Lemond needs to shut his trap!

[JohnO]

I can understand LeMond's outrage at the current doping situation. It is a perversion of a once beautiful sport, and flies in the face of the very gentlemanly way that cycling used to conduct itself. Waiting for a fallen leader, not attacking during feed stations, etc...

But, I question his motives for doing so. Why wasn't he speaking up in 98 after Festina, or the following years when there were some high profile EPO/hematocrit busts? Why now, when he has lost his position as THE American cyclist?

Speaking out from a love for the sport is admirable. Speaking out to try and reclaim personal glory is pitiful.

 

[blkhotrod]

Wow, you really got me there. Considering the way the USPRO system is set up, it's actually really easy to be a pro in the US. Making money at it is another story though. So yes, I was a pro for a year on a team that didn't pay it's riders anything, but I did ride some big events that House has only read about.

Do you really think LA was clean? You're either insane or the most naive person on this forum.

How can the most tested biker in history with zero positive tests lead you to think that everyone else is insane for thinking he is/was clean. Did you ever graduate from high school? or were you just born stupid?, or did you fall off your bike and hit your head? My guess is just your stupid.

 

[jeff828]

But, I question his motives for doing so. Why wasn't he speaking up in 98 after Festina, or the following years when there were some high profile EPO/hematocrit busts? Why now, when he has lost his position as THE American cyclist?

BRAVO VERY GOOD POINT

 

[jeff828]

How can the most tested biker in history with zero positive tests lead you to think that everyone else is insane for thinking he is/was clean[/i].

In that case LA deserves multiple victories, one for the feat of winning the TDF 7 times & another for beating the system every single year on every test in & out of competition, gee I wonder how many tests he has had from 1999, 50,100,200, man is he really good at winning or lucky OR HE WAS CLEAN!

I guess those other guys that won the TDF 5 times were also cheating & on dope of their time, because it sounds like there is no way you can win the tour or other tours by being clean.

Go LA, FL & the other tour winners.

 

[helmutRoole2]

How can the most tested biker in history with zero positive tests lead you to think that everyone else is insane for thinking he is/was clean. Did you ever graduate from high school? or were you just born stupid?, or did you fall off your bike and hit your head? My guess is just your stupid.

There's more than a little evidence indicting Armstrong for using PEDs. Most people who are familar with his history and the long history of PEDs in the sport of cycling will, at least reluctantly, acknowledge this.

Here's just a few off the top of my head.

1) Coached by Eddie B who openly admitted blood doping US cyclists at the 1984 Olympics.
2) Coached by Chris Charmicheal, a member of the 1984 Olympic team
3) Retained ties to an Italian physician who was convicted of sporting fraud for admittedly doping athletes.
4) Sworn testimony from eyewitnesses that Armstrong admitted doping during a meeting with a physician prior to his cancer surgery.
5) Contracted testicular cancer, a common side effect of steroid use.
6) Tested positive for EPO six separate times during the 1999 Tour de France.
7) Made cash payments to WADA while he was still a professional cyclist, a clear conflict of interest for both parties.

I acknowledge there's extenuating circumstances for each of the above examples. You can google each one, but here's a good place to start researching: stolenunderground.com

The guy who runs that site is, by my standards, a whack job, but he's got his facts straight and is a former doper and professional cyclist.

Now, I'm not saying all this should conclusively prove Armstrong doped, but it's got to make you wonder, at the very least.

 

[1timepro]

How can the most tested biker in history with zero positive tests lead you to think that everyone else is insane for thinking he is/was clean. Did you ever graduate from high school? or were you just born stupid?, or did you fall off your bike and hit your head? My guess is just your stupid.

I'm the supid one? BTW "your" shows ownership of something "you're" is the contraction that means "you are". Now, which one of us didn't graduate from high school?

 

[House]

I know I and I think most others don't have a problem with people "wondering," it's a problem with people claim they know he doped with zero proof.

 

[rayhuang]

I dont think Lemond needs ot shut his trap, he needs to not only get louder, but he needs to find more supporters that can make a change.


Think of it like this, assuming your clean and have never taken any performance enhancing drugs. Youve spent countless hours dreaming about that stage win in a Tour, then BAM!!! One day you realize that to get to that level, youve got to lie and cheat. NO amount of natural talent, miles or training or coaching can take you to the next level.

Wow-if I were Greg and this was what he is envisioning for the future of Cycling and US cycling.....Whoa-I'd speak out too.

I was ****** when I read what lemond said 2 years ago, but after some thought-I bet in time well be thankful he is saying the hurtful and hateful things.

Lemond is my only idol in life and i met him and he was SO freaking nice!!

I sure hope the motivation is good, not sour grapes.

 

[helmutRoole2]

In that case LA deserves multiple victories, one for the feat of winning the TDF 7 times & another for beating the system every single year on every test in & out of competition, gee I wonder how many tests he has had from 1999, 50,100,200, man is he really good at winning or lucky OR HE WAS CLEAN!

It's actually pretty easy to consistently beat the tests. For example, I went to the doctor today to get the results of my blood work. (I've been feeling crappy for the past six weeks.) My hematocrit was high, which it normally is -- 49.7 -- but my testosterone was on the low range -- 257; 187-800+ is normal.

Anyway, those numbers are pretty straightforward and easy to manipulate. In training, you want your testosterone levels to be high, but not high enough to register on a random test. So, the doc starts injecting testosterone and checking the levels via blood work, probably every other day at first. After a while, he'll get it down so he doesn't need the blood tests anymore. He know that 1.5 ccs eod of testDepot for rider A will register at just below the administered UCI tests. When the athletes get to the Tour, they know just how much to take. Sometimes they'll roll the dice and **** hot. Sometimes they'll roll the dice and not get tested.

All the stuff that WADA tests, any doctor can also test. People respond differently to drugs, but each individual's response over time varies very little. It becomes predictable.

The same approach is used with EPO.

 

[nath1]

Hi all, a bit off topic but i know lots of people that dope, not just in cycling but in other sports too. Such as bodybuilding, judo and boxing and these guys are only low level atheletes with no team docter to direct them. So i hear lots of ways these guys get around tests and how much gear that they take and what. Now you think cycling is bad for the "jungle juice " just take a look at bodybulding because even at a low grade competion these guys take huge amounts of stuff and never get caught. Believe me it is not whey and carbs that get them on stage. You dont even need to go to a bodybuilding competition, just go down town to the local gym and see for your self the gym rats at work who take the gear to just look good at the week end. Unfit people look at these people in envy and train each time just hoping that they too one day will look as good as these people BUT it never happens. Why?. Because they aint taking anything "extra". Its the same with the pro peloton. You either take or get left behind. With regards as to who did , does and has i do not believe anyone. Not Lance not Lemond not anyone but this does not mean i like them any less. I think they are all legends that probably used something at one stage or another. The racing today is far too demanding even for an experianced athelete so they in my opinion need a little "extra" just to remain healthy. At the end of the day gear only does so much. I see guys taking as much "stuff" as pro bodybuilders but their genetics are no good so they will never emulate their idols no matter what they do. I read a good book called "The crooked path to victory" ISBN 1-892495-40-6 this book is very revealing i think that its worth a read its all about the tour and drug abuse from the beginning . Cheers all

 

[MikefrMd]

It's actually pretty easy to consistently beat the tests. For example, I went to the doctor today to get the results of my blood work. (I've been feeling crappy for the past six weeks.) My hematocrit was high, which it normally is -- 49.7 -- but my testosterone was on the low range -- 257; 187-800+ is normal.

Anyway, those numbers are pretty straightforward and easy to manipulate. In training, you want your testosterone levels to be high, but not high enough to register on a random test. So, the doc starts injecting testosterone and checking the levels via blood work, probably every other day at first. After a while, he'll get it down so he doesn't need the blood tests anymore. He know that 1.5 ccs eod of testDepot for rider A will register at just below the administered UCI tests. When the athletes get to the Tour, they know just how much to take. Sometimes they'll roll the dice and **** hot. Sometimes they'll roll the dice and not get tested.

All the stuff that WADA tests, any doctor can also test. People respond differently to drugs, but each individual's response over time varies very little. It becomes predictable.

The same approach is used with EPO.

Helmut,

If a Doctor can test his testosterone everyday...why does it take a full lab in France a week to get results? Not being flip just honestly curious...can Doctors get quick test kits that are close in readings but not 100% accurate?

Also is it possible for someone to intentionally taint a sample...meaning pour synthetic testosterone in someones sample to screw up their test. I doult if thats the case here because the sample from what I understand were numbered not name and those numbers and names were confidential I assume...but someone has the master list I guess.

 

[helmutRoole2]

Helmut,

If a Doctor can test his testosterone everyday...why does it take a full lab in France a week to get results? Not being flip just honestly curious...can Doctors get quick test kits that are close in readings but not 100% accurate?

Well, we're talking about pretty inteligent people with expertise in the field of drug testing. They can create a "lab" on the spot. It's just a matter of brnging the right tools. Or, they know lab techs and they get their samples rushed through the process. My doc turned my test results around in three days. No rush.

Also is it possible for someone to intentionally taint a sample...meaning pour synthetic testosterone in someones sample to screw up their test. I doult if thats the case here because the sample from what I understand were numbered not name and those numbers and names were confidential I assume...but someone has the master list I guess.

It would have to be a sample from someone doping. That's my guess. I don't think adding some testosterone from a vial into the mix would generate a result anyone could make heads or tails of.

Hope that helps.

 

[karlotta]

I know I and I think most others don't have a problem with people "wondering," it's a problem with people claim they know he doped with zero proof.

Agreed. I do not claim to KNOW that he doped.

 

[blkhotrod]

There's more than a little evidence indicting Armstrong for using PEDs. Most people who are familar with his history and the long history of PEDs in the sport of cycling will, at least reluctantly, acknowledge this.

Here's just a few off the top of my head.

1) Coached by Eddie B who openly admitted blood doping US cyclists at the 1984 Olympics.
2) Coached by Chris Charmicheal, a member of the 1984 Olympic team
3) Retained ties to an Italian physician who was convicted of sporting fraud for admittedly doping athletes.
4) Sworn testimony from eyewitnesses that Armstrong admitted doping during a meeting with a physician prior to his cancer surgery.
5) Contracted testicular cancer, a common side effect of steroid use.
6) Tested positive for EPO six separate times during the 1999 Tour de France.
7) Made cash payments to WADA while he was still a professional cyclist, a clear conflict of interest for both parties.

I acknowledge there's extenuating circumstances for each of the above examples. You can google each one, but here's a good place to start researching: stolenunderground.com

The guy who runs that site is, by my standards, a whack job, but he's got his facts straight and is a former doper and professional cyclist.

Now, I'm not saying all this should conclusively prove Armstrong doped, but it's got to make you wonder, at the very least.

all 1999 samples were ruled to be bogus.........so again tell me one positive test in his whole cycling career. you can't. as for guilt by association......i will agree hillary is guilty of being in bed with howard dean

 

[limerickman]

Agreed. I do not claim to KNOW that he doped.

It's just that the test results showed that he did dope, which means - he did dope.

 

[karlotta]

It's just that the test results showed that he did dope, which means - he did dope.

The counter-analysis should settle the question for most folks. I'm sure, if it confirms the A-sample analysis, that Mr. Landis will try to defend himself. But I think that most reasonable individuals will see a positive counter-analysis as the nail in the coffin.

Looks like the counter-analysis results will be ready Saturday. I had read that Landis was to appear on the Jay Leno "Tonight" show on Thursday. I assume he'll have representatives at the opening/testing.

 

[poulidor]

all 1999 samples were ruled to be bogus.........so again tell me one positive test in his whole cycling career.

I suppose you are writing on Armstrong.

It's clear, you can say 1999 samples were not positive with EPO according WADA or UCI rules.
But science says : THERE WAS EPO IN HIS 6 SAMPLES !!!

Now, what will stay in history? I think the truth: Armstrong took EPO in 1999!

If he had not taken EPO, it was easy for Armstrong to win lawsuit against L'Equipe and LNDD. In this case, he and his lawyers can earn a lot of money.
Why didn't he it?

 

[limerickman]

The counter-analysis should settle the question for most folks. I'm sure, if it confirms the A-sample analysis, that Mr. Landis will try to defend himself. But I think that most reasonable individuals will see a positive counter-analysis as the nail in the coffin.

Looks like the counter-analysis results will be ready Saturday. I had read that Landis was to appear on the Jay Leno "Tonight" show on Thursday. I assume he'll have representatives at the opening/testing.

I was referring to Armstrong's failing seven tests at the 1999 TDF actually!

As regards Landis, the possibility that the B sample will convict him is highly likely.
I would be very surprised if the B sample contradicts the A sample.

Mixed emotions to be honest.
On the one hand it is great to see cheaters being caught and we should be all thankful for the work done by the anti-doping agencies.
People with a genuine interest in sport want to see clean/fair sport.

But as I said before, having seen him speak and the way in which he conducts himself, I am sorry to see what has transpired for Landis.
I thought we could have had a good ambassador for the sport, in him.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Landis's career is finished.... if we look to the Hamilton case it took him neigh on two years for his federation then CAS to tell him that he did dope... Hamilton was a little older but Landis will be 32 by the time his suspension finishes and he will be 33 when he can ride the Tour after the suspension thus ending his career.... its over for Floyd. I'm sorry but its true.

We can speculate all we like how the testosterone got into his system but its there and its there in a great quantity. Athletes should know better. His doctor should of known better.

The counter-analysis should settle the question for most folks. I'm sure, if it confirms the A-sample analysis, that Mr. Landis will try to defend himself. But I think that most reasonable individuals will see a positive counter-analysis as the nail in the coffin.

Looks like the counter-analysis results will be ready Saturday. I had read that Landis was to appear on the Jay Leno "Tonight" show on Thursday. I assume he'll have representatives at the opening/testing.

 

[RobertCZ]

Question for Limerick or Cyclingheroes.

I started following cycling around 1993 when I moved to Europe so I know very little about racing in the 80's. My questions is:

Was Lemond as outspoken about doping in the peleton when he was a rider?

If he did then I have no problem with his comments now but if he didn't then he is being very hypocritical of other riders (particularily LA)

Why would he speak out now? Maybe because he has nothing to lose monetarily. He is already rich and doesn't need to work another day in his life. Maybe his bike line would suffer but it is owned by Trek now so that won't put him in the soup line. or maybe he was also not as clean as he says? (Pot calling the kettle black)

Lemond retire due to an illness effecting his muscles correct? How did he develop this disease? Was it genetic?