Lemond Arrivee Titanium VS Cannodal R1000

[jon]

I can get either of these two bikes at the same price, as the Lemond Arrivee Titanium is on sale which puts it at the same price as the Cannondale R1000.
I am a recreational rider, but am looking for speed and comfort, plus any other benefits.
I would greatly appreciate all comments on these two bikes.
I am having a hard finding anything for reviews on the Lemond, which leaves me wondering if it is not very popular with serious riders?
What is your vote on these two?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I just bought a new R1000. The ride is stiff, but I really like the handling and craftsmanship. Lemond bikes are really nice bikes! Don't let anyone sell them short. If Ti or steel are your thing, Lemond bikes are some of the best crafted. If not, there is a whole world of aluminum out there. If you want comfort, the aluminum CAAD7 frames are probably not for you. IMO, you should consider the Arrivee over the R1000.

Scuba Steve

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by Scuba Steve
I just bought a new R1000. The ride is stiff, but I really like the handling and craftsmanship. Lemond bikes are really nice bikes! Don't let anyone sell them short. If Ti or steel are your thing, Lemond bikes are some of the best crafted. If not, there is a whole world of aluminum out there. If you want comfort, the aluminum CAAD7 frames are probably not for you. IMO, you should consider the Arrivee over the R1000.

Scuba Steve

The R1000 may be in the same price range, but it isn't even in Lemond's league.

 

[jon]

Originally posted by BaCardi
The R1000 may be in the same price range, but it isn't even in Lemond's league.

BaCardi
I take it that you are saying the Lemond wins hands down?
Please tell me why, as I need to make a decision.
All comments are appreciated.

 

[BaCardi]

I'm opinionated yes, but check the geometry on the Lemond and the Canondale. I'm in agreement with Greg's general ideas about geometry, slacker seat tube angles + longer top tubes. Greg was known for pioneering a more relaxed aero position in the pro peleton. He had his saddle set with his knee positioned even BEHIND the peddle spindle. That's what I call laid back! This allows better leverage climbing while in the saddle. The longer top tube stretches out the upper body for better breathing and weight distribution. His ideas were tested by then French coach and physiologist Cyrille Guimard in the 80s. Hinault adopted these ideas later in his career and it really revolutionized the way racers adjusted their bike position for better efficiency. His ideas have trickled into a lot of manufacturers bikes. Fit is the most important aspect. Material second.

On to material, I think you'll find the titanium much much more comfy due to titanium's inherent flexiness. The Canondale will be stiffer, but stiffer is not necessarily better. A good friend of mine rode a Canondale and he thought it was too stiff and rode like an ironing board. He's 6'3 and 185 lbs. When he went to a steel bike, he says it was a tremdous difference. When you buy a Canondale, you're getting an expensive sticker on a yuppie item. Ride on some chip and seal roads and the Canondale will rattle your body raw at the end of the day while the Lemond titanium will be smooth as butter. And that's what's it all about.

 

[jon]

Originally posted by BaCardi
I'm opinionated yes, but check the geometry on the Lemond and the Canondale. I'm in agreement with Greg's general ideas about geometry, slacker seat tube angles + longer top tubes. Greg was known for pioneering a more relaxed aero position in the pro peleton. He had his saddle set with his knee positioned even BEHIND the peddle spindle. That's what I call laid back! This allows better leverage climbing while in the saddle. The longer top tube stretches out the upper body for better breathing and weight distribution. His ideas were tested by then French coach and physiologist Cyrille Guimard in the 80s. Hinault adopted these ideas later in his career and it really revolutionized the way racers adjusted their bike position for better efficiency. His ideas have trickled into a lot of manufacturers bikes. Fit is the most important aspect. Material second.

On to material, I think you'll find the titanium much much more comfy due to titanium's inherent flexiness. The Canondale will be stiffer, but stiffer is not necessarily better. A good friend of mine rode a Canondale and he thought it was too stiff and rode like an ironing board. He's 6'3 and 185 lbs. When he went to a steel bike, he says it was a tremdous difference. When you buy a Canondale, you're getting an expensive sticker on a yuppie item. Ride on some chip and seal roads and the Canondale will rattle your body raw at the end of the day while the Lemond titanium will be smooth as butter. And that's what's it all about.

BaCardi
Great reply and it is much appreciated! Looks like it will be the Lemont. No one seems to want to defend the Cannondale, and it sounds as though you know what you are talking about.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Well, I guess I will have to defend my honor. I agree with a lot of BaCardis' rambling, but calling the Cannondale "Getting an expensive sticker on a yuppie item." That's damn funny! I had the luxury of riding a lot of bikes before I made my decision, including a Lemond Ti among many others. I found that the Cannondale suited my riding style better and has more responsive handling. Not to mention a lot less $$$. Is the Cannondale CAAD7 for you? Like I said in my previous post, more than likely not. If BaCardi doesn't like Cannondale, that's cool. Flame on brother. I just think it looks pretty good on the back of my BMW!!

Scuba Steve

 

[BaCardi]

You have a Beamer and a Canondale? Let me guess, nice white collar job, good looking wife, scuba and Cancun on the weekends, right? Geez! You totally fit the target market for that bike of yours!

 

[rek]

I thought that was the Colnago market ..

 

[jon]

Originally posted by rek
I thought that was the Colnago market ..

I see so many Cannondale bikes on the road, somebody has to be riding them and reading this thread. Hopefully, like Scuba Steve, they will step up and defend the Cannodales honor.
Would like to hear some comparisions.
As Sergeant Joe Friday said on Dragnet.....just the facts mamm...

 

[rabalter]

I bought a Cannondale R1000, because it's a great bike for the price, rides well and handles great, not becuase I'm a "yuppie".......

 

[rek]

The best option would be to do a back-to-back comparison of the two, along the same route and with the same wheelset.

I ride a Cannondale.. two actually I like them very much and can't really fault them for anything.

BaCardi does make good points about the LeMond geometry, I've heard a fair bit about it (but haven't really looked into it myself.)

 

[Scuba Steve]

Actually, I am the anti-yuppie!!!!! Fart-On!

Scuba Steve

 

[hillclimber]

A word on Lemond vs. Cannondale...I have a buddy who crashed into hay bales, at about 30 mph. It was on a corner, and he was riding his ti Lemond, and got up and rode away. I have another friend who bent his cannodale frame in a low speed dump on sand.
The Lemond will ride like silk. I own one !!!!

 

[jon]

Originally posted by hillclimber
A word on Lemond vs. Cannondale...I have a buddy who crashed into hay bales, at about 30 mph. It was on a corner, and he was riding his ti Lemond, and got up and rode away. I have another friend who bent his cannodale frame in a low speed dump on sand.
The Lemond will ride like silk. I own one !!!!

Hillclimber, I never thought about that...ouch...I wonder if Cannodndales frame warranty covers a crash? That could make a huge different in deciding on a purchase between the two.

 

[BaCardi]

I think a better test is to test ride each bike and put it through its paces. That is, test its handling, cornering abilities, AND most importantly its RIDING abilities. Most people, test out bikes in the parking lots and little streets behind a bike shop. That's not a real test. A lot of people are like, "gee that one was really light and seemed pretty stiff. I'll take it." Then, they go on a longer ride and their ass and back are tired and beat because the frame was ultra stiff. Remember, as far as feel the most important thing is how it rides. Secondary is how it handles corners, etc. You spend 99% of your time riding a straight line and 1% of your time cornering. Obviously, if you care about looks then you spend 100% of your time looking at your bike on a bike rack of a BMW. hehhe

So, to really test each bikes worthiness you'd have to have the same components and wheels with the same inflation pressures and ride each for about 2-3 hours over some chip and seal roads on different days. I say different days because you want a totally non-biased opinion of how the bike AND you feel. Testing over ultra-smooth roads ain't gonna tell you much either. This is obviously totally unrealistic because bike shops don't loan bikes out.

As you can probably tell, I'm not a big fan of thin fat-tube aluminum tubes. Remember, the larger the diameter of tubing, the stiffer the frame. Nothing against Canondale, but if they had some more sensibly sized smaller diameter aluminum tubes in their road bike line, then maybe I'd like them more. Some of the Merckx, Pinerello, and European frames that alot of pros are using have smaller aluminum tubes than Canondale's making them more compliant and comfy. See the thing is, ultra-stiff is great if you are into that and if you are part of the small part of the population into that stuff. So yes, if you like stiffness BY ALL MEANS buy the Canondale! But even racers demand comfort. And what good is that ultra-stiff frame when at the end of a race you are too beat up to sprint? Anyway, I think stiffness is great and all, but it really is secondary to fit and comfort. Just IMO.

My opinionated thoughts on bike design in regards to what's important
1) Fit
2) Comfort
3) Handling
4) Stiffness

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by jon
Hillclimber, I never thought about that...ouch...I wonder if Cannodndales frame warranty covers a crash? That could make a huge different in deciding on a purchase between the two.

My experience with warranties is quite simple. They are nice, but, I'd rather ride a bike that can take what the road dishes out. There no trade offs with ti....it rides like a dream, handles beautifully, and with Lemond geometry, will become a part of you !!! I'm a believer!!! Good Luck with your decision.

 

[jon]

Well, I am making the decision this week and it now looks like the Lemond.
I am shocked too see so many Cannodale riders on the road and no one stepping up to defend their choice of this bike??

 

[rek]

Jon, there's no one perfect bike for everyone .. some people love Cannondales, others wish they were molten down and made into aluminium cans They are pretty much the modern face of the stiff/big-tube aluminium frame, and cop a lot of flak for it.

BTW if you want a Cannondale durability story, I crashed my Cannondale mountain bike into a tree at 25-30km/h, and the only broken thing was the chainrings One-off crash reports are pretty meaningless though, e.g. if my bike had tilted just 10cm in another direction before hitting that tree, any bike would have been totaled..

The only thing you can really do, to do justice to all your options, is take them all for a test-ride.

 

[Babbar]

I think what we have learned is that the choice of a high-end bike is very subjective. You buy what you like. The choice, ultimately, is up to you. At around $2000 you are going to get a great bike no matter what you choose.

Personally, the Cannondale R1000 is at the top of my list, but if I could get an Arivee for the same price, there would be no question that I would take the Arivee. It is a better bike, in my own, far from humble, but highly subjective opinion.