I am not a believer.jbvcoaching said:On 4/26/97, he did 384W NP for 4 hours, only 310 AP though. Pretty turny, undulating course, and he was only solo for the last hour or so.
That's assuming his SRM was calibrated correctly.
I am not a believer.jbvcoaching said:On 4/26/97, he did 384W NP for 4 hours, only 310 AP though. Pretty turny, undulating course, and he was only solo for the last hour or so.
That's assuming his SRM was calibrated correctly.
Which don't you believe? That the FTP of the prior year's TdF winner was between 5.5 and 6.0W/kg (I'm assuming 70-75kg), or that he could produce ~90% of FTP (normalized) for 4 hours?yzfrr11 said:I am not a believer.
https://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/freeinfo/going_uphill_fast.htmljbvcoaching said:Which don't you believe? That the FTP of the prior year's TdF winner was between 5.5 and 6.0W/kg (I'm assuming 70-75kg), or that he could produce ~90% of FTP (normalized) for 4 hours?
With all the other numbers getting bandied about by some of the folks on this list...these seem quite believable.
That article refers to his weight in July of 1996, Amstel took place in April of 1997. 2kg "heavy" in April is not a stretch for most pros.rmur17 said:https://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/freeinfo/going_uphill_fast.html
this article states 150 lbs / 68 kg ... he looked Rasmussen-like to me ....
1996 and 1997.jbvcoaching said:That article refers to his weight in July of 2006, Amstel took place in April of 2007. 2kg "heavy" in April is not a stretch for most pros.
okay he was on the Kaiser roll eating plan that winter! In TdF shape he looked like skin & bones to me.jbvcoaching said:That article refers to his weight in July of 1996, Amstel took place in April of 1997. 2kg "heavy" in April is not a stretch for most pros.
Doesn't look anything like Rasmussen here:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/1997/BJARNE3AM.JPG
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/1997/BJARNE1AM.JPG
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/1997/BJARNE2AM.JPG
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/1997/BJARNE5AM.JPG
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/1997/riis97.gif
Even at 68kg, that only gets his FTP just over 6W/kg...again, I've got no problem believing that one. In fact, it seems low given what we now know about what was going on in 1997, and the riders/teams he beat.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/apr97/amstel97b.html
Edited to correct years. Thanks Robert!
I just read it quickly; the core of the book are different HIT (High Intensity Trainings) described. HIT is like the key to performance, according to the author. For a layman, most of those seem to be based on different tests performed and reported in the PubMed, at least several protocols are 1:1.Barrel said:Have any of you ever read book of Michael J. Ross; "Maximum Performance for Cyclists" (2005) 193138262X and were thoughts about it?
ccrnnr9 said:I guess where my biggest misunderstanding comes from is how to structure this? Still being a cat5 and one that intends to do RR's and TT's only this season .....where should the emphasis be?
Nick,ccrnnr9 said:I guess what I am saying is that I don't understand why people don't emphasize a mix of different training intensities and durations. Assuming I am riding 7days/week, I do probably 3-4 of those as L4 workouts, 1-2 as L1 workouts depending on my fatigue level, and always have at least one L3 (maybe L2) ride. Once I am around 6-8weeks out from the beginning of the season, I will start to add in L5 interval training and other higher intensity training.
~Nick
I agree. I was just making a point in case someone were to be reading the thread and were to get confused. I think sometimes people tend to get into these arguments too much and that leads people to believe that a solid training regimen is either A or B and not a combo thereof. Sorry for the confusion.otb4evr said:Nick,
Take a look around. You will find that the vast majority of the people here do recommend a mix of different training intensities and durations.
What you will find, though, is that general questions bring general answers and specific questions bring specific answers. If you are asking about what "base" is thought to be vs. how to prepare for a season of crits, you will likely get a different answer.
Jim
Nick,ccrnnr9 said:I agree. I was just making a point in case someone were to be reading the thread and were to get confused. I think sometimes people tend to get into these arguments too much and that leads people to believe that a solid training regimen is either A or B and not a combo thereof. Sorry for the confusion.
~Nick
woodgab said:Taking the L2 position.
Breaking ranks a bit here, but don't be surprised if the cumulative attacks during a road race leave you dropped. Lots of L4 and some L3 aren't going to physically, or mentally, train you to withstand all of the bursts that racing will force out of you. Its quite possible you will become a "pack" finisher with too strict a L4 routine.
For TT's, I can understand the heavy L4, but even then, some L5 (~1-5min) is called for to develop your V02 max and trigger bigger gains in FTP. I don't think I'm breaking ranks with "training with power" to say this. I was just reading the Normalized vs Average power section this morning. The very fact that NP is apt to be much higher than AP during a road race speaks to your ability to survive the surges that will take you well past threshold for what will seem like *interminable periods* if all you've done is threshold work.
Last season, all I did was TT's and some group rides. Lots of 2 X 20's, with 3 and 5 X 4's mixed in. All I wanted to do was nail 12k (~20min) TT cources. At season's end, according to Coggan's chart, I was upper cat3 for FTP (~3.9w/kg), but a full catagory behind in 5 second and 1 minute durations. I knew how bad it felt when L5/L6 power was needed to bridge, or power over rollers.
Before I go further on how its going, I should explain that I am not here to be troll, or throw gasoline around. My reason for returning is bridging the gap between insufficient weekly TSS and what an appropriate base is. L2 is NOT worthless in my eyes and is a key reason why Pro/1/2 riders are relaxed as they lap at 27-30mph(~40kph) on-season.
More than 2 months in, after I had gotten over a wild insecurity about dumping all my threshold work, it started to hit me that strength and fitness weren't the same thing. One can go up while the other goes down. I went out one morning to my usual 1.5mi, ~3-4minute interval spot and, to my surprise was able to average within 10 watts of my PR. This was without doing ANY L4, for months. I reasoned three things. Low cadence hill work, squats/lunges and being in the road vs TT position. I was panting like a dog, but told myself in November and December I shouldn't care and continued working.
I don't even know what my FTP is right now, but zone 2 watts are definitely higher at given heart rates.
Going at level 4 a lot isn't easy, but I believe being there too much fosters insecurity about stepping back to work on different zones/weaknesses. Letting go of FTP becomes a horrifying thought, if steady L4 is your mantra. In my case, if I can regain my FTP, without adapting added power, nothing will be gained. If I can't regain FTP, I'm in real trouble. But if the same, or higher, FTP comes back with a properly developed sprint, running cat4/5 should be a real blast this year
Thanks! I have already seen about a 10-15% increase in my FTP since mid December. This is all calculated and is not perfectly accurate, but regardless, I am definately making improvements. Good luck to you as well!otb4evr said:Nick,
Not a problem.
Personally, I think you have the right idea about your training approach and am curious to see how you do this season.
Good Luck.
Jim
ccrnnr9 said:Thanks! I have already seen about a 10-15% increase in my FTP since mid December. This is all calculated and is not perfectly accurate, but regardless, I am definately making improvements. Good luck to you as well!
Roadie, you refer to Coggan's chart in your post. I have been searching on google but cannot find it anywhere. Is it online or just in his book? Every once in awhile people refer to a chart that lists average power or avg relative power #'s that equate to a certain racing level (cat5, cat2, etc). I would be interested in looking at that as well as a chart that has a general ranking for relative power in males. Right now I am at around 3.56 watts/kg for my 20minutes and ~3.2 watts/kg for 1hour.
~Nick
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