l'equipe publishes report... looks damming for Ullrich and Basso...



tcklyde

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JohnDDD said:
What I find hard to believe is that Bjarne Riis is actually trying to be clean these days. I mean the guy rode with all the big doping teams like Ariostea and Gewiss and his alleged nickname was Mr. 60%. I've heard they had to wake him up in the middle of the night just to keep his heart from stopping because his blood was so thick.

Yes, rumours, I know, but probably not without some truth to it. Back in 1996 Riis was riding with Ullrich and there has been a former professional who has accused both Riis and Ullrich of taking dope. Of course, this was kind of standard in those days, but Riis still seemed like one of the big dopers.

Now the name of Riis protegé Ivan Basso appears on a list together with Riis former team mate, Jan Ullrich.

Seems like these guys keep running into each other.

The biggest problem is that the team bosses still can't be trusted. First of course Manolo Saiz, who has been doping his riders for more than 10 years. It's not a coincidence he made time trials his speciality, which are perfectly fit for blood doping!

Guys like Dufaux, Zülle and Neil Stephens - all Festina 98 - used to ride for him. But also Erik Breukink, team boss of Rabobank, an excellent time trialist and suspected in the 1991 PDM doping affaire, and Johan Bruyneel, now the boss of the already famous Discovery Channel team!

Then of course there is Patrick Lefévre, team boss of Quick-Step and former boss of Mapei. Mapei had dopers like Beltran, Cioni, Museeuw, Nardello, Olano, Rominger, Tafi and Vandenbroucke.

Now most of these riders are gone, but these team bosses are still there. Lefévre LOOKS like he's making a real effort against doping, and also Breukink seems honest and hoping for a clean sport. But who tells me we can trust these people? Nobody's ever come clean about the past, when the entire peloton was doping, and now all of sudden these guys seem the ones to be rooting for a clean sport.

In a way it's wonderful that there might be a realistic chance people like this have come to deeper insights into the true meaning of sport and that they might really have changed their ways. On the other hand, it's hard for me to trust Riis when he appears to be so anti-dope and when Lefévre and Museeuw deny doping allegations from the past.

Great post.
 

tcklyde

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Bro Deal said:
Good points. I have read some things that indicate that Breukink was personally anti-dope and was probably a clean rider--or as clean as you can get in pro cycling during that time.

The most damning thing is that your set of dopers who are now in positions of power in the sport just scratches the surface. Most of who you listed are from the Spanish and Belgian side of the sport. What about Italy, where this whole mess with scientifcally administered EPO really started? My favorite is Mauro Gianetti, a man who must have been suffering from some sort of madness when he injected himself with perfluorocarbons. He promptly went into anaphylactic shock and nearly died. He is now the manager of Saunier Duval.

As a contrast, take Jean-Cyril Robin, who made plenty of criticisms about doping in the peloton while he rode (LA even told him to be quiet at one point). He went to Francaise des Jeux management in 2005 (though I don't know if he is still with the team). And, of course, we all know how well Francaise des Jeux has done.
 

tinks

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sydsyd said:
I think it looks damaging for Pevenage for sure. I suspect we will see Basso vindicated as the evidence looks pretty shady. As for Jan, maybe 50/50. The guys actually seen on the videotape or audio interacting with Fuentes are pretty much screwed and will have a harder time proving their innocence.
Very bad for Pevenage.

You can cast doubt on who "rudico" from Belgium is, there are lots of Rudy's in Belgium. For example (and I don't mean to imply anything about him), but the Belgian national mountain bike coach is another Rudy; Rudy De Bie, and world champ, Meirhaeghe admitted to doping and said he started using EPO at a training camp in Austria.

The real nail in the coffin is the reference to a time trial on the 18th. Maybe someone can check dates but I don't think there were any other time trials that same day. [size=-1]
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Bro Deal

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tinks said:
The real nail in the coffin is the reference to a time trial on the 18th. Maybe someone can check dates but I don't think there were any other time trials that same day. [size=-1]
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I just posted some info in the "Ullrich/DNA" thread that shows there were two other time trials that day, both involving riders with variations of the name Jan.
 

wolfix

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Bro Deal said:
I just posted some info in the "Ullrich/DNA" thread that shows there were two other time trials that day, both involving riders with variations of the name Jan.
Why would the doctor write #1 on a bag with the name Jan on it? And the "son of Rudy" being connected to the name Jan?

This is really reaching.
 

Bro Deal

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wolfix said:
Why would the doctor write #1 on a bag with the name Jan on it? And the "son of Rudy" being connected to the name Jan?

This is really reaching.
Unlike you I fully acknowledge the corruptness of the sport and the involvement of all the top riders. I just think that with the evidence shown so far there is a chance that Ullrich will walk on this particular charge. That does not mean I am naive enough to think that he, Armstrong, Basso, and all the others do not dope.

I do not think Ullrich would be demanding a DNA test with the blood marked "JAN" if he knew it would establish that the blood was in fact his.
 

whiteboytrash

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wolfix said:
Why would the doctor write #1 on a bag with the name Jan on it? And the "son of Rudy" being connected to the name Jan?

This is really reaching.
However the phonecall says that "Rudicio" said "there is a time trial" at 12.20pm on the day of the time trial. Now if Rudy P was shipping in some blood all the way from Spain and then spend an hour tranfusing it into Jan whilst Jan rode off to win at the time trail at 2.00pm ! Tell me how he could of transported the blood and then transfused it (takes over an hour) from the call at 12.20pm ! thats 1 hour 40 minutes ! The guy had to warm up, sign in etc. etc. Its not possiable in addtion the travel time from Spain or does Fuentes have a mobile truck full of blood !.... so if its not blood they are talking about what is it ? Something legal instead ? Ullrich is not mentioned in the call and they have not confirmed the number belongs to Rudy P just "a number from Belguim" ! Christ ! This is hardly evidence... if this went to a court of law it would be thrown out and the Spanish Guard know that...... now this is reaching for it !

T-Mobile directeur Rudy Pevenage: “On May 17 at 23.27 Fuentes receives an SMS message from a Belgian number with the following text: ‘Friend, when can we talk for a bit? Rudicio.’ On May 18, at 12.20 Fuentes receives a call from the same number. Busy, he tells the caller to call back later. ‘This evening,’ he tells him. ‘But there’s a time trial,’ is the reply on the day that Ullrich won a time trial at the Giro. These elements lead to the supposition that the identity of ‘Rudicio’ is Rudy Pevenage.”
 

limerickman

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whiteboytrash said:
However the phonecall says that "Rudicio" said "there is a time trial" at 12.20pm on the day of the time trial. Now if Rudy P was shipping in some blood all the way from Spain and then spend an hour tranfusing it into Jan whilst Jan rode off to win at the time trail at 2.00pm ! Tell me how he could of transported the blood and then transfused it (takes over an hour) from the call at 12.20pm ! thats 1 hour 40 minutes ! The guy had to warm up, sign in etc. etc. Its not possiable in addtion the travel time from Spain or does Fuentes have a mobile truck full of blood !.... so if its not blood they are talking about what is it ? Something legal instead ? Ullrich is not mentioned in the call and they have not confirmed the number belongs to Rudy P just "a number from Belguim" ! Christ ! This is hardly evidence... if this went to a court of law it would be thrown out and the Spanish Guard know that...... now this is reaching for it !

T-Mobile directeur Rudy Pevenage: “On May 17 at 23.27 Fuentes receives an SMS message from a Belgian number with the following text: ‘Friend, when can we talk for a bit? Rudicio.’ On May 18, at 12.20 Fuentes receives a call from the same number. Busy, he tells the caller to call back later. ‘This evening,’ he tells him. ‘But there’s a time trial,’ is the reply on the day that Ullrich won a time trial at the Giro. These elements lead to the supposition that the identity of ‘Rudicio’ is Rudy Pevenage.”


But WBT, TMO read enough of the report to conclude that something was afoot between the lab and Pevenage and perhaps JU.

Ullrich's statement of volunteering a DNA sample is a very welcome and positive move by JU.
It is a statement of intent.

If the DNA sample from JU doesn't match the DNA in the labs sample - then JU is in the clear, to the extent that the "JAN" sample is not JU's sample.
 

whiteboytrash

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I have to disagree... T-Mobile suspended the three because it appeared they "lied" about there relationships with Fuentes. They all told T-Mobile management that they didn't know him and the report suggest that they do. I still think there is a lot more to come out from this case. Like I said above the evidence presented thus far is hardly a smoking gun and wouldn't stand up in a court of law. In fact no prosecutor would even go to court with the above. Reasonable doubt is the key and there is a lot of reasonable doubt. Remember only one side has presented. Ullrich needs his time to put his case forward. Ullrich like Armstrong has the financials to fight the case and he will.


limerickman said:
But WBT, TMO read enough of the report to conclude that something was afoot between the lab and Pevenage and perhaps JU.

Ullrich's statement of volunteering a DNA sample is a very welcome and positive move by JU.
It is a statement of intent.

If the DNA sample from JU doesn't match the DNA in the labs sample - then JU is in the clear, to the extent that the "JAN" sample is not JU's sample.
 

wolfix

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Sevilla has been video'ed going to the apartment and has blood to match his on the same dates.

But we know very little of what is happening. There will be more riders suspended before the end of the TDF>
 

bobke

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whiteboytrash said:
I have to disagree... T-Mobile suspended the three because it appeared they "lied" about there relationships with Fuentes. They all told T-Mobile management that they didn't know him and the report suggest that they do. I still think there is a lot more to come out from this case. Like I said above the evidence presented thus far is hardly a smoking gun and wouldn't stand up in a court of law. In fact no prosecutor would even go to court with the above. Reasonable doubt is the key and there is a lot of reasonable doubt. Remember only one side has presented. Ullrich needs his time to put his case forward. Ullrich like Armstrong has the financials to fight the case and he will.
The DNA blood test is only one small part.
If Jan had contact with Fuentes, his Team will want to know why he lied.
The public will want to know.
And the Spanish Civil Guard will too.
So, this is far far from over.
T-Mob let out a statement to the effect that with him as their team leader, it would take a lot more than some whispers or weird code names to convicne them that they had to take action. They said, we took the action so that should speak for itself, Its up to Jan and his lawyers to prove he is innocent.
Thats a very different statement than what CSC is putting out, so clearly management has been told from T-Mob let Jan flap in the wind.
CSC is still letting out that riders are talking to Basso and that Ivan rode 300 km today. Just cause.