Lemond and Fignon

[Flyer]

In support of LeMond : he was being courted by several major teams when he was going professional (TI Raleigh, Peugeot and Renault).
He said that he against TI and Peugeot, because of their stance on doping.
He did sign with Cyril Guimard and Renault - and he said at the time that he preferred Guimard because his teams were clean.

ddddddddddddddddddddddddd

 

[helmutRoole2]

...the one-balled elephant in the room.

Oh jesus, this is golden.

I predict this will go viral.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Mainly he was suffering from a shortage of EPO.

I agree with this. I think he was running everything but... I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts Lemond would've run some EPO if he could've laid his hands on it.

Remember the last time someone was elevated to clean hero status? Does the Jan Ullrich ring a bell?

 

[Bro Deal]

Off topic: Try to forget that hideous specially built, long wheelbase "easy rider" Eddy Merckx bike he used at Paris-Roubaix. That bike was an eye-sore. Seemed like the poor guy was grasping for straws at the trailing end of a great career. All photos of the bike probably had to be confiscated and destroyed.

I tracked down a photo of that bike a couple of weeks ago and posted it to cyclingnews' forum. Bauer is riding it, so it is hard to see how hideous it is.

 

[youhaditcoming]

Hi, i have been reading Fignon's new book, first chapter talks about the 1989 Tour. Did you guys knew that the battle in the Alpe d´Huez stage started as soon as the climb begun ? i didn't.... they took turns in attacking one to each other all the way up the climb. The TV coverage (which i have on VHS tape) showed only Fignon's last and succesfull atacked at the 4 KM to go banner.

 

[rebaths]

Fignon should try this new drug, to cure his cancer from within:

Nanoparticles take the place of chemotherapy | BionicMe

 

[Sandamal]

Fignon isn't really a doper. Read his book...it is very interesting and entertaining. He is totally open and transparent about his drug taking...basically dares any doubters to ask why he would lie about any of it and goes on to list everything from amphetamines to cocaine. He was definitely a partier! He says only an idiot would take amphetamines for a race because it is the easiest drug to test for but that it goes out of your system very quickly. His motor pacing trainer bailed on him and he needed to get the miles in and used the amphetamines to motivate himself to train. The actual race was many days away and the drug should have been long gone out of his system...but the drug test caught the faintest trace of it and his rep was trashed. He said it was really stupid of him.

He says he had the opportunity to try EPO...but was frightened because it was a blood modifying drug and he felt like he didn't need it...because, well, he was Laurent Fignon (...the guy who won the tour on his first try (age 22), the guy who crushed Lemond and Hinault by more than 7 minutes in the following tour).

He then said one day in the 90's he was flying up a mountain in the tour and he felt his old form...his legs ticking away like the old days...feeling great. Then he caught and passed by a bunch of average riders...riders HE KNEW couldn't do what he was doing on a normal day. He decided that his career was over and quit shortly after.

Look at his career...it went downhill with the EPO era too...very clear he didn't use EPO. Lemond and Fignon did not use EPO. It's simple math...it wasn't available to them until well after 1989 when their results tanked.

Sure it's possible that they could have used it in 1990...but where are their EPO performances? No stellar rides...no amazing victories. Riders of their talent should have sky rocketed with that drug.

Instead, you have Lance...who's career went through the roof. Simple when step back a little. Lemond doesn't do things that Lance does: because they are different people. Just because lance doped doesn't mean that everyone did. Not everyone cheats. Some people have morals.

Bauer seems to have morals...Hampsten does. The behave like straight riders. Dopers behave like bullies.

Swampy1970, you know a lot of half-truths and it sounds like you've lost faith in humanity a bit. There are people who don't dope because they can't...they actually can't get themselves to do it.
It's over-simplifying to say that Lemond/Fignon doped because they were alive at that time. I can't prove they didn't dope...you can't prove they did. But why go out of your way to say someone did something bad when you really can't prove it? Why not read a book or two about cycling? It would help demystify some of the characters you think are so flawed.

Usually what goes around comes around. Fignon was struggling with cancer when wrote his book came out. I doubt he would care much about creating a facade about his life under this condition. His book is brutally frank about everything.

It made me respect Fignon quite a bit.

 

[oldbobcat]

Quote:


It is known, that Lemond won in 1989 because he used a particular bike during the last time trial on Champs Elysees. Check youtube, and compare Lemond and his bike to Fignon and his old fashioned roadbike. I am convinced, that on that particular day, Fignon was still stronger than Lemond, but was beaten by a better, higher technology (although not wanting to diminish Lemond's talent, as I really admire him for all he did, and is doing).
And it appears to me that LeMond could usually find something extra to beat Fignon (and a lot of other guys) when the need arised. I'm thinking about Chambery at this moment.

But narrowing the frontal area at the arms and shoulders sure was a game-changer.

 

[swampy1970]

Fignon isn't really a doper.  Read his book...it is very interesting and entertaining.  He is totally open and transparent about his drug taking...basically dares any doubters to ask why he would lie about any of it and goes on to list everything from amphetamines to cocaine.  He was definitely a partier! He says only an idiot would take amphetamines for a race because it is the easiest drug to test for but that it goes out of your system very quickly.  His motor pacing trainer bailed on him and he needed to get the miles in and used the amphetamines to motivate himself to train.  The actual race was many days away and the drug should have been long gone out of his system...but the drug test caught the faintest trace of it and his rep was trashed.  He said it was really stupid of him. He says he had the opportunity to try EPO...but was frightened because it was a blood modifying drug and he felt like he didn't need it...because, well, he was Laurent Fignon (...the guy who won the tour on his first try (age 22), the guy who crushed Lemond and Hinault by more than 7 minutes in the following tour).  He then said one day in the 90's he was flying up a mountain in the tour and he felt his old form...his legs ticking away like the old days...feeling great.  Then he caught and passed by a bunch of average riders...riders HE KNEW couldn't do what he was doing on a normal day. He decided that his career was over and quit shortly after. Look at his career...it went downhill with the EPO era too...very clear he didn't use EPO.  Lemond and Fignon did not use EPO.  It's simple math...it wasn't available to them until well after 1989 when their results tanked. Sure it's possible that they could have used it in 1990...but where are their EPO performances? No stellar rides...no amazing victories.  Riders of their talent should have sky rocketed with that drug. Instead, you have Lance...who's career went through the roof.  Simple when step back a little. Lemond doesn't do things that Lance does: because they are different people. Just because lance doped doesn't mean that everyone did.  Not everyone cheats. Some people have morals. Bauer seems to have morals...Hampsten does.  The behave like straight riders.  Dopers behave like bullies.  Swampy1970, you know a lot of half-truths and it sounds like you've lost faith in humanity a bit.  There are people who don't dope because they can't...they actually can't get themselves to do it. It's over-simplifying to say that Lemond/Fignon doped because they were alive at that time.  I can't prove they didn't dope...you can't prove they did. But why go out of your way to say someone did something bad when you really can't prove it?  Why not read a book or two about cycling? It would help demystify some of the characters you think are so flawed. Usually what goes around comes around.  Fignon was struggling with cancer when wrote his book came out.  I doubt he would care much about creating a facade about his life under this condition.  His book is brutally frank about everything. It made me respect Fignon quite a bit.  

You forget that blood doping was used since the early 70s. This stuff didn't start with Lance, despite the press reporting otherwise. Mostly blood tranfusions but it's the same "technology" that fueled more than a few of the riders after a test for EPO was certified. Even Zoetemelke admitted using tranfusions to "top up" during his 1980 win where Ti-Raleigh ground Hinault into the ground. EPO was available before 89. The random spike of dead riders in the late 80's proves that. IIRC, a rider was banned in 1988 for EPO. Try harder and provide details next time.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Sandamal
Fignon isn't really a doper. Read his book...it is very interesting and entertaining. He is totally open and transparent about his drug taking...basically dares any doubters to ask why he would lie about any of it and goes on to list everything from amphetamines to cocaine. He was definitely a partier! He says only an idiot would take amphetamines for a race because it is the easiest drug to test for but that it goes out of your system very quickly. His motor pacing trainer bailed on him and he needed to get the miles in and used the amphetamines to motivate himself to train. The actual race was many days away and the drug should have been long gone out of his system...but the drug test caught the faintest trace of it and his rep was trashed. He said it was really stupid of him.

I have no reason to suspect that the extent of Fignon's doping was greater than he confessed to. I have no reason to suspect that LeMond, Hampsten, or Bauer doped at all. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm saying insinuation and conjecture don't convince me. There's no evidence.

I recall reading about autlogous blood transfusions when I started amateur racing in the mid-'70s. Eventually I learned that many members of the '84 US Olympic team blood doped. I wasn't surprised. I wasn't surprised that Connie Carpenter, who had her integrity, and Alexi Grewal, who had his own preparations, were not among them.