Let's Ban Smoking!

[rainrider]

If anyone manages to come up with a workable 'cure' for this addiction they will be a trillionare overnight,tobacco is NOT the problem smoking and inhaling it IS.


"Eat right, exercise, DIE ANYWAY!!! " Yeah but not half as soon....

 

[Carrera]

I already looked myself. The only legal angle you could use, perhaps, would be if the smoking is affecting your health negatively due to allergy or whatever.
But, all in all, I'm already looking at other job possibilities. I've come to realise the only way I can blend in at my present work is to simply give up being fit, smoke and work myself into an early grave and become fat and huff and puff my way up 5 stairs.
I'd rather continue my addiction to dopamine than go down that path.

I've just had a look on the tinternet and it would seem you're out of luck. The only thing your employer is required to do, is to provide a smoke-free rest room. And even then, it isn't a legal requirement, it's on the grounds of health and safety. The best you can do is get another job with a non-smoking firm and there are plenty around. Although a smoker myself, I can sympathize with your situation. But it would seem you're in a no-win war with your employer.

 

[Carrera]

I don't want to sound cruel, either, but I think my gripes over this issue will very soon be proven correct. This guy who's smoking 100 a day has already had a serious heart scare. Now he has this possible tumour. A year ago I warned him he was killing himself but he chose smoking over a future with his family and kids.
He's not going to get away with this kind of self-abuse forever. I'll bet the doctors have already warned him and he ignored them too. His employers don't care so long as he works all the hours they want him to do but where will they be if he remains unfit to work? Where will those wonderful tobacco companies be in the hour of need?
This is a nice enough guy I've known for over 2 years and tobacco has been the ruin of him. He's killing himself slowly and other unfortunates who share his surroundings.

 

[shannons dad]

There may be a reason for his hundred a day habit. Often, when I'm stressed (quite alot lately, one bill after another and no money to pay them!!!) I tend to smoke alot more, sometimes more than twice the norm. Which is a stupid excuse as it's been proven that smoking tobacco actually increases anxiety. Although of no benefit to you personally, his home life may not be quite so rosy, and if he's under pressure from the boss, that won't help matters either. I don't know his age, but a hundred a day will easily kill him within a year or two. Maybe his not-so-concerned employers haven't thought about that. Wouldn't surprise me. One other thing though. Depending on how long you've been subjected to smoke inhallation, you might want to get yourself checked at the docs. Passive smoking is a reality, despite the endless debates.

 

[EoinC]

I've just had a look on the tinternet and it would seem you're out of luck. The only thing your employer is required to do, is to provide a smoke-free rest room. And even then, it isn't a legal requirement, it's on the grounds of health and safety. The best you can do is get another job with a non-smoking firm and there are plenty around. Although a smoker myself, I can sympathize with your situation. But it would seem you're in a no-win war with your employer.

That surprises the **** out of me. The UK hasn't instigated ban's on smoking in public areas and workplaces? These have been in place for a long time in Australia and NZ (and, presumably, USA). Even Thailand has placed a ban on smoking in Bars! Exposure to 2nd hand smoke is a serious issue. Presumably the reason tobacco has not become a prohibited substance is because of a combination of the following:
a) There are still a lot of smokers (voters) out there.
b) Tobacco Companies are strong lobbiests.
c) There are a lot of people (voters) working in the tobacco industry.
d) The Tax revenue (some) governments receive from the sale of tobacco may exceed the expenditure that they make on the associated health issues.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Peka]

That surprises the **** out of me

Me too!

d) The Tax revenue (some) governments receive from the sale of tobacco may exceed the expenditure that they make on the associated health issues.

Any thoughts on this?

I very much doubt that the tax revenue would be more than the public cost of smokers/smoking. I know someone who had a heart attack, then had a bypass (amongst other procedures) and still smokes quite heavily. There's no way that the amount he's paid in tobacco tax has covered the cost of his procedures.

 

[EoinC]

Me too!

I very much doubt that the tax revenue would be more than the public cost of smokers/smoking. I know someone who had a heart attack, then had a bypass (amongst other procedures) and still smokes quite heavily. There's no way that the amount he's paid in tobacco tax has covered the cost of his procedures.

Maybe not as an idividual, Peka. But there's a lot of smokers out there with a lot of tax being generated (I think a pack of durries in Aussie is about 10x the price of the same thing over here) to cover the spread. Our governments are happy to take the stand of declaring smoking to be a health hazard to smokers and those around them, but will not make any decisive move down the path of prohibition. I have not seen any significant move to prevent speople starting smoking (other than advertising & warning labels). I feel that, as long as the governments are collecting taxes from the sale of tobacco, they are tacitly supporting its use. What's the solution? I don't know. Probably the greatest thing that has been achieved is the turning of society from one which took smoking as being a rite of passage to one in which smoking is no longer regarded favourably.

 

[shannons dad]

Smoking in public places has been banned in Republic of Ireland with success. Over here in England, banning is on a trial in some cities including London and Leeds I think. Won't be long before it becomes widespsread. The goverment has debated whether or not to introduce it into work places but so far nothings become of it. The biggest effort they've made to reduce the number of smokers is too increase the price by a few pence every year and force the tobacco companies to clearly state the risks of smoking on the packets. As far as I know, it's had bugger all effect. Alot of people who don't want to pay the high prices get it cheap by other means, including myself, usually through 'a friend of a friend.' Making it completely illegal to smoke at all would only reduce the problem as smokers would soon find a way around the law, legally or illegally. The only way smoking will ever disappear is if the whole world woke up to the dangers and quit. Personally, I can't see that happening anytime soon, if ever. Bummer.

 

[limerickman]

Just a word on the smoking ban here in the Republic.
The ban was brought in to protect the health of people working in workplaces where smoking was prevalent (bars, restaurants for example).
The Minister for Health initiated the ban on smoking in the workplace to protect
the health of management and staff.
The compliance rate has been so far 93% (according to the papers).

So if I was a smoker and was out in the pub/restaurant, I would have to go outside the premises and light up.

The general reaction to this policy from the public has been very positive -
being able to go out to a pub/restaurant and eat/drink in a clean air atmosphere
is great for the punters and for the staff working in those places.

I think Scotland is looking at introducing the same type of ban as well (if they haven't already done so).

 

[Carrera]

Exercise is a far more effective way to combat stress than smoking. The kind of cycling I do involves so much physical stress and sweat, my brain releases dozens of chemicals to cope with the training. These drugs make you feel far better than anything derived from smoking.
I sometimes wonder whether this is why there have been so many suicides or deaths amongst cyclists who stopped competing. Pantani for example. If I suddenly stopped riding I would get hit by depression and all sort of troubles.

There may be a reason for his hundred a day habit. Often, when I'm stressed (quite alot lately, one bill after another and no money to pay them!!!) I tend to smoke alot more, sometimes more than twice the norm. Which is a stupid excuse as it's been proven that smoking tobacco actually increases anxiety. Although of no benefit to you personally, his home life may not be quite so rosy, and if he's under pressure from the boss, that won't help matters either. I don't know his age, but a hundred a day will easily kill him within a year or two. Maybe his not-so-concerned employers haven't thought about that. Wouldn't surprise me. One other thing though. Depending on how long you've been subjected to smoke inhallation, you might want to get yourself checked at the docs. Passive smoking is a reality, despite the endless debates.

 

[shannons dad]

Exercise is a far more effective way to combat stress than smoking. The kind of cycling I do involves so much physical stress and sweat, my brain releases dozens of chemicals to cope with the training. These drugs make you feel far better than anything derived from smoking.
I sometimes wonder whether this is why there have been so many suicides or deaths amongst cyclists who stopped competing. Pantani for example. If I suddenly stopped riding I would get hit by depression and all sort of troubles.

That maybe true, but when you're a smoker, another smoke is the first thing to enter your mind.

 

[Carrera]

This is my point. I know how things stand. Not wanting to sound high and mighty but the smokers around me I often see as addicts. You can see how they twitch and fidget if there's a class and they can't smoke. Or maybe they think, "Well, maybe nobody will object if I break the rules and quench my habit."
It's that second situation that p++++s me off most. I only start getting irritated when I myself am forced to suffer from smoking and have it imposed on me.
Most of the people I work with chose not to value their health. It's a decision they made. This means, first thing they do in the morning before even eating anything is smoke. I've seen it first hand. And when I visit the local graveyards, I can see the average age of death is only around 55 - 60 years old.
Myself, for various reasons, I chose to look after my health while I have it. I believe the quality of my life will be better if I show self-discipline, get my ass out to the gym or on the bike and make the effort. I respect the decision of others not to bother exercising or to smoke so long as their decision isn't imposed on me.
It frustrates me I seem to be the odd one out, though. It seems like all the people around me at work seem to go running for their next fix at the least sign of stress. The slightest physical demand and they are gasping for air.

That maybe true, but when you're a smoker, another smoke is the first thing to enter your mind.

 

[shannons dad]

This is my point. I know how things stand. Not wanting to sound high and mighty but the smokers around me I often see as addicts. You can see how they twitch and fidget if there's a class and they can't smoke. Or maybe they think, "Well, maybe nobody will object if I break the rules and quench my habit."
It's that second situation that p++++s me off most. I only start getting irritated when I myself am forced to suffer from smoking and have it imposed on me.
Most of the people I work with chose not to value their health. It's a decision they made. This means, first thing they do in the morning before even eating anything is smoke. I've seen it first hand. And when I visit the local graveyards, I can see the average age of death is only around 55 - 60 years old.
Myself, for various reasons, I chose to look after my health while I have it. I believe the quality of my life will be better if I show self-discipline, get my ass out to the gym or on the bike and make the effort. I respect the decision of others not to bother exercising or to smoke so long as their decision isn't imposed on me.
It frustrates me I seem to be the odd one out, though. It seems like all the people around me at work seem to go running for their next fix at the least sign of stress. The slightest physical demand and they are gasping for air.

I understand how you feel, I wasn't always a smoker. I started just before my 21st birthday. But it isn't the case that smokers don't care about their health, most of us do. Most people when they start are either too young to realize the risks involved, too stupid, or both. I was both. I'll be 29 on the 7th and realized what a pillock I was a few years ago. Unfortunately way too late. It is true though that there are a lot of ignorant smokers who couldn't care less about those who suffer because of their habit. Quitting is unbelievably difficult though. If you've noticed the fidgeting and twitchiness of a smoker who hasn't had a fix for a few hours, you can imagine what it's like after 2-3 days. Close to madness. No amount of patches, gum or alternative habits can fix that.

 

[jhuskey]

[.
I sometimes wonder whether this is why there have been so many suicides or deaths amongst cyclists who stopped competing. Pantani for example. If I suddenly stopped riding I would get hit by depression and all sort of troubles.


You may have a very good point there. I would tend to agree with you on this one.

 

[Carrera]

Yes, I would never just stop riding just like that. Can you imagine how that would be? Imagine the amount of natural chemicals pumped into your brain when you're pushing yourself uphill at 14 miles an hour?
I think the amount of exercise I do may not be so healthy. They now say that just 3 half hour sessions of intense cycling for a layman will reduce his heart-attack risk by 50 per cent. This is all the average guy needs. But myself I ride for the high as well. It's like martyrdom on wheels
I enjoy a drink and opt for guiness and red wine. I drink more than I ought to but I would never smoke.

[.
I sometimes wonder whether this is why there have been so many suicides or deaths amongst cyclists who stopped competing. Pantani for example. If I suddenly stopped riding I would get hit by depression and all sort of troubles.


You may have a very good point there. I would tend to agree with you on this one.

 

[EoinC]

Just a word on the smoking ban here in the Republic.
The ban was brought in to protect the health of people working in workplaces where smoking was prevalent (bars, restaurants for example).
The Minister for Health initiated the ban on smoking in the workplace to protect
the health of management and staff...

It's been interesting to watch the changes in Australian society's view of smoking over the last 10 years or so. The roles have pretty much reversed. Whilst smokers may not have been the majority, they certainly used to appear as though they were. Since the implimentation of bans on smoking in the workplace, smokers are definitely on the back foot. Smokers have to go outside to light up and their absence is noticed by all around. Smoking is definitely on the agenda as a health issue and, if the government is unable (or unwilling) to prevent new smokers from appearing, it has at least prevented the non-smokers from having to endure 2nd hand smoke.
As each piece of legislation came into play (bars etc used to be exempt), there were calls about how the economy would shut down, but the reality does not reflect this.
Perhaps the most effective deterrent currently in place is that smoking has become socially unacceptable. This doesn't help those who are smokers already, but it may reduce the number of new starters.
The Tobacco Companies, seeing their Western markets dwindle, have turned their focus squarely upon the so-called Third World Countries who are only in the early throes of working to minimise tobacco usage. Many of the Countries I have worked in, still have huge Billboards promoting smoking as being an integral part of a cool / civilised / healthy lifestyle. I don't mind people smoking (although I don't enjoy being surrounded by smoke) - I used to smoke myself for many years. What I don't like is the Tobacco Companies pretending it is anything other than what it is, and promoting it as such to people who do not have the same access as us to information to the contrary. That, to me, seems to be a form of abuse.

 

[wolfix]

But what I see around me is a lot of folks just not giving 2 hoots about their health.

It's all about personal responsibility. People have become "Let's blame them for our problems." This brings up a interesting angle on something Carrera..... You think the government should take care of these people with nationalistic health care. They are free to destroy their health and then when the inevitable happens , I should pay to solve their problem ??? I should go without something , pay higher taxes so these people can continue their bad behavior? Who is the selfish one here ?
Carrera, I am going to give you a back-handed compliment here as I oppose your political views...... You seem to be the sort of person who takes personal responsibility for themselves. You ride your bike to maintain good health, you work to carry your load in society, and I have a feeling you generally are a good citizen. If everyone was like you we would not be having this "discussion." But human nature is that there is a segment of society that are not. People are selfish. I admit to enjoying a good unfiltered Camel once every 3-4 days. I smoke 3 packs a year.... And yes, it is a selfish thing. {I smoke only in my place and never if it offends anyone.}
I heard something once that I found interesting ....."When you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointed back at you." I think that saying is a good philosophy to adopt in ones own life.

 

[Carrera]

My main objection I think is to selfishness. The situation seems to be getting worse over here. I mean, nobody considers other people, only their own interests and desires.
So, if someone wants to play music full blast at 1.00 a.m., they do it. If someone wants to smoke, that's fine by me. But can't they at least ask if it's O.K. with others in the same room?
When I ask smokers why they smoke, they often respond that life is short and they'd rather run the risk and enjoy things, rather than grunt and sweat like I do. It's a reasonable point. The problem is, many smokers will light up in the same room as you happen to be in, the smoke clings to your clothes and you suffer from passive smoking.
The exercise, though, I see as a personal choice. But I tell people that, according to the latest studies, a man or woman who does just half an hour of cardio 3 - 4 times a week runs a 50 per cent less chance of developing heart problems.

It's all about personal responsibility. People have become "Let's blame them for our problems." This brings up a interesting angle on something Carrera..... You think the government should take care of these people with nationalistic health care. They are free to destroy their health and then when the inevitable happens , I should pay to solve their problem ??? I should go without something , pay higher taxes so these people can continue their bad behavior? Who is the selfish one here ?
Carrera, I am going to give you a back-handed compliment here as I oppose your political views...... You seem to be the sort of person who takes personal responsibility for themselves. You ride your bike to maintain good health, you work to carry your load in society, and I have a feeling you generally are a good citizen. If everyone was like you we would not be having this "discussion." But human nature is that there is a segment of society that are not. People are selfish. I admit to enjoying a good unfiltered Camel once every 3-4 days. I smoke 3 packs a year.... And yes, it is a selfish thing. {I smoke only in my place and never if it offends anyone.}
I heard something once that I found interesting ....."When you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointed back at you." I think that saying is a good philosophy to adopt in ones own life.

 

[Induray]

This is a touchy subject similar to obesity with the exception that it has a direct effect on the people around them (smokers). I have to elderly neighbors that we have gotten to know and love. The drawback is they(actually she) is a heavy smoker. I can't go visit them to their house because I would suffocate. It breaks my heart everytime they give us cookies or chocolates etc. We have to trash them immediately because it smells like an ashtray. No matter how much the wrap and ziplock the contents. They are always sick and we are watching them die slowly. It is very disheartening.
I have learned not to criticize others, or give them an evil look or talk behind their backs...it is simply not worth it and usually it does not help the situation.I do enforce "no -smoking laws" if somebody is infringing it and it is affecting me. I do not frequent bar/restaurants or areas where smoking is allowed period. It is their life.
Live and Let Die!

 

[shannons dad]

You think the government should take care of these people with nationalistic health care. They are free to destroy their health and then when the inevitable happens , I should pay to solve their problem ??? I should go without something , pay higher taxes so these people can continue their bad behavior? Who is the selfish one here ?

Does this mean you are going to give up cycling? Who fixes you when you crash your bike and break a bone or worse? Would you give up drinking (if you do)? Who fixes you when you develope liver failure? Would you give up work due to the risks of accidents happening, or having the stairs in your home removed in case you trip and fall down them, or if you drive, would you give up your car due to exhaust gases causing asthma? The government,s NHS is funded by taxpayers, including smokers for one reason only, to enable EVERYBODY to recieve the same level of treatment. Your taxes are also used to fund research into cures and treatment for all diseases and conditions including cancer. Imagine if we were all able to dictate how our taxes were spent. This would be a very sorry country indeed.