Lemond Accuses Armstrong?

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by tberwald, Jul 15, 2004.

  1. scottshields

    scottshields New Member

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    "Quote... Talk about doping,

    isn't it very interesting that so many people/ 'contenders' have fared badly since the TdF has announced 'tougher' anti-dope measures and controls ??

    But interestingly, Lance and a few notable consistent performers like Basso, Mercabo and perhaps fellas like Jalabert, Voight, Piil and Moncoutie have continued to produce the kind of results which they have been achieving all these while ??

    Now... isn't there more reason to believe that these fellas who have fared badly despite all the hype have doping instead ?? ...Unquote"

    I have to disagree with this. If you really look at the main rivals for GC I think it's quite easy to explain their poor showing thus far.
    Mayo had the crash and loss of time early on which no doubt had serious effect on his morale.

    Hamilton crashed and hurt his back and thus abandoned.

    Ulrich IMO simply wasn't ready this year. He had let himself get completely out of shape over the winter. He may come back we'll have to wait as see.

    Heras and Lieperhimer I think were simply over hyped (again IMO).

    The one thing that has set Lance apart in my mind thus far is the USPS team. They are totally focused him wining the tour. They have put in time preparing for the tour like I've heard of no other team doing. The two mountain stages thus far have seen the same approach from the team. I haven't seen any of the other contenders start the final clime with almost all of his teammates pacing him to the top like USPS.

    If you suspect Lance of doping at this point (to me) you must suspect Basso as well. He appeared stronger that Lance on La Mongie and didn’t have anyone pacing him to the summit.

    I have no idea whether Lance is doping or not but I think he deserves credit for working him and his team harder than anyone else’s to prepare for the tour.

    Hat’s off the USPS team not just Lance!

    Scott
     


  2. BikeyGuy

    BikeyGuy New Member

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  3. gntlmn

    gntlmn New Member

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    I'll gladly give you $5.00 :D
     
  4. gntlmn

    gntlmn New Member

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    I agree with you on all points except that Basso was stronger on La Mongie. I think Armstrong could have taken that, but he needed Basso for the next day, up to Plateau de Beille. It was fair to allow him the win on La Mongie, not that he exactly gave it to him. Basso deserved the win, but I don't think that Armstrong would have lost if that were the last stage of the Tour.

    It's interesting that in years when the doping tests increase markedly, Lance wins by a bigger margin. Take 1999, for example, after the fiasco of the year before when top riders were found to be doping--Virenque, et al. Armstrong won by more than 6 minutes.

    Armstrong's quite a bit older now, but his team is much stronger now as well. It will be interesting to see his margin of victory, assuming he wins, this year. I expect that it may be more than 5 minutes. Anti doping measures help most those who do not dope by reducing the performance of those who usually do.
     
  5. benson

    benson New Member

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    I couldn't agree more. Boycott LeMond bikes! Definitely sour grapes. Lemond considers himself a 5-time winner: he dismisses Roach's performance in 87 and notes Delgado's drug use in 88; had he not been shot he very well could have won those as well. Using his own logic, LeMond could very well have eaten a handful of uppers before the final TT in 89. How else can he explain such an amazing TT?
     
  6. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I welcome Greg LeMonds remarks - not because of his allegations against Armstrong as such - but because he has broken the veil of silence as Willy Voet called it.

    Hinault and the rest of them play the game where they refuse to discuss
    doping.
    Listening to them speak, you'd think that there was no doping in cycling.
    LeMond has chosen to speak up - and while he has targetted Armstrong in particular - I think his comments are relevant to what we see today
    in the peloton.
    It remains unproven whether Armstrong takes drugs - we can merely speculate.
    But I tend to go with Dick Pounds view that cycling is in deep denial about the
    issue of drug abuse in the sport.
    The chemists are so far ahead of the testers that riders who have confessed to using dope passed all their tests.
    So testing is essentially a meaningless statement of innocence.

    The French and Italian police have uncovered the trafficking and distribution
    of drugs throughout this sport since 1998.
    The sport has refused to tackle the issue of doping and this is the crux of the
    problem.
     
  7. groskilly

    groskilly New Member

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    Opportunists pounce at the most opportune moment.
    Lance is world wide news now and what better time for
    them to make their move.
    Even if Lance made mistakes along the way you can not take away
    what this man is doing to help thousands of young cancer victims.

    When he wins they win.
     
  8. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Really? How do you explain the physique of Miguel Indurain then? He won five tours and was bigger and stronger than Lance Armstrong, with an equally low percentage of body fat (during his peak). Was he a doper too then? I guess by applying your logic, we can assume that you think he was?
     
  9. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    Exactly! But the folks that desparately want to beleive that Lance is a mediocre "miracle-dope-powered" athlete will choose to assume that Lance is a cheat even though there is no evidence to back this up. Only assumptions and speculation. They'd rather believe that than what they can actually see, which is the USPS team methodically grinding all comers into so much dust.
     
  10. Brunswick_kate

    Brunswick_kate New Member

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    Yes...you have to wonder where the hell T-Mobile was Friday and Saturday. They abandoned Ullrich way long before USPS had dropped off their leader.
     
  11. 6fhscjess

    6fhscjess Member

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    This is a comment about what I have read on these threads not just a reply to your comments benson. Lemond most likely would have won in 85 but he would have been attacking his team mate Hinault who if I remember correctly was bleeding from the nose after suffering from a crash. Lemond may have won in 87 and 88 but we will never know and neither can he be sure that he would have. If I remember correctly Roche was super in 87 winning the Giro, Tour and the worlds. In 89 Greg most likely won because he used Aero equipment and the others did not. Maybe we & Lance should call for an asterik to be placed by Lemond's name on his 89 win? How would Greg like that? In my observations it seems that those that have tested positive and or admitted to drug use do not have consistantly great performances and those that have not tested positive are more likely to have consistantly great performances. Drugs take a toll on the body and therefore I find it less likely that Lance is using drugs. It is more likely that the drugs used for his cancer treatment changed his body physically and biologicaly making him lighter with the same muscle mass and able to handle oxygen better. Lance has been under intense scrutiny for the past 6 years and is constanly being tested. He trains extremly hard as does his team and therefore Greg and the other naysayers should give Lance the benefit of the doubt. I was a big fan of Greg's but not anymore. He is becoming an embarrasement to himself and to cycling in general.
     
  12. maxxevv

    maxxevv New Member

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    Yes, that is what I can identify with wholeheartedly... That he continues to serve as an inspiration.

    In all honesty, I'm not an out-and-out Lance Armstrong fan, I would identify with Indurain better. But having lost a very good friend to cancer despite him fight it out and suffer so badly in his treatment till the very end...... :(
    It serves as icon as well as a beacon of hope that Lance continues in his winning ways... Because for those who suffer from this affliction known as cancer ( in its most severe form), every glimmer of hope isn't hope enough, much less find an inspiration to carry on the fight for life. The fight to live on....

    If you've seen what cancer does to anyone dear to you, you can't help but gap in awe what Lance has done, and what a champion in life he already is, even without his Tour victories. To me, to survive that and ride at the highest level again is victory enough in life.... ;)
     
  13. maxxevv

    maxxevv New Member

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    Haha ... thats very true.

    Perhaps he forgot about people on epic bike tours ?? I've had a friend do 700km in 3 days, which is about what the TdF fellas do normally and more. Of course he can't go at their pace and he was all alone too. Averaging almost 235km a day! And that was with 8-10 hour rides a day!

    Well, other than minor dehydration due to extremely hot weather, and a good tan, he came back still very healthy. No discernable mass loss at least.

    With good nutrition and support, I don't see how else can he not pull it off for 20 days, less illness and injury that is. So whats the big deal about riding 6 hour days ??? Being able to do that implies the fella is doping ?? Goodness, my friend hardly rides more than 3 times a week !
     
  14. Lat42kahuna

    Lat42kahuna New Member

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    Well Greg, if you had trained more in the off season as Lance does, instead of playing golf and hunting (not very well I might ad) you could have won more tours. With that said, I have taken a hair dryer to my LeMond and removed all traces of your name. Enjoy Lance's sixth victory. :cool:
     
  15. el Ingles

    el Ingles New Member

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    LA may be superman but his team ? they don´t seem to be troubled by the mountains at all !! What with the recent doping " problems " in US athletics and that Californian lab ( the home of the designer steroid THG ) one has to wonder if any of this " technology " has spun-off into US cycling .
    Don´t know what the situation with Lance is but I do want to read that book ...........

    ps these days " never failed a test " is a thin argument - neither has David Millar and he´s just admitted to taking EPO etc , seems we need to go back to stage one with testing :- a system that catches the cheats but does not throw up false positives ( remember Garzelli testing positive for a drug that´s not been made for more than 5+ years - last positive ANYWHERE was Delgado in ´88 when it was not banned by the UCI - it´s a diuetic by the way , said to mask in some circumstances )
     
  16. ey3dea414

    ey3dea414 New Member

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    Lemond is acting like a jealous pussy...let the governing bodies do their work and don't use your famous name for spreading speculation. I want to get rid of my LeMond Buenos Aires.
     
  17. ey3dea414

    ey3dea414 New Member

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    that's exactly right...taking drugs might help you sprint faster or pull a super time trial one day out of the year...but it certainly would be overestimating the power of these drugs to say it could win you 5/6 tours in a row.
     
  18. RichK

    RichK New Member

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    6fhscjess, great post.

    I raced against Lance a few times in the early 90s. I'll never forget a VERY early morning on the way to a road race in BFE, Texas. My team and I were huddled in our van in the early morning cold, driving the ~30 miles to the start area from our hotel. About halfway there, I looked over onto the frontage road to see a lone cyclist. It was Lance, riding to the start of the 90 mile race while the rest of us drove.

    The guy has a massive drive to win, as well as the body to do it. Couple that with being a cancer survivor, and I just don't see him taking dangerous drugs.
     
  19. pobserver03

    pobserver03 New Member

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    Discussion is good. It opens up doors and forums by where problems can be defined and solutions offered to remedy the epidemic of doping in all sports, not just cycling. However, I don't think Lemond's groundless accusations constitute a discussion. He only discredits himself in so doing. First a problem needs to be defined & second, proof offered to back up his claim. The old man can not substantiate anything he says as it pertains to LA.

    PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
     
  20. fan

    fan New Member

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    I agree.
    Boycott his products.

    I heard Lemond feels that way because he feels everyone (including himself) used and uses. He is quite the baby.
    He had his day and is etched in history...now this will also be on his mark that he leaves behind....a true baby and definite LEMON.

    Lance gives many hope and courage. He is a true pro.



     
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