, because there
    are no stairs here at all). Eric L. and I both had trouble descending
    slopes. Walking up inclines (and stairlike pressure) was easier.

    Just about everyone I talked to locally took the position that there is
    no "recovery" method that will "work." They all took the position of
    prevention. After trying everything I could think of including a hammer,
    I am forced to agree.


    S_Wallis wrote:
    > *I would like to hear what a sports doctor would have to say about
    > that idea.
    >
    > Scott *


    Me too.
    The legs got a little "cold" after the ride last night for a few
    minutes, but now they are much improved.

    I'm happy with the "quicker healing."
    I'd like to hear the science behind the improvement.

    Keep in mind (Scott) that I was reeeaaalllly cautious not to "depend" on
    those muscles as I worked them out (injured). I was too afraid to try
    something like running or M-uni.

    I will try to avoid having this problem in the future by using the
    advice posted in this thread.

    I'm going to change the tube on my M-uni and drop in a few miles to see
    if things get better still.


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  11. Bob22b

    Bob22b Guest

    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Where did you hear about that rubbish?

    Bodybuilders can teach you a lot. Or I see that some people talked
    about cyclists and the like..

    Get sleep, 8-9 hours a night.
    Diet - Make sure you're eating a lot, protein, carbs, fats.
    You can also try active recovery. This is using a low amount of
    resistance to bring blood and vital nutrients into the muscle that will
    speed recovery. Go ride around on your uni at a relaxed pace, on a flat
    surface! Don't try to go hardcore here, it's just to get blood into the
    muscles and speed recovery.


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  12. Ken Cline

    Ken Cline Guest

    "tomblackwood" <[email protected]> writes:

    > ...Bicycling magazine had a positive review of a product ... which
    > contains lactate forms of calcium and magnesium. According to the
    > write-up, the principle is that--when taken an hour before
    > exercise--it pre-loads your bloodstream with lactate and tricks your
    > muscles into thinking they don't need to make more, raising your
    > lactate threshold and boosting performance. This is also supposed
    > to help reduce post-exercise soreness ...


    I don't see how lactate or electrolyte supplementation is going to
    reduce a problem which is almost certainly muscle damage due to
    overuse (I'm talking about the pain all along the muscle, not the
    sharp pain at the knee). It makes sense that this product got a less
    than glowing review for its ability to reduce soreness after exercise.
    If the supplement really works, I'd bet it could actually increase
    post-exercise sortness by allowing more muscle activity and consequent
    more damage.

    Regarding supplements aimed at "raising lactate threshold", I find it
    interesting to note that recent research suggests muscle acidosis
    (buildup of "lactic acid") may actually prevent muscle fatigue, rather
    thhan being the cause of it
    [http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/08/040820083818.htm].

    Anyway, the best cure for overuse is smart training. Muscles improve
    in strength and/or endurance best by challenging them without doing
    much much damage to them. Warmup, variety, periodization, yada yada.
    Injury is often best dealt with with NSAIDS for a few days, then light
    activity, light stretching, massage, good nutrition...

    Ken
     
  13. Ken Cline

    Ken Cline Guest

    "S_Wallis" <[email protected]ist.com> writes:

    > ... I learned how important strong quads are for the strength and
    > stability of the knee joint. I very much think that doing an activity
    > with severly overworked and injured quads could put you at greater risk
    > for knee injury.


    No doubt. Exercising with one injury exposes you to greater risk for
    a second injury. There is a similar risk when one muscle is developed
    disproportionally. In both cases, movement may not be properly
    stabilized, stressing other muscles, tendons, ligaments or joints.

    Ken
     
  14. Bob22b wrote:
    > *Where did you hear about that rubbish?
    >
    > Bodybuilders can teach you a lot. Or I see that some people talked
    > about cyclists and the like..
    >
    > Get sleep, 8-9 hours a night.
    > Diet - Make sure you're eating a lot, protein, carbs, fats.
    > You can also try active recovery. This is using a low amount of
    > resistance to bring blood and vital nutrients into the muscle that
    > will speed recovery. Go ride around on your uni at a relaxed pace, on
    > a flat surface! Don't try to go hardcore here, it's just to get blood
    > into the muscles and speed recovery. *



    Often times, I come up with theories on my own and test them out. Often
    times, I get results that differ from "main stream wisdom."
    I don't mind having my new (or different) ideas beaten down as
    "rubbish." Innovators always have (status quo) hecklars.

    As for your other advice, I have done them all. I have still failed to
    recover "quickly." I'm just a tad better off than yesterday.

    The most effective thing I have tried during this DOMS crisis is "using
    a low amount of resistance to bring blood and vital nutrients into the
    muscle."

    Unfortunately, the result is temporary. As soon as the muscle cools down
    again it grows weak and painful.


    If you see me walking inclines in the future . . . just know I'm trying
    to avoid more DOMS days.


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  15. tomblackwood

    tomblackwood Guest

    ChangingLINKS.com wrote:
    > *Often times, I come up with theories on my own and test them out. I
    > don't mind having my new (or different) ideas beaten down as
    > "rubbish." Innovators always have (status quo) hecklars. *


    Drew I agree with all of that, although I think Bobtututube and Ken may
    have been crapping on my ideas, not your's.

    To Bob's point, there are some things you can learn from body builders
    over and above how to really mis-treat your body in the interest of a
    competition. One book I read a while ago which I found very informative
    is called "Power Eating" by Susan Kleiner. Had some very practical
    information on how the right nutrition can fuel strength and endurance,
    while also de-bunking the Atkins hype. Not really about body building
    per se, but about strength training, gaining muscle, losing fat. Don't
    know if it's a "buyer", but it's worth checking out at the Lib in my
    opinion.


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  16. tomblackwood wrote:
    > *One book I read a while ago which I found very informative is called
    > "Power Eating" by Susan Kleiner. Had some very practical information
    > on how the right nutrition can fuel strength and endurance, while also
    > de-bunking the Atkins hype. *



    I am a big fan of the Atkins Hype. Right NOW I am doing a modified
    Atkins diet. I started the day after the DOMS. I realized that when I
    was 12 pounds lighter than I am now, I was a better rider. I also like
    the short and extreme crash diet because it has taught me to be a better
    rider. (Ever do M-uni with no carbs? . . . you learn to conserve). I
    have also blasted out 16 and 20 mile road distances on the no carbs.
    Once I dropped 12+ pounds in 3 days and most of the loss was
    sustained.
    I know that if I drop down to 210, keep training while on the diet, and
    then start eating carbs again I'll dramatically increase my endurance,
    skill, and climbing ability within a month.
    I've done it before, and enjoyed everything except the locked stomach
    muscles that Eric L. witnessed . . .

    I admit that I have yet to learn how much food I need to eat to stay at
    my "Internet ideal weight." Seems like I'm always losing or gaining.

    I get other benefits as well, I feel better, I'm mentally stronger, I
    get insomnia because of the increase in energy (which good for
    completing projects) and my body feels "stable and healthy."




    /Anti-Aktins people always claim that the diet is unhealthy if it is
    sustained. Who cares? I never hold it more than 2-4 weeks . . . and
    that's enough time to drop the weight. If fasting for 2-4 weeks is too
    much, go talk to the starving children . . . cause I sure ain't
    listenin'!


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  17. tomblackwood

    tomblackwood Guest

    All the more reason you should read the book, if only for another
    perspective from a known nutritionist.

    If you like shocking your system, that's fine, but relying on a 2-4 week
    atkins crash periodically to lose weight is just a longer-cycle
    demonstration of the binge/purge syndrome. Better to really arm yourself
    with deep exercise/nutrition knowledge (and habits), and avoid needing
    to shock your system like that to lose weight. It's like the
    bodybuilders dehydrating themselves to "tone up" before a competition.
    Sure they lose weight and their muscles stand out, but in doing so they
    ignore the basic fact that CELLS LIKE HYDRATION. Similarly, bodies LIKE
    a protein-rich diet, with a healthy allocation of complex carbs.

    So Bob and Ken, you've got Drew and I fighting now. Happy???


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  18. tomblackwood wrote:
    > *If you like shocking your system, that's fine, but relying on a 2-4
    > week atkins crash periodically to lose weight is just a longer-cycle
    > demonstration of the binge/purge syndrome.
    >
    > So Bob and Ken, you've got Drew and I fighting now. Happy??? *


    I could read the book, and you could call me an "Olson twin." It
    wouldn't matter.

    Some people smoke. Some people beat their legs with a hammer. Some
    people are overweight. Some people do crack. Some people ride unicycles
    on the side of a mountain until their legs are sore for days.

    To each his own.

    There is no conflict between you and I.
    Conflict could exist within you (in thinking I am not exactly how I wish
    to be and ironically wanting to change that).

    I got sold on the Atkins diet, not by Atkins, but by the way my body
    feels.

    Oh, in case you care, I binge/purge just about EVERYTHING.
    And, more importantly, I'm OK with that. It's my nature.

    Even as I sit here unable to walk, I look forward to the next time I run
    that trail with Eric. (Course this time, I'll try whippin' out the
    hammer to prepare for muscle soreness)

    Sick. :cool:


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  19. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    The Cycling Performance Tips web page has a section on 'Nutrition Tips'
    (http://www.cptips.com/toc.htm#nuttips) and an article on 'Weight
    Control' (http://www.cptips.com/weight.htm).

    I could stand to loose a few pounds but I'm bad with any kind of a
    structured diet. I like to eat whatever and stuff that's easy to fix.
    A little less weight would help the unicycling, especially the muni
    riding.

    Tonight I was on the tomato soup instead of pizza diet. :)
    I don't know how long I can stay on that diet though.


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