Lemond : many more wins for Landis, Armstrong a "cheat"



G

gym.gravity

Guest
Keith wrote:
> >> Some people (not sure about Lemond) previously claimed that the higher
> >> avg. TdF speeds were evidence of doping, but Lemond implies that this
> >> last tour was clean and it had the 3rd fastest avg. speed.

> >
> >What this Tour also had was 6 or 7 fewer mountains (about 16
> >categorized climbs on mt stages compared to about 26-28 in 2005 and
> >2003, respectively) and 2 fewer mountain top finishes than the other
> >two fast tours. And most of the early flat stages were about 40km/h
> >this year compared to about 45km/h in those other two years.
> >
> >Fewer mountains enables higher speeds on mountain stages. Fewer
> >mountaintop finishes encourages aggresive riding in the mountains.

>
> Thanks for looking that up, certainly explains a lot.


The last part was me trying to sound like I know what I'm talking
about. The first part, I looked up.
 
K

Keith

Guest
On 24 Jul 2006 21:36:14 -0700, "Warren G" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Keith wrote:
>> "Lemond has certainly not hidden his feelings on Armstrong, and when
>> asked who would win today between Landis, him and Armstrong, Lemond at
>> first chuckled... For me I am a strong anti-doping advocate. I think
>> we are seeing a true Tour de France winner, someone who might have
>> otherwise been cheated out of a win."
>>
>> When asked if he was saying Lance's wins were tainted, Lemond said, "I
>> am not saying that. ..."
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul25news
>>
>> -----------
>> Looks like he just did though !

>
>I saw that interview on ESPN2. The quote is taken out of context. He
>was asked about, and talking about the riders who were disqualified
>from the Tour this year. IOW, if they had been allowed to race, Floyd
>may have been cheated out of a win.


That crossed my mind, but why did he refer to A then and not just say
that if it's what he meant !
 
G

gym.gravity

Guest
Keith wrote:
> >If Floyd stays with Phonak it would be nice if they could get hime some
> >effective help in the mountains. I doubt that he'll be allowed to go
> >off the front for 130 km in the TdF anymore (unless he's like 2 hours
> >down on GC...maybe not even then).

>
> Well if you saw the Morzine stage, they didn't "allow" him to do
> anythin they were just helpless !


Floyd doesn't need your help to add to his legend!

Those guys made a decision to sit up, reguardless of what they say.
Any one of those guys could have gone with him. It was the thought of
riding out there all day that scared them. For Floyd, it was his only
choice. They had the luxury of gambling that he would crack, and the
odds are, that he would.

I hope I'm wrong in saying it's gonna be a long time before we see
riding like that again.
 
F

Frank Drackman

Guest
"gym.gravity" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Keith wrote:
>> >If Floyd stays with Phonak it would be nice if they could get hime some
>> >effective help in the mountains. I doubt that he'll be allowed to go
>> >off the front for 130 km in the TdF anymore (unless he's like 2 hours
>> >down on GC...maybe not even then).

>>
>> Well if you saw the Morzine stage, they didn't "allow" him to do
>> anythin they were just helpless !

>
> Floyd doesn't need your help to add to his legend!
>
> Those guys made a decision to sit up, reguardless of what they say.
> Any one of those guys could have gone with him. It was the thought of
> riding out there all day that scared them. For Floyd, it was his only
> choice. They had the luxury of gambling that he would crack, and the
> odds are, that he would.
>
> I hope I'm wrong in saying it's gonna be a long time before we see
> riding like that again.
>


If you read some of the remarks coming from the T-Mobile riders it sounds
like there were orders from the car not to go with Floyd when he started the
attack.
 
Tom Kunich wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > If Floyd stays with Phonak it would be nice if they could get hime some
> > effective help in the mountains. I doubt that he'll be allowed to go
> > off the front for 130 km in the TdF anymore (unless he's like 2 hours
> > down on GC...maybe not even then).

>
> How many Phonaks started and how many ended?


Good point. Seven out of 9 made it to Paris with Hunter and Perdiguero
dropping. As a team they finished 10th.
 
C

Curtis L. Russell

Guest
On 25 Jul 2006 10:00:50 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>Good point. Seven out of 9 made it to Paris with Hunter and Perdiguero
>dropping. As a team they finished 10th.


And yet we didn't know Jerry Ryan could even ride a bike. Or cared.
Seriously, even the Phonak suit would look good. Got a picture?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
 
W

Warren G

Guest
Keith wrote:
> On 24 Jul 2006 21:36:14 -0700, "Warren G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Keith wrote:
> >> "Lemond has certainly not hidden his feelings on Armstrong, and when
> >> asked who would win today between Landis, him and Armstrong, Lemond at
> >> first chuckled... For me I am a strong anti-doping advocate. I think
> >> we are seeing a true Tour de France winner, someone who might have
> >> otherwise been cheated out of a win."
> >>
> >> When asked if he was saying Lance's wins were tainted, Lemond said, "I
> >> am not saying that. ..."
> >>
> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul25news
> >>
> >> -----------
> >> Looks like he just did though !

> >
> >I saw that interview on ESPN2. The quote is taken out of context. He
> >was asked about, and talking about the riders who were disqualified
> >from the Tour this year. IOW, if they had been allowed to race, Floyd
> >may have been cheated out of a win.

>
> That crossed my mind, but why did he refer to A then and not just say
> that if it's what he meant !


The interviewer interjected something like" Are you saying Armstrong
was doping, then?" Lemond replied emphatically, "I am not saying that",
with a tone that was intended to correct the interviewer, or at least
to steer away from any assertions about Armstrong.
 
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
> On 25 Jul 2006 10:00:50 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Good point. Seven out of 9 made it to Paris with Hunter and Perdiguero
> >dropping. As a team they finished 10th.

>
> And yet we didn't know Jerry Ryan could even ride a bike. Or cared.
> Seriously, even the Phonak suit would look good. Got a picture?
>
> Curtis L. Russell
> Odenton, MD (USA)
> Just someone on two wheels...


Now that's a good one! I bet Jeri Ryan really could really make that
otherwise nauseating yellow/green Phonak kit sing. And, if she is
riding, I know which spot I want in the pace line...
 
T

Tim Lines

Guest
Keith wrote:
> "Lemond has certainly not hidden his feelings on Armstrong, and when
> asked who would win today between Landis, him and Armstrong, Lemond at
> first chuckled... For me I am a strong anti-doping advocate. I think
> we are seeing a true Tour de France winner, someone who might have
> otherwise been cheated out of a win."
>
> When asked if he was saying Lance's wins were tainted, Lemond said, "I
> am not saying that. ..."
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul25news
>
> -----------
> Looks like he just did though !


I want to like Lemond, he was a great rider. If he'd just keep his mouth
shut when he hasn't thought through what he's saying it'd be a lot easier.
 
K

Keith

Guest
>>> Well if you saw the Morzine stage, they didn't "allow" him to do
>>> anythin they were just helpless !

>>
>> Floyd doesn't need your help to add to his legend!
>>
>> Those guys made a decision to sit up, reguardless of what they say.
>> Any one of those guys could have gone with him. It was the thought of
>> riding out there all day that scared them. For Floyd, it was his only
>> choice. They had the luxury of gambling that he would crack, and the
>> odds are, that he would.
>>
>> I hope I'm wrong in saying it's gonna be a long time before we see
>> riding like that again.
>>

>
>If you read some of the remarks coming from the T-Mobile riders it sounds
>like there were orders from the car not to go with Floyd when he started the
>attack.


I think the riders were part of that decision, they showed Kloden
waving at Rodgers saying they couldn't keep going like this, if it had
been a team decision the headsets would have been enough.

Remember 2004 when Ullrich went out on the way to Villard-de-Lans and
CSC chased him for Basso's spot, so DSC could sit up ? I think that
what this shows is that if someone wants to pull that off, they'll
have to attack very early like Landis did, this will work each time if
the guy can keep it up. Heck it even caused LA to have his only "bonk"
in 2000.
 
T

Tom Kunich

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > If Floyd stays with Phonak it would be nice if they could get hime some
>> > effective help in the mountains. I doubt that he'll be allowed to go
>> > off the front for 130 km in the TdF anymore (unless he's like 2 hours
>> > down on GC...maybe not even then).

>>
>> How many Phonaks started and how many ended?

>
> Good point. Seven out of 9 made it to Paris with Hunter and Perdiguero
> dropping. As a team they finished 10th.


Yeah, rumors of how bad they were have to be put in contrast to the fact
that they're being compared to Cipollini's train or US Postal. That has
ALWAYS been the exception and if Floyd had a team that strong he would have
ridden his race just like Lance. In fact he tried.