Leg Suck: better/worse on different types?

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by x, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. x

    x Guest

    I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e
    inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."

    But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting a broken leg out of it
    are lower on some than others.

    Comments?
    -----------------------
    Pete Cresswell
     
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  2. "(Pete Cresswell)" skrev...
    [q1]> I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e[/q1]
    [q1]> inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting a broken leg out of it[/q1]
    [q1]> are lower on some than others.[/q1]

    You know, you can get run over by crossing a road. Does that make you stay indoors?

    Legsuck is not as common as you make it, just like flying over the handlebars on a DF isn't. (once
    for me in 30 years)

    If you are that concerned get a trike and some good clipless pedals.

    Mikael
     
  3. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:25:26 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e
    >inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."

    Clipless pedals and proper selection of cleats means the small risk of leg suck becomes a negligible
    risk, as I read it. I changed from the silver dual-release SPD cleats to black single-release
    M51/52s and my feet stay firmly on the pedals.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  4. Derek Swift

    Derek Swift Guest

    > I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e
    > inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."

    Hmmm...leg suck is not terribly common. I have never had it. If you are worried about it, get
    clipless pedals and shoes and have a go at it. I think you are discounting the bent experience based
    on a rare occurence.

    Derek
     
  5. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e
    > inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."
    >
    > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting a broken leg out of it
    > are lower on some than others.
    >
    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell

    Hey Pete, don't sweat it. Like ALL things internet, the rarer the event the louder the talk. As
    said, this is not something that is "inevitable". Take the LEARNED advice and get and use clipless
    pedals. no problem. It IS dangerous, but mostly to folks that don't about it and thus don't take
    measures to prevent it. I'll still ride without clipping occasional or for part of a ride if my feet
    get numb. Then I just make sure I look out for upcoming bumps and either coast over them or just
    make sure to pay attention to holding tension in my legs so they wouldn't drop if my feet came off
    the pedals. That and not going "all out" cranking without being clipped. That will remove 99.9% of
    any potential problems.
     
  6. Actually getting a broken leg would be nice compared to the Hip damage you'll get as your leg passes
    beneath your seat. If U ride a trike, stay clipped in or use Power Grips. Have seen DF type Toe
    Clips used on a trike, but I would not risk using these....better to be locked in securely.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------
    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought
    "Nope,
    > clumsy as I am, it'e inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play
    the
    > game."
    >
    > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting
    a
    > broken leg out of it are lower on some than others.
    >
    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell
     
  7. Doug Huffman

    Doug Huffman Guest

    I ride a low BB 'bent. My foot has come off the pedal a few times but not so much as touched the
    pavement, let alone gotten 'sucked'. It has been my suspicion that low BBs are less susceptable than
    hi BB to leg-suck. I am only now after 20,000 miles going to clipless.

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought
    "Nope,
    > clumsy as I am, it'e inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play
    the
    > game."
    >
    > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting
    a
    > broken leg out of it are lower on some than others.
    >
    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell
     
  8. Ren Hoek

    Ren Hoek Guest

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... <snip>
    > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting
    a
    > broken leg out of it are lower on some than others.
    >
    <snip>

    Pete- Having first-hand (er...leg) experience with a broken leg while riding my Trek R200, I'd say
    I'm older & wiser now. My accident was on wet pavement, going around a sharp turn too fast,
    without being clipped in. I've since switched over to clipless pedals to keep my feet outta harm's
    way, as well as overhauled my brakes to be able to stop on a dime (or at least slow down on a
    sloped sharp curve).

    On a SWB with a high bottom bracket, you've got exactly enough time when the back end slips out to
    get your foot down on the ground, but NOT enough to actually shift your weight up onto that foot for
    balance. The result is getting your leg bent back/sideways at an silly angle.

    I'm not going to say "Don't worry, be happy, get Bent" - that's something you'll have to figure out
    yourself - believe me, while I was sitting around last summer waiting for bone cells to re-grow, I
    was trying to figure out how to afford a new Greenspeed GTO to avoid going through all that
    again...(still haven't ruled it out!) I also searched the 'net at the time to see if this was a
    common occurance in the 'bent world, and ya know what? I really couldn't find much (if ANY)
    discussion of it at all.

    Good luck- Kevin
     
  9. > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting
    a
    > broken leg out of it are lower on some than others.
    >
    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell

    Many years ago I was riding my road bike in the wet & out of the saddle in an agressive maner, as
    the mood sometimes took me, without toe clips & straps (b4 clipless pedals). Just as I reached max
    velocity my R foot slipped off the pedal, my foot hit the ground v.hard...the next thing to happen
    was a first for me and a painful surprise as the serated rat trap pedal embeded itself in my achiles
    tendon...my next ride was with clips and straps...6 weeks later after I recovered...seems one ain't
    safe on anything..
    P.S. I'm off to The Netherlands on Sunday next to try some bents & beer...

    >Clipless pedals and proper selection of cleats means the small risk of leg suck becomes a
    >negligible risk, as I read it. I changed from the silver dual-release SPD cleats to black
    >single-release M51/52s and my feet stay firmly on the pedals.

    >Guy

    Thanx for the info, was not sure if I was gonna use look or SPD, if I use SPD I'll be sure to change
    the cleats...
     
  10. Derek

    Derek Guest

    Pete,

    I , have followed bent accident injuries on this NG for about 5 years, and seen about 5-6 posts
    reporting serious leg suck injuries. I have come close to leg suck a couple of times at speed, and
    done it a few times on an off-road bent riding single track at very low speed with no serious
    injury. One of the most horrid leg suck injuries I read about happened to the CEO of the ill fated
    Backbent company while riding a Blackbent prototype just before they went into production. He was
    riding in tennis shoes with no clips and dropped a foot and crashed. He had a slow recovery and it
    probably did not help the success (not) of the venture.

    Here is my take on the risks.

    1) Seats that have metal side rails like Haluzak, Lightning, Longbikes, etc. have the greatest
    potential for serious injury because your leg can be trapped inside the rail with nowhere to go
    but under the bike.

    2) Seats with bottom cushions like RANS, BikeE, many Visions, Easy Racers, etc. have less serious
    injury potential because it is likely that a dropped leg will deflect to the side. This can knock
    you off the bike (with resulting serious injury or death) but it is still preferable to scenario
    #1 described above. I dropped a foot on a BikeE once on a fast descent and it knocked me almost
    off the bike before I regained control and came to a stop. I was very lucky, it happened so fast
    that all of my reactions where automatic. I have been very careful about leg suck since then.

    3) I personally feel safest vis-a-vis legsuck on euro hard shell seats because more abdominal
    muscles come into play to control and stabilize your legs from an accidental drop while riding
    and because they have no seat rails.

    4) Practice a couple of accidental foot drops while stationary to see what it feels like. Train
    yourself to avoid ever feeling like that while moving on your bent. See what sort of movments set
    you up for foot drop and be aware of them. Wear ankle protectors, AXO company makes a good item
    called "Ankle Biters".

    5) Good luck. Control your speed. Leg suck is a serious concern, but it is only one of the many very
    bad things that can happen to you whilst riding any bike. In the last 5 years, I have personally
    seen far more bad accidents resulting from upright riders doing botched "bunny hop" maneuvers.
    One guy actually had his clips accidently release and was vaulted over the handlebars while his
    front wheel dripped into a pothole. Ouch!

    Cheers, Derek

    "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    (major snippage)

    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell
     
  11. Pete The best math lesson I ever learned was at the first day of high school metal shop. The black
    board equation went like this: man + machine X motion = mayhem The teacher wanted us to be sure we
    understood that ANY machine can cause injury and what can we do to minimize this. Looking at
    published data for emergency room visits related to bicycle injuries 80% are upper body, head,
    shoulders, arms. These kind of injuries are rare on a recumbent. Common injury on recumbents are
    ankles and lower legs. A more survivable injury. An average of 800 people die on bikes each year but
    in the 20 years I've been into recumbents there has been only 3 (small community, word spreads
    quick) Now days when I ride an upright it feels very unsafe. Feels like a small bump will make me
    come off head first. My opinion is that one of the reasons that recumbents haven't "caught on" is
    they aren't Xtreme enough. They don't fly through the air up side down and backwards like all the
    popular sports of these modern times. They are a low risk sport. Try some recumbents you'll like em.
    Happy cycling Steve "Speedy" Delaire

    "(Pete Cresswell)" wrote:

    > I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought "Nope, clumsy as I am, it'e
    > inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't play the game."
    >
    > But looking at different configs, it seems like the probability of getting a broken leg out of it
    > are lower on some than others.
    >
    > Comments?
    > -----------------------
    > Pete Cresswell

    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
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  12. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    > If you are that concerned get a trike and some good clipless pedals.
    >
    > Mikael

    A trike isn't ANY different in that regard.
     
  13. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    "Doug Huffman" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > I ride a low BB 'bent. My foot has come off the pedal a few times but not so much as touched the
    > pavement, let alone gotten 'sucked'. It has been my suspicion that low BBs are less susceptable
    > than hi BB to leg-suck. I am only now after 20,000 miles going to clipless.

    I would agree with that,as the higher the BB the more you have to support/hold your legs while
    peddling. Plus just the body angle itself would lend itself to not "dropping" a leg if it comes off.
     
  14. Guy Chapman wrote:

    > Clipless pedals and proper selection of cleats means the small risk of leg suck becomes a
    > negligible risk, as I read it

    To which I would add:

    1. For additional security, choose a machine on which unclipping is something you do once per
    journey - whether a trike or a bike low enough to put a hand down.
    2. Take care on slippery off-camber corners which incorporate pedestrian crossings and manhole
    covers. No, I didn't get leg suck there, but there's been a few foot-down moments
    inna-speedway-stylee on that particular corner...

    Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:25:26 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I was close to getting a 'bent. Then I read about leg suck and thought
    "Nope,
    > >clumsy as I am, it'e inevitable....If you can't afford to lose, don't
    play the
    > >game."
    >
    > Clipless pedals and proper selection of cleats means the small risk of leg suck becomes a
    > negligible risk, as I read it. I changed from the silver dual-release SPD cleats to black
    > single-release M51/52s and my feet stay firmly on the pedals.
    >
    > Guy
    > ===
    > ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    > dynamic DNS permitting)
    > NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    > work. Apologies.
     
  15. "MLB" skrev...
    >
    > >
    > > If you are that concerned get a trike and some good clipless pedals.
    > >
    > > Mikael
    >
    > A trike isn't ANY different in that regard.

    Hmm... so you clip out at trafficlights and other stops on a trike? Interesting.

    M.
     
  16. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:35:23 -0000, "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >1. For additional security, choose a machine on which unclipping is something you do once per
    > journey - whether a trike or a bike low enough to put a hand down.

    But Dave, we all know that you can put a hand down on a wedgie, with your arms!

    >2. Take care on slippery off-camber corners which incorporate pedestrian crossings and manhole
    > covers.

    Oh, don't remind me. What twat puts metal covers in the roads smack in the middle of the sodding
    junctions?

    >No, I didn't get leg suck there, but there's been a few foot-down moments inna-speedway-stylee on
    >that particular corner...

    Too bloody right. When the back end slides on a bent is slides big style.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  17. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:02:30 -0600, MLB <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> It has been my suspicion that low BBs are less susceptable than hi BB to leg-suck.

    >I would agree with that,as the higher the BB the more you have to support/hold your legs while
    >peddling.

    I don't have to support or hold my legs even when riding with platform pedals and trainers - the
    pressure of the feet on the pedal does the work. But I still prefer clipless.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  18. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "MLB" skrev...
    >>
    >> >
    >> > If you are that concerned get a trike and some good clipless pedals.
    >> >
    >> > Mikael
    >>
    >> A trike isn't ANY different in that regard.
    >
    > Hmm... so you clip out at trafficlights and other stops on a trike? Interesting.
    >
    > M.
    >
    hmmm, nope, don't on my two wheeler either. :)
     
  19. Mlb

    Mlb Guest

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    >
    > "MLB" skrev...
    >>
    >> >
    >> > If you are that concerned get a trike and some good clipless pedals.
    >> >
    >> > Mikael
    >>
    >> A trike isn't ANY different in that regard.
    >
    > Hmm... so you clip out at trafficlights and other stops on a trike? Interesting.
    >
    > M.

    I'm interested in how you would drop a leg and run over when stopped??
     
  20. "MLB" skrev...
    > I'm interested in how you would drop a leg and run over when stopped??

    I could probably manage it. ;-)

    No I just meant that since legsuck involves your foot coming off the pedal a trike would help a
    great deal. You don't have to clip out at said stops and thus the risk of a bad clip-in when
    accelerating is gone. Also falling over while riding (due to a flat or whatever) and in the process
    getting legsuck or at least breaking a foot badly as a few unfortunate people here have done is less
    likely too.

    So that would leave us with accidental clipouts while riding along and good clipless pedals and, in
    the case of Shimano, sticking to singlerelease cleats will help a lot in that department.

    I haven't really had a problem with legsuck on two wheels and still think being nervous about it
    shouldn't keep you away from recumbents - but if someone _is_ nervous a trike might be good. However
    thats only my humble opinion.

    Mikael
     
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