Levi should have won TdF?



All,

Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
to win the Tour de France?

In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.

It seems to me that the Discovery Channel strategy was to preserve
Contador's white jersey for sure, and that by having Levi work for
Contador they could make a reasonable try at the yellow without
risking the white jersey.

Given that Levi Leipheimer was the nominal leader of the team, it
seemed to me that in the absence of Rasmussen, or if Contador had
worked with Levi anything like 50/50, or even if Rasmussen had been
withdrawn early enough for Levi and Contador to race head-to-head in
mountain stages, then Levi would have won the Tour de France.

I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
something?

Thoughts?

Eric
 
Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15. If there was any criticism, it was that Contador was getting a lack of support, not Leipheimer. Leipheimer was clearly the back-up option.

Cycling's a team sport, something which is easy to forget. It's not "may the best man win". Discovery showed they were the best team. Leipheimer benefitted from that strength, just as Contador did. Leipheimer would not have been better off, for example, on Gerolsteiner.

[email protected] wrote:
> All,
>
> Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
> to win the Tour de France?
>
> In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
> than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
> trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
> left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.
>
> It seems to me that the Discovery Channel strategy was to preserve
> Contador's white jersey for sure, and that by having Levi work for
> Contador they could make a reasonable try at the yellow without
> risking the white jersey.
>
> Given that Levi Leipheimer was the nominal leader of the team, it
> seemed to me that in the absence of Rasmussen, or if Contador had
> worked with Levi anything like 50/50, or even if Rasmussen had been
> withdrawn early enough for Levi and Contador to race head-to-head in
> mountain stages, then Levi would have won the Tour de France.
>
> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> something?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Eric
>
 
On Aug 6, 12:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> All,
>
> Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
> to win the Tour de France?
>
> In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
> than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
> trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
> left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.
>
> It seems to me that the Discovery Channel strategy was to preserve
> Contador's white jersey for sure, and that by having Levi work for
> Contador they could make a reasonable try at the yellow without
> risking the white jersey.
>
> Given that Levi Leipheimer was the nominal leader of the team, it
> seemed to me that in the absence of Rasmussen, or if Contador had
> worked with Levi anything like 50/50, or even if Rasmussen had been
> withdrawn early enough for Levi and Contador to race head-to-head in
> mountain stages, then Levi would have won the Tour de France.
>
> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> something?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Eric


You must have only watched the last climbing stage and the final TT,
as those were the only days Levi showed any real strength at all. As
for attacking Rasmussen, I almost spit my coffee out when I read
that. Levi himself admits he can't attack and from my recollection he
didn't attack once until after Rasmussen was sent home from the tour.
 
On Aug 6, 8:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:

> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> something?
>
> Thoughts?


My thoughts are: not only didn't you see every stage in detail, you
didn't see any stage in detail.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 6, 8:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
>> something?
>>
>> Thoughts?

>
> My thoughts are: not only didn't you see every stage in detail, you
> didn't see any stage in detail.


I agree completely.

On the other hand - if Levi had had more support and if he had been stronger
starting in the second week instead of the third, he had a very good chance
of beating Rassmussen hands down.

And if pigs had wings maybe they could fly.
 
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:10:22 -0000, [email protected] wrote:

>Should this have been Levi's year
>to win the Tour de France?


No.

Next question.

> I didn't see every stage in detail, I
> admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> something?


Perhaps.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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On Aug 6, 7:00 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:10:22 -0000, [email protected] wrote:
> >Should this have been Levi's year
> >to win the Tour de France?

>
> No.
>
> Next question.
>
> > I didn't see every stage in detail, I
> > admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> > something?

>
> Perhaps.
> --
> JT
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************


You missed the detail in the stages.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> All,
>
> In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
> than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
> trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
> left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.
>

Err, you're confusing Contador and Liepheimer. Contador was the one
attacking Rasmussen while Levi just followed. The right rider won.
 
monsler wrote:
> In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
> than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
> trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
> left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.


> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
> something?
>
> Thoughts?


I think your satellite dish must be very valuable. It seems to be able to
pick up transmissions from alternate universes, like something out of the
twilight zone.
 
On Aug 6, 1:44 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15.


According to Contador, he was calling for Leipheimer to wait for him,
but apparently the message didn't get through.

Andy Coggan
 
Andy Coggan wrote:
> On Aug 6, 1:44 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>> Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15.

>
> According to Contador, he was calling for Leipheimer to wait for him,
> but apparently the message didn't get through.
>
> Andy Coggan
>


Maybe they need that Motorola sponsorship again -- Brajkovic seemed to have the same problem:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/georgia07/?id=results/georgia075
 
On Aug 7, 1:58 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> Andy Coggan wrote:
> > On Aug 6, 1:44 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
> >> Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15.

>
> > According to Contador, he was calling for Leipheimer to wait for him,
> > but apparently the message didn't get through.

>
> > Andy Coggan

>
> Maybe they need that Motorola sponsorship again


Or Phonak.

Andy Coggan
 
Donald Munro wrote:
> monsler wrote:
>> In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
>> than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
>> trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
>> left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.

>
>> I didn't see every stage in detail, I admit. Perhaps I missed seeing
>> something?
>>
>> Thoughts?

>
> I think your satellite dish must be very valuable. It seems to be able to
> pick up transmissions from alternate universes, like something out of the
> twilight zone.
>


His newsgroup reader is special too. It seems to have thrown a July
posting nearly a week into August.

Those toys! Where does he get those wonderful toys?
 
Kyle Legate <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > In stages that I watched, he appeared to be significantly stronger
> > than Contador. In several, he was relentlessly attaching Rasmussen,
> > trying to crack him, while Contador just followed. Yet Levi was never
> > left behind at the finish by Rasmussen and Contador.
> >

> Err, you're confusing Contador and Liepheimer. Contador was the one
> attacking Rasmussen while Levi just followed. The right rider won.


Ofly If you agree that the second best rider won.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
 
Andy Coggan wrote:
> On Aug 6, 1:44 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> wrote:
>> Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15.

>
> According to Contador, he was calling for Leipheimer to wait for him,
> but apparently the message didn't get through.
>
> Andy Coggan
>


Well if he bothered to learn English he might have gotten the message.
 
On Aug 6, 12:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> All,
>
> Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
> to win the Tour de France?


Maybe it will still happen.

Hypothetical:
(1) Contador admits Puerto involvement and relinquishes maillot jaune.
(2) Evans is subsequently found (positive, guilty) of (fill in the
blank) from some time in (fill iny year) and is retroactively
suspended (after all appeals have failed).
(3) Levi is given the win of the 2007 Tour and on the same day* as
the announcement of the 2006 winner (whoever that may be).

DR

* Probably some time in 2009
 
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:46:00 -0700, DirtRoadie <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 6, 12:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
>> to win the Tour de France?

>
>Maybe it will still happen.
>
>Hypothetical:
>(1) Contador admits Puerto involvement and relinquishes maillot jaune.
>(2) Evans is subsequently found (positive, guilty) of (fill in the
>blank) from some time in (fill iny year) and is retroactively
>suspended (after all appeals have failed).
>(3) Levi is given the win of the 2007 Tour and on the same day* as
>the announcement of the 2006 winner (whoever that may be).
>
>DR
>
> * Probably some time in 2009


Don't forget the possibility that Levi, Kid or Cadel could be decreed out of
existence and their names scrubbed from the record book any time in the next few
decades. The Puerto stuff seems to be sticking to Contador in a fairly alarming
way.

The way the Tour's been going lately it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they just
announced that Contador shouldn't have been invited therefore cannot have won.
This would leave the future Benjo trying to explain why Cadel and Levi were
wheelsuckers when there were only ghosts on the road ahead of them.

Ron
 
DirtRoadie <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 12:10 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Something I have not seen discussed: Should this have been Levi's year
> > to win the Tour de France?


> Maybe it will still happen.


> Hypothetical:
> (1) Contador admits Puerto involvement and relinquishes maillot jaune.
> (2) Evans is subsequently found (positive, guilty) of (fill in the
> blank) from some time in (fill iny year) and is retroactively
> suspended (after all appeals have failed).
> (3) Levi is given the win of the 2007 Tour and on the same day* as
> the announcement of the 2006 winner (whoever that may be).


It's more likely that Sastre will be declared winner of both the 06
and the 07 edition (and get the 06 vuelta as a well deserved bonus).


--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.
 
On Aug 7, 5:52 pm, Araxen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy Coggan wrote:
> > On Aug 6, 1:44 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
> > wrote:
> >> Discovery's goal was to win the tour, not to have Levi win, nor to have Contador win. Coming out of Alpes, Contador had a better GC position, which he solidified with the W on stage 14. Still, despite convention, Discovery allowed Leipheimer to work for himself, as he dropped Contador toward the finish and took what could have been valuable bonus seconds on stage 15.

>
> > According to Contador, he was calling for Leipheimer to wait for him,
> > but apparently the message didn't get through.

>
> > Andy Coggan

>
> Well if he bothered to learn English he might have gotten the message.


Let me guess: you're from the US, aren't you?

Andy Coggan (who only speaks English, but still doesn't expect that
everyone else in the world learn the language)
 
On Aug 9, 12:23 pm, Morten Reippuert Knudsen<[email protected]> wrote:

> It's more likely that Sastre will be declared winner of both the 06
> and the 07 edition (and get the 06 vuelta as a well deserved bonus).


Ushering in a new era. Instead of records like "X grand tours won in Y
years" or "X consecutive wins" we may soon have "X grand tours won in
1 day" or "X simultaneous wins."

DR