LEGAL: Road incident, need advice on getting compensation

I was involved in an incident (ok, an act of cretinous stupidity) on Friday when a [email protected]#$ in a
mini-van thought it would be really clever to pull out of a parking space about 1 second in front of
me, cross two lanes of the road and then turn right "through" me (on my bike) into the street on the
right as I happened to pass it.

His excuse: "you were going really fast". Duh, no shit, sherlock, we were on a downhill (and no, I
certainly wasn't breaking the speed limit). And the above is an admission that he did see me first,
so no excuse.

I'm quite proud that the first thing I yelled after reappraising the direction of "up" after skiting
along the street was "Witnesses! I need witnesses!" although I was a bit too befuddled to do
everything else right.

Luckily, I'm ok (apart from a couple of gashes in my elbow and a still very sore bum), but the [email protected]#$
resulted in ripping a hole in my jacket.

Further luckily, a parking warden and two other witnesses saw the incident, and once the police
finally turned up I gave them all the details.

Moronic motorist left the scene (despite me telling him I needed his details: should I have
attempted to detain/restrain him?) straight after the incident after checking I wasn't dead but we
got the number and description of the vehicle. He came back about 15 minutes later 'to see if I'd
calmed down' (yeh, right mate, you could have [email protected]#$ing killed me) and left a name and number with the
parking warden (which she gave to the police, and I didn't get), and then buggered off again for
good, despite me again warning him that he was required by law to give his details to the police. (I
am right in this aren't I?)

I'm ok, and as far as I can see, the bike's ok, but the [email protected]#$'s paying for my jacket, for sure.

I was still in a bit of a dither when the police took the details from me, so I'm not sure how this
all works. The police took notes from me as to what happened: are they supposed to give you a copy?
Are they supposed to give you a contact name and number, an incident number, etc?

[OK, spooky, the police have just now phoned me back saying that our stories check out (oh well, at
least he admits it), but (hmm?) they don't think they have enough to press charges.

The officers who spoke to me at the time basically said as much themselves: with the courts overrun
with 'major' crimes, the Procurator Fiscals basically don't have the time to deal with 'trivial'
incidents where there is no real injury (what a lovely city we live in).

The police say they will get the driver to phone me to sort things out.]

However, I've got no experience of insurance and the like, how do I make sure I get the money from
him? The police say the guy sounds apologetic (I guess you would faced with the police) and will
probably stump up out of pocket, but it could have been far worse, I could have broken bones or
worse - my bike could have been damaged . But what if he doesn't stump up willingly?

The police say it's a civil matter and I'd have to get a lawyer.

Can anybody offer me any useful advice here? (I'm currently on incapacity benefit/income support if
that makes any difference)

I am currently a CTC member, so I'll see if I can dig out the details for their legal advice folks..

Thanks,

David.

 

If you are a member of CTC - get on the phone to them - your membership entitles you to free
legal help.

If not - get a hold of a copy of Cycling Weekly and Cycling Plus - in the ads are contact details of
solicitors who specialise in cycling cases.

Best of luck, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!

Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd
~~~~~~~~~~

 

David Marsh wrote:

>Can anybody offer me any useful advice here? (I'm currently on incapacity benefit/income support if
>that makes any difference)

I was knocked off my bike in a bus/cycle lane by a right turning motorist. Buckled my back wheel.
The driver gave me her name, address and phone number but no insurance details, and a signed
confirmation that she would pay for the damage to my bike. I reported the accident to the police who
saw the driver at her place of work. The called me back, gave me the incident number, and confirmed
that she admitted responsibility.

I have posted two letters to her and made two phone calls - but no luck in recovering the cost of
repairing the real wheel. I've contacted the Police so I could write to her insurance company. But
the daft idiots who interviewed me and her decided that as there was no injury they wouldn't check
her insurance details - duh! That's why I called them in the first place.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that I have to re-report the accident, and the police will
interview her again to get her insurance details. They will then pass the details on to me to
recover the money from her insurance company.

However... if she has no insurance (as I suspect) the police will prosecute, but I will have to go
through the civil courts to get my money.

My advice to you is press the police now for the driver's insurance details. It may save a lot of
agro later if you have them.
--
remove remove to reply

 

David Marsh wrote:
> [snipped]

Sorry to hear about that, David. :-(

> Can anybody offer me any useful advice here?

I'd say try to get hold of his insurance details (through the police?) if you haven't already as if
he starts to make things difficult then you can always talk to the insurance.

I'd also get photos of your injuries and the damage to the jacket, and it's worth getting the
injuries assessed just in case you've missed something or later find that they're causing you
more problems.

> I am currently a CTC member, so I'll see if I can dig out the details for their legal
> advice folks..

Definately worth making use of that.

Simon

 

> I am currently a CTC member, so I'll see if I can dig out the details for their legal
> advice folks..
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> David.
>

Get the bike repaired, buy replacements for any damaged clothing and keep the reciepts. Then wait
and see what response you get from the driver. If he pays up then thats it. You can't claim for an
injury you might have suffered. Being realistic if all you have suffered is a couple of gashes then
the hassle of a legal case is probbaly not worth the bother. Another path that might help. Are you a
member of a trade union? Some unions extend legal cover for members beyond the work place. Some have
a option that they give legal cover for an hour before and after you arrive and depart from you
place of work. It gives you legal cover for most journeys to and from home.

alan brown

 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:30:54 +0100, David Marsh <[email protected]> wrote:

>Moronic motorist left the scene (despite me telling him I needed his details: should I have
>attempted to detain/restrain him?)

I should say not - but I would have gently reminded him that it is an offence to leave the scene of
an accident without giving insurance details.

<http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/24.shtml#260>

>I'm ok, and as far as I can see, the bike's ok, but the [email protected]#$'s paying for my jacket, for sure.

And so he should. He should also be charged with driving without due care.

>I was still in a bit of a dither when the police took the details from me, so I'm not sure how this
>all works. The police took notes from me as to what happened: are they supposed to give you a copy?
>Are they supposed to give you a contact name and number, an incident number, etc?

You shuld be able to get an incident number, and the driver's insurance details if he failed to give
them to you (you have reasonable grounds for requiring them)

>[OK, spooky, the police have just now phoned me back saying that our stories check out (oh well, at
>least he admits it), but (hmm?) they don't think they have enough to press charges.

They what? I would ask them what further evidence they need to have the clueless tosser charged with
DWDC. My friendly neighbourhood copper would have no problem with charging the bloke.

Guy
===
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[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

Gonzalez wrote in scot.general: about: Re: LEGAL: Road incident, need advice on getting compensation

> I was knocked off my bike in a bus/cycle lane by a right turning motorist. Buckled my back wheel.
> The driver gave me her name,

Sorry to hear it, but then, there are a lot of dumb motorists out there.. :-(

> address and phone number but no insurance details, and a signed confirmation that she would pay
> for the damage to my bike.

Wow, that's really good of them.. (until you get to the 'but' of course..)

> the daft idiots who interviewed me and her decided that as there was no injury they wouldn't check
> her insurance details - duh! That's why I called them in the first place.

Hmm, I wonder if the same has happened to me..?

> Anyway, the long and short of it is that I have to re-report the accident, and the police will
> interview her again to get her insurance details. They will then pass the details on to me to
> recover the money from her insurance company.

OK. So am I being fed crap from the police that the DPA prevents them from forwarding details of the
driver to me?

> However... if she has no insurance (as I suspect) the police will prosecute, but I will have to go
> through the civil courts to get my money.

What a bugger. I really can't be arsed with all this hassle..

> My advice to you is press the police now for the driver's insurance details. It may save a lot of
> agro later if you have them.

Cheers, will try to do so. Of course, the police haven't given me a contact number for themselves
and I'll need to wait for them to get back to me. Is this normal, or just Strathclyde Police being
their normal (for most of them, it seems (not all of them, though)) grumpy selves?

I'll have to dig them up in the phonebook and/or chain myself to their front desk, perhaps..

--
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begin Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |
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[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

Simon Proven wrote in scot.general: about: Re: LEGAL: Road incident, need advice on getting
compensation

> Sorry to hear about that, David. :-(

Hi Simon, thanks for the sympathy.. ;-) Sorry, I must contact you for a proper blether at some
point soon..

>> Can anybody offer me any useful advice here?
>
> I'd say try to get hold of his insurance details (through the police?) if you haven't already as
> if he starts to make things difficult then you can always talk to the insurance.

Well, the police seem unwilling to give me any details, at this point, claiming the DPA
prevents this..?

> I'd also get photos of your injuries

My injuries really do seem to be trivial (luckily). Duly went (under my own steam) to the hospital
to have them noted by the docs, and patched up. I think me hitting the van absorbed most of the
impact ;-) So at least the incident has been officially noted there.

> and the damage to the jacket,

Well, it's hanging up and I can't wear it as it has a large hole in the elbow. I'm really pissed
off as it was my favourite jacket, and as my 'going-out' jacket would look cack with a patched
sleeve. <grumble>

> and it's worth getting the injuries assessed just in case you've missed something or later find
> that they're causing you more problems.

I guess the fact that I made my own way to the hospital and leapt onto the bed no probs, the docs
probably didn't think I had anything to worry about..

If I do start experiencing any new aches and pains I can presumably go back to my doctor and
report it.

>> I am currently a CTC member, so I'll see if I can dig out the details for their legal advice
>> folks..
>
> Definately worth making use of that.

Email duly sent.

Catch up with you soon, hopefully.

Cheers,

David.

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[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

Alan Brown wrote in scot.general: about: Re: LEGAL: Road incident, need advice on getting
compensation

> Get the bike repaired, buy replacements for any damaged clothing and keep the reciepts.

I can't afford that right now: I literally have no spare money. I'm currently on the sick (high
blood pressure), and have just been advised that the Housing Benefit folks won't be paying all of my
rent: I was on the way to their office to speak to them, ironically. As you can imagine, this is the
*last* thing I need (especially for my stress levels) right now..

> Then wait and see what response you get from the driver. If he pays up then thats it.

If he pays up, I'm happy. Although if the PF doesn't decide to prosecute, hopefully the police at
least will find some way to inspire fear in him. I'm not especially vindictive, but I do think we
need to hammer home to Jo Careless-Driver that while no real harm may have been done this time, the
next time they f*ck up, somebody might be KSI'd.

> You can't claim for an injury you might have suffered. Being realistic if all you have suffered is
> a couple of gashes then the hassle of a legal case is probbaly not worth the bother.

Yeah, but I think it's only fair to get a new jacket out of this. That's all I want.

> Another path that might help. Are you a member of a trade union? Some unions extend legal cover
> for members beyond the work place. Some have a option that they give legal cover for an hour
> before and after you arrive and depart from you place of work. It gives you legal cover for most
> journeys to and from home.

That's a useful piece of advice. Unfortunately, I wasn't working in a union-able job before I became
sick, but that's another long story of being screwed over in itself..

--
David Marsh, <reply-to-email is valid at time of writing> | Glasgow, Scotland. [en, fr, (de)] | |
begin Learn usenet and netiquette: read news:news.announce.newusers |
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I was in involved in an accident similar to yours. I contacted a "No win No Fee" legal people from
the back of cycling plus. They said that if I have not broken any bones then there is no point in
trying to get any money out of the driver. My insurance company said that even though the woman
driver admitted in not seeing me (I had a RonHill hi viz jacket on) at the scene with no witnesses I
can't prove a thing and it would cost me too much in legal fees to take her to court. Her insurance
company tried to get me to pay for the damage to the front of her car but I put it to them that if
they try that it means she hit me so she is in the wrong. they dropped it but would not admit fault
or pay for the bike. IT SUCKS BIG TIME. The only way you are going to get anything is if they give
you cash at the time of the accident just to keep you off there back.

the end. "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:30:54 +0100, David Marsh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Moronic motorist left the scene (despite me telling him I needed his details: should I have
> >attempted to detain/restrain him?)
>
> I should say not - but I would have gently reminded him that it is an offence to leave the scene
> of an accident without giving insurance details.
>
> <http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/24.shtml#260>
>
> >I'm ok, and as far as I can see, the bike's ok, but the [email protected]#$'s paying for my jacket, for sure.
>
> And so he should. He should also be charged with driving without due care.
>
> >I was still in a bit of a dither when the police took the details from me, so I'm not sure how
> >this all works. The police took notes from me as to what happened: are they supposed to give you
> >a copy? Are they supposed to give you a contact name and number, an incident number, etc?
>
> You shuld be able to get an incident number, and the driver's insurance details if he failed to
> give them to you (you have reasonable grounds for requiring them)
>
> >[OK, spooky, the police have just now phoned me back saying that our stories check out (oh well,
> >at least he admits it), but (hmm?) they don't think they have enough to press charges.
>
> They what? I would ask them what further evidence they need to have the clueless tosser charged
> with DWDC. My friendly neighbourhood copper would have no problem with charging the bloke.
>
> Guy
> ===
> ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
> dynamic DNS permitting)
> NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
> work. Apologies.

 

David Marsh wrote:

>OK. So am I being fed crap from the police that the DPA prevents them from forwarding details of
>the driver to me?

You may have to put in a written request for name and insurance details. They probably won't give
out any other information.

>Of course, the police haven't given me a contact number for themselves and I'll need to wait for
>them to get back to me. Is this normal, or just Strathclyde Police being their normal (for most of
>them, it seems (not all of them, though)) grumpy selves?

As long as you have the name of the force and a reference number you should be OK.
--
remove remove to reply

 

"Just meeeeeee." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was in involved in an accident similar to yours. I contacted a "No win No Fee" legal people from
> the back of cycling plus. They said that if I have not broken any bones then there is no point in
> trying to get any money out of the driver.

That's not strictly true. What they meant was, there's no point in _them_ trying to get any money
out of the driver. For a court to award legal costs in personal injury matters, the injury
compensation needs to be more than £1,000, which is the "small claims" limit for PI work. If you
didn't break any bones and only suffered minor scratches and bruises then the level of compensation
you'd be likely to get for them won't rise to the all-important £1k mark.

You could have still tried suing the driver yourself under the small claims procedure for the cost
of repair to your bike, damage to clothing and a sum for the aggravation, inconvenience, pain and
suffering. That fact that there were no witnesses is not fatal to a claim succeeding, it just makes
it more difficult. You would have to rely on your word against the driver's, and any inferences that
might logically be drawn from the undisputed facts about the accident. It would come down to who the
Court believed on the day. It might also be that if the claim was only for a few £00's, the insurers
would back down simply on the summons being issued - if they wanted to defend the claim they would
have to instruct solicitors at their own cost and they could end up spending more in legal fees than
you are trying to claim. If they don't appear in Court to defend, you automatically win.

Be realistic but don't let the lack of legal representation or stubbornness and brinkmanship of
insurers defeat you before you even start.

Rich

 

thanks for that Rich. If it happens again I will pursue it.

--
Hardcore... ......inert, largely useless bricks

"Richard Goodman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Just meeeeeee." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I was in involved in an accident similar to yours. I contacted a "No win No Fee" legal people
> > from the back of cycling
plus.
> > They said that if I have not broken any bones then there is no point in trying to get any money
> > out of the driver.
>
> That's not strictly true. What they meant was, there's no point in _them_ trying to get any money
> out of the driver. For a court to award legal
costs
> in personal injury matters, the injury compensation needs to be more than £1,000, which is the
> "small claims" limit for PI work. If you didn't
break
> any bones and only suffered minor scratches and bruises then the level of compensation you'd be
> likely to get for them won't rise to the
all-important
> £1k mark.
>
> You could have still tried suing the driver yourself under the small
claims
> procedure for the cost of repair to your bike, damage to clothing and a
sum
> for the aggravation, inconvenience, pain and suffering. That fact that there were no witnesses is
> not fatal to a claim succeeding, it just makes
it
> more difficult. You would have to rely on your word against the driver's, and any inferences that
> might logically be drawn from the undisputed facts about the accident. It would come down to who
> the Court believed on the day. It might also be that if the claim was only for a few £00's, the
> insurers would back down simply on the summons being issued - if they
wanted
> to defend the claim they would have to instruct solicitors at their own
cost
> and they could end up spending more in legal fees than you are trying to claim. If they don't
> appear in Court to defend, you automatically win.
>
> Be realistic but don't let the lack of legal representation or
stubbornness
> and brinkmanship of insurers defeat you before you even start.
>
> Rich

 

Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> David Marsh wrote:
>
> >OK. So am I being fed crap from the police that the DPA prevents them from forwarding details of
> >the driver to me?
>
> You may have to put in a written request for name and insurance details. They probably won't give
> out any other information.
>
> >Of course, the police haven't given me a contact number for themselves and I'll need to wait for
> >them to get back to me. Is this normal, or just Strathclyde Police being their normal (for most
> >of them, it seems (not all of them, though)) grumpy selves?
>
> As long as you have the name of the force and a reference number you should be OK.

They can,t give you the information direct. A letter to Statistics Dept at Strathclyde Police HQ
along with a fee (around £40) will get you an abstract giving details of driver and his insurance
co and, I believe, any witnesses. (tel 01415322000 ask for traffic stats for details of exact fee
and postal address). If you contact the local station covering where your accident occurred they
will give you the accident ref number and officer dealing with it. Its worth doing that first so
stats can find the report easily. Or alternatively and for £2.50 DVLA will release registered
keeper details to various organisations - and members of the public who have reasonable cause for
requesting it. Do a google on DVLA for their homepage. Much cheaper if it,s only the keepers
details you need.

cheers Iain

 

In scot.legal David Marsh <[email protected]> writted:

: OK. So am I being fed crap from the police that the DPA prevents them from forwarding details of
: the driver to me?

There's a lot of this ("can't tell you because of the DPA") going around, and I'm yet to see
justification for it (maybe I hang around in the wrong newsgroups!). IANAL, but I don't see
anything in the DPA that prevents this being disclosed. The DPA covers the storage of data, its
destruction, prevention of its release for direct marketing or similar, and statutory right of
access for the subject of the data. Ask them to tell you precisely where in the DPA there is a
phrase that prevents the legitimate use of data. For the record, the DPA(1998) can be found at:

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm

In any case, good luck with the claim.

Gavin

 

In news:[email protected], Gavin Whittaker <[email protected]> typed:
> In scot.legal David Marsh <[email protected]> writted:
>
>> OK. So am I being fed crap from the police that the DPA prevents them from forwarding details of
>> the driver to me?
>
> There's a lot of this ("can't tell you because of the DPA") going around, and I'm yet to see
> justification for it (maybe I hang around in the wrong newsgroups!). IANAL, but I don't see
> anything in the DPA that prevents this being disclosed. The DPA covers the storage of data, its
> destruction, prevention of its release for direct marketing or similar, and statutory right of
> access for the subject of the data.

> Ask them to tell you precisely where in the DPA there is a phrase that prevents the legitimate
> use of data. For the record, the DPA(1998) can be found at:
>
> http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm
>
> In any case, good luck with the claim.

It comes in Schedule II which says that disclosure has to be necessary to the purposes for which the
data was collected unless the subject of the data gives consent. The police have collected the data
for their investigation. It is not necessary for that purpose that you are provided with details of
the insurance company so you can make a private claim. Therefore without the consent of the other
party they cannot disclose it.

Tough but that's what the law says.

Tony

http://www.raven-family.com

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

 

In scot.legal Tony Raven <[email protected]> writted:

: It comes in Schedule II which says that disclosure has to be necessary to
<snip>

Many thanks for the clarification. It's a damned shame, because it's been so much fun to challenge
people on this one so far - they universally opt for the Eichmann defence.

ATB, Gavin

 

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:55:47 +0100, "Just meeeeeee." <[email protected]> wrote:

>I contacted a "No win No Fee" legal people from the back of cycling plus.

That's where you went wrong ;-)

Legal advice is usually worth what you pay for it. Especially free legal advice

Guy
===
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NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

 

"David Marsh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>

Really sorry to hear this Dave, but I'm sure there's plenty stupid prats, that have done sod all,
ready to slag you off in here. I have always gone to court, whether it was:- the hit and run drunk
driver, that drove into me from behind, The xmas fiddle taxi driver, that was on his radio, drove
across the white line onto my side of the road and hit me head-on, The car with 5 youths that side
swiped me on a roundabout, the rider (now dead) that skidded in front of us and took several other
riders out, including a present divisional road champion, The farm dogs left to run wild and attack
people, or the other car related ones, ALL my accidents have ended with a court settlement and
complete innocence on my part. However, the time and trouble involved made it a really long slog and
hardly worth it.

The police generally will not take action, unless a death occurs. Even if a motorised vehicle is
involved. Legal aid has effectively ended for RTA's, so its to the "no win, no fee" guys I'm afraid.
Unless, like I did four times, take him to the "small claims court" I think its still for sub £3000
claims. (Solicitors said the claims were too small to be worth it)

BUT: you HAVE to have and pay for a medical report first if its for injuries. The court will reject
the case if you don't have one.

Anymore help? let me know.

N

 

[Interleaved quoting: please read to end for all comments]

wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote in uk.rec.cycling: about: Re: LEGAL: Road incident, need advice on
getting compensation

> If you are a member of CTC - get on the phone to them - your membership entitles you to free
> legal help.

Luckily it did all end sort of well with the police getting the driver to contact me so that he
could pay up for a new jacket. Very bizarre, though, having to meet your 'opponent' in the street in
a Wild-West-esque kinda 'showdown' (will he have the money, won't he?)..

CTC, on the other hand, never bothered to reply to my email: we all know from here that (certain
clueful staff excepted) they don't grok the internet (<sigh>), but this is frankly crap customer
service and doesn't inspire faith should I have to use their legal assistance for something serious
in the future. I'll email again and moan at them..

--
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