Liability of neighborhood bike repair?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Robert Canon, Feb 7, 2004.

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  1. Robert Canon

    Robert Canon Guest

    I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires etc.
    Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome steel
    rims, stamped brakes, and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any
    maintenance. I adjust the brakes the best I can without replacing parts and tell the kid his brakes
    need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.

    I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
    adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get hurt but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to
    claim the kid's bike was in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt.
    Anybody been in a similar situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up their tires then tell the kids
    to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a tune up?
     
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  2. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Anybody been in a similar situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up
    their
    > tires then tell the kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a
    > tune up?

    At my shop, we ended up making up some liability waivers for customers to sign. It was kind of a
    grim job, but we felt we needed to do something. We'd explain that something was going to cost $50
    to fix and they'd usually say "No..too expensive.." and we'd ask them to put that in writing, which
    they generally did. I don't know how well that would stand up in court, but for marginal stuff at
    least it gave us a fighting chance. We were never sued in the 10 years I was there for anything
    related to negligence, but this is in Canada, not the U.S. I think there are a few legal-types that
    hang around here with some better opinions than I can give for sure. It would be unfortunate if
    you're trying to do a neighbourly thing and they sue your ass when the kid crashes and busts his
    nose, wouldn't it?!?! But, that's a possibility, especially in the U.S. I suspect.

    Cheers,

    Scott..
     
  3. Rocketman

    Rocketman Guest

    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
    > etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome
    > steel rims, stamped
    brakes,
    > and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any maintenance. I adjust the
    > brakes the best I can without replacing parts
    and
    > tell the kid his brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
    >
    > I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
    > adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get
    hurt
    > but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to claim the kid's bike
    was
    > in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt. Anybody been in a similar
    > situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up
    their
    > tires then tell the kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a
    > tune up?

    Well said, Robert. Your trepidations would seem to be quite reasonable in our utterly self-focused
    society of pandemic self-declared victimhood (conferred authoritatively by the court system).

    A couple of years ago, we had a 7-yr-old neighbor boy come over and ring our doorbell at 7:30am. He
    needed a ride to school, because his mom was at work. We had never met him before. He lived in the
    apartment building next door, which was known for its high turnover of low-income families. Of
    course we wanted to help him; but we also had to stop and think about it: What if something happens
    to him at school, and it gets blamed on us? If he disappears from school, will the cops be looking
    for our car, and arrest us as suspected kidnappers? Can we say "no" to a child because of such otherwise-
    ridiculous trepidations? It's a sad choice to have to even consider. My only response was to help
    the little guy. I ended up taking him to school many times. I refuse to stop helping people because
    of fears of lawsuit; but that doesn't mean the fears aren't well founded.

    Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.

    Rocketman
     
  4. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:27:06 GMT, "Robert Canon"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    <[email protected]>:

    >I'm worried a kid will get hurt but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to claim the kid's
    >bike was in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt.

    Not "nly in America" sadly. Our local bike campaign have a "Dr. Bike" session, but the bike
    mechanics will only list the things they have found, and never fix them. What are the chances of
    getting reasonably priced public liability insurance? Thought not.

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  5. Q.

    Q. Guest

    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
    > etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome
    > steel rims, stamped
    brakes,
    > and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any maintenance. I adjust the
    > brakes the best I can without replacing parts
    and
    > tell the kid his brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
    >
    > I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
    > adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get
    hurt
    > but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to claim the kid's bike
    was
    > in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt. Anybody been in a similar
    > situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up
    their
    > tires then tell the kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a
    > tune up?

    OKay, it's cool what you're doing, but let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute ...

    There is a perception that the last person to touch the thing owns it. I had to deal with this when
    I worked for the cable company. Even if all I had to do that day was reconnect the service (5 minute
    job) if the quality control dufus decided to check it out I would be backcharged for any problems
    ... including stuff that was done 10 years ago. I've worked at a few repair shops where you would
    fix little problems that you didn't get paid for because you just knew when you returned the item
    you would get blamed for it. Once you touch something and get yourself involved you do take on a
    certain responsibility.

    Also, do you know what you're doing? What kind of expertise do you have in bicycle repair? That's
    exactly the kind of question the lawyer for a dead kid would ask you ... basically, what the hell
    made you think you knew how to fix bicycles?

    I'll never forget a guy who was trying to eek out a living as a car mechanic working out of his
    garage. He was a friend of a friend and was trying to get my business ... by showing off his "hot
    rod" car. He proudly pointed out that the motor was so well balanced that it didn't need a harmonic
    balancer. I started to point out there is a reason for it ... it's not simply a gravitational
    balancer but also a harmonic dampener. He didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Suffice to
    say he didn't get my business, and I doubt that motor lasted very long either.

    I guess it all depends on how confident you are in your own repair skills ... you're putting a lot
    on the line here. Are you really that good? Also, it's one thing to do a favor for an adult, if you
    tell an adult that the bike needs X to function correctly and it needs to be taken into a shop then
    it's their fault if they ignore you. A jury might buy that. With a child is a totally different
    situation. A lawyer may very well ask you "what the hell were you thinking letting a child ride away
    on a bike you knew to be unsafe?"

    Personally, I only work on kids bikes if I know the parents very well ... and I only do it with the
    parents involved and I explain to them what I'm doing, and I make certain the parents understand any
    safety concerns. I'm not afraid to tell them "I wouldn't let my kid ride this bike like this". If I
    don't know the parents that well, then the most I'll do is tell them to go to a LBS. I would *never*
    work on a kids bike without full communication with the parents regardless.

    C.Q.C.
     
  6. If you don't charge for the repairs, you might have liability coverage under your homeowner's or
    tenant's policy because it is not a business pursuit. (I should add that this would only work for
    the first claim. You would likely be cancelled after they had to defend you for the first claim)

    You should check with your own insurance agent to verify the coverage. You might want to read your
    policy yourself, because the mere idea that you might do charitable bicycle repairs, might give an
    insurance company an excuse to cancel your policy or the agent to ask too many questions.
     
  7. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Sat, 07 Feb 2004 19:27:06 GMT, <[email protected]>,
    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Any thoughts? Stop at airing up their tires then tell the kids to tell their clueless parents to
    >take their bike to a bike shop for a tune up?

    Perhaps the repairs could be offered as 'instruction'. Let the kids handle the tools so that they're
    fixing their own bikes.
    --
    zk
     
  8. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:49:49 -0800, Zoot Katz <[email protected]>
    wrote in message <[email protected]>:

    >Perhaps the repairs could be offered as 'instruction'. Let the kids handle the tools so that
    >they're fixing their own bikes.

    Now *that* is a good idea!

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  9. >Perhaps the repairs could be offered as 'instruction'. Let the kids handle the tools so that
    >they're fixing their own bikes.

    Picture yourself in a full-day deposition:

    Attorney (A):

    Mr. Smith (S), What special training and/or certifications do you have in the area of
    bicycle repair?

    N:

    Well, I know a lot about bikes, and have fixed them for years.

    O:

    I repeat, have you had any special training in bike repair, or do you have any certifications or do
    you have any training in how to teach children about bike repair?

    P: Well, I guess not.

    Q:

    After Johnny left your garage that fateful morning, his loose handlebars would not let him turn away
    from the street sign, and he hit it full head on. Mr. Smith, are you aware that Johnny will be
    permanently disfigured as a result of that accident?

    R:

    Yes, I had heard that.

    S:

    How was it that Johnny got out of your garage with loose handlebars?

    T:

    Well, I guess Johnny did not tighten the bars properly.

    U:

    Do you consider that Johnny has the knowledge and training to know how to tighten his handlebars?

    V:

    Well, I guess not.

    Did you have some sort of an inspection system to be sure that the bikes were completely safe prior
    ro leaving your garage?

    W:

    Well, I tried.

    X: Do you have some sort of checklist where every part is checked for safety?

    Y: Well, sort of in my mind.

    Z: Do you have a record of your checklist? Can I see it?

    Z: No, as I said, I just sort of kept it in my head.

    Z:

    How was it that his bike was not fully inspected by you prior to his leaving your garage?

    Z:

    Well, I was busy with another kid, and I guess he just got out the door.

    Z:

    Did Johnny's parents know that you were fixing his bike?

    Z:

    Well, he just dropped by.

    Z:

    Did you have their permission?

    Z:

    Well, I never asked them.

    Z:

    Are you aware that Johnny is a minor?

    and on and on

    (Been there, done that - 8 hours straight of questions like the above)

    There is a saying -

    "No good deed goes unpunished."

    Which is sadly absolutely true.

    http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns (Colorado rental condo)

    http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox (Family Web Page)
     
  10. Mark

    Mark Guest

    "Denver C. Fox" wrote
    > Picture yourself in a full-day deposition:
    >
    > Attorney (A):
    >
    > Mr. Smith (S), What special training and/or certifications do you have in
    the
    > area of bicycle repair?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I know a lot about bikes, and have fixed them for years.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > I repeat, have you had any special training in bike repair, or do you have
    any
    > certifications or do you have any training in how to teach children about
    bike
    > repair?
    >
    > S: Well, I guess not.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > After Johnny left your garage that fateful morning, his loose handlebars
    would
    > not let him turn away from the street sign, and he hit it full head on.
    Mr.
    > Smith, are you aware that Johnny will be permanently disfigured as a
    result of
    > that accident?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Yes, I had heard that.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > How was it that Johnny got out of your garage with loose handlebars?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I guess Johnny did not tighten the bars properly.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > Do you consider that Johnny has the knowledge and training to know how to tighten his handlebars?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I guess not.
    >
    > Did you have some sort of an inspection system to be sure that the bikes
    were
    > completely safe prior ro leaving your garage?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I tried.
    >
    > A: Do you have some sort of checklist where every part is checked for
    safety?
    >
    > S: Well, sort of in my mind.
    >
    > A: Do you have a record of your checklist? Can I see it?
    >
    > S: No, as I said, I just sort of kept it in my head.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > How was it that his bike was not fully inspected by you prior to his
    leaving
    > your garage?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I was busy with another kid, and I guess he just got out the door.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > Did Johnny's parents know that you were fixing his bike?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, he just dropped by.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > Did you have their permission?
    >
    > S:
    >
    > Well, I never asked them.
    >
    > A:
    >
    > Are you aware that Johnny is a minor?
    >
    > and on and on
    >
    > (Been there, done that - 8 hours straight of questions like the above)
    >
    > There is a saying -
    >
    > "No good deed goes unpunished."
    >
    > Which is sadly absolutely true.

    At about age 13 or 14, I wandered past the home of one of my junior high school (archaic name for
    middle school) teachers, who had just finished assembling the 10 speed "racing bike" he had bought
    from a department store (that's a 5 cog freewheel and 2 chainrings, not a 10 speed cassette). Since
    he didn't want to mess up the new white handlebar tape with his grease stained hands, he asked me to
    test ride the bike for him. At close to 20 mph I discovered that my teacher had not tightened the
    stem binder bolt. I drifted across my lane and the oncoming lane with the handlebars turned 90
    degrees to my direction of travel, struck the opposite curb a glancing blow and landed on the grass,
    bashing my knee against the top tube. The bike was fine, my knee was fine, and my teacher apologized
    profusely, but I wonder what Mr. Fox's attorney could have done with that scenario?
    --
    mark
     
  11. Loki

    Loki Guest

    "mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... [...]
    > At about age 13 or 14, I wandered past the home of one of my junior high school (archaic name for
    > middle school) teachers, who had just finished assembling the 10 speed "racing bike" he had bought
    > from a department
    store
    > (that's a 5 cog freewheel and 2 chainrings, not a 10 speed cassette).
    Since
    > he didn't want to mess up the new white handlebar tape with his grease stained hands, he asked me
    > to test ride the bike for him. At close to 20
    mph
    > I discovered that my teacher had not tightened the stem binder bolt. I drifted across my lane and
    > the oncoming lane with the handlebars turned 90 degrees to my direction of travel, struck the
    > opposite curb a glancing
    blow
    > and landed on the grass, bashing my knee against the top tube. The bike
    was
    > fine, my knee was fine, and my teacher apologized profusely, but I wonder what Mr. Fox's attorney
    > could have done with that scenario?

    As an expert know-it-all, as certified by having internet access, I'd speculate that you assumed a
    certain amount of responsibility for defects/improper assembly derived accidents by agreeing to test-
    ride the bike - the operative phrase being _Test_Ride_. You assume a certain amount of risk by
    agreeing to _test_ the bike.

    OTOH you're age would give you're lawyer the argument that you were not able to legally consent to
    the assumption of risk.

    In general; to the original question: It's a sad day that people are so fearful of being sued that
    they shy from such normal activities as helping a neighbourhood child work on his bike. I guess
    that's where all the lawyer jokes come from...

    --
    'And then one day you find, Ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run You missed
    the starting gun' -pink floyd
     
  12. Q.

    Q. Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote

    > >Perhaps the repairs could be offered as 'instruction'. Let the kids handle the tools so that
    > >they're fixing their own bikes.
    >
    > Now *that* is a good idea!

    Bikes not Bombs does that ... kids learn and volunteer, and they get a their own bike afterwards.

    http://www.bikesnotbombs.org/eab.htm

    C.Q.C.
     
  13. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Any thoughts?

    Maybe the best thing is to talk to the parents. Explain your concerns over a neighbourly cup of
    coffee / kitchen table chat. They'd probably appreciate dialogue with any adults their kids are
    hanging around with, anyway.

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  14. Nyrides

    Nyrides Guest

    I've been in that position for a number of years.

    Between 1997 and 2003, I ran a Recycle-A-Cycle program in which neighborhood teens signed up to fix
    bikes for underprivileged children in other areas. For that program, I carried a pretty hefty
    insurance policy to protect against just what you described. However, while running the program, I,
    too, developed the reputation as the neighborhood guy to bring your bike to when something went
    wrong. Whenever I'd say to a parent "This should really be looked at by a professional mechanic,"
    they'd reply with "Well, we just don't have the time to load it in the car and bring it over there.
    He/she will just have to ride it as it is." Of course, that would always fill me with guilt and, the
    next thing you know, I'd be giving up hours of my own riding time to spend several hours truing a
    wheel or trying to adjust the brakes on a $79 mountain bike.

    Fortunately, I haven't had a problem, but I have always worried about what would happen if a part
    broke or something went wrong with the bike after I worked on it. I think some of the suggestions
    you've gotten here are very valuable. You may want to have a discussion with the parents about
    exactly what you've done, or even set a policy that you won't work on a bike unless a parent is
    present. That way, if you tighten a pedal and nothing else, and then the chain breaks, they'll be
    less likely to try to pin the blame on you.

    This stuff is tough. We all like to help people. Especially those of us with a little bit of skill
    in bicycle mechanics. But there's got to be a way to maintain your altruism and not put your life
    and everything you've got on the line.

    "Robert Canon" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
    > etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome
    > steel rims, stamped
    brakes,
    > and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any maintenance. I adjust the
    > brakes the best I can without replacing parts
    and
    > tell the kid his brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
    >
    > I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
    > adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get
    hurt
    > but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to claim the kid's bike
    was
    > in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt. Anybody been in a similar
    > situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up
    their
    > tires then tell the kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a
    > tune up?
     
  15. Tim Cain

    Tim Cain Guest

    "mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Denver C. Fox" wrote
    >

    [snip]

    >
    > At about age 13 or 14, I wandered past the home of one of my junior high school (archaic name for
    > middle school) teachers, who had just finished assembling the 10 speed "racing bike" he had bought
    > from a department
    store
    > (that's a 5 cog freewheel and 2 chainrings, not a 10 speed cassette).
    Since
    > he didn't want to mess up the new white handlebar tape with his grease stained hands, he asked me
    > to test ride the bike for him. At close to 20
    mph
    > I discovered that my teacher had not tightened the stem binder bolt. I drifted across my lane and
    > the oncoming lane with the handlebars turned 90 degrees to my direction of travel, struck the
    > opposite curb a glancing
    blow
    > and landed on the grass, bashing my knee against the top tube. The bike
    was
    > fine, my knee was fine, and my teacher apologized profusely, but I wonder what Mr. Fox's attorney
    > could have done with that scenario?

    I think your teacher would be absolutely f*cked.

    The lawyer may be able to make much milage out of your age - you might not be able to forsee the
    consequences of undertaking such a test ride. This much is certainly true!

    Also, consider the fact that from your perspective the person requesting you to test the bike is in
    a position of authority and trust - you may feel unable to refuse, and you trust them not to
    endanger you.

    Tim.

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 06/02/04
     
  16. Bernie

    Bernie Guest

    Tim Cain wrote:

    >"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Denver C. Fox" wrote
    >>
    >
    >[snip]
    >
    >>At about age 13 or 14, I wandered past the home of one of my junior high school (archaic name for
    >>middle school) teachers, who had just finished assembling the 10 speed "racing bike" he had bought
    >>from a department
    >>
    >store
    >
    >>(that's a 5 cog freewheel and 2 chainrings, not a 10 speed cassette).
    >>
    >Since
    >
    >>he didn't want to mess up the new white handlebar tape with his grease stained hands, he asked me
    >>to test ride the bike for him. At close to 20
    >>
    >mph
    >
    >>I discovered that my teacher had not tightened the stem binder bolt. I drifted across my lane and
    >>the oncoming lane with the handlebars turned 90 degrees to my direction of travel, struck the
    >>opposite curb a glancing
    >>
    >blow
    >
    >>and landed on the grass, bashing my knee against the top tube. The bike
    >>
    >was
    >
    >>fine, my knee was fine, and my teacher apologized profusely, but I wonder what Mr. Fox's attorney
    >>could have done with that scenario?
    >>
    >
    >I think your teacher would be absolutely f*cked.
    >
    >The lawyer may be able to make much milage out of your age - you might not be able to forsee the
    >consequences of undertaking such a test ride. This much is certainly true!
    >
    >Also, consider the fact that from your perspective the person requesting you to test the bike is in
    >a position of authority and trust - you may feel unable to refuse, and you trust them not to
    >endanger you.
    >
    >Tim.
    >
    >
    >---
    >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    >Version: 6.0.580 / Virus Database: 367 - Release Date: 06/02/04
    >
    >
    OTOH you could just call this a learning experience.
     
  17. Proffsl

    Proffsl Guest

    "NYRides" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > Between 1997 and 2003, I ran a Recycle-A-Cycle program in which neighborhood teens signed up to
    > fix bikes for underprivileged children in other areas. For that program, I carried a pretty hefty
    > insurance policy to protect against just what you described.

    Mandatory Liability is a violation of our Right to the presumption of Innocence. If you are
    Liable for something, you are guilty of something. Mandatory Liability makes you mandatorly
    guilty, where premiums are payments for guilt not your own, with no hope of innocence, as
    premiums are never returned.

    Mandatory Liability is an unequal application of law. Mandatory Liability is a State's issue, where
    some States do not require of their citizens Mandatory Liability. YET!!! There is Federal law
    stating that every state must allow the citizens of other states to freely pass through their own.
    Why should you not be allowed to drive on your own State's highways without having to purchase
    Mandatory Liability while drivers from States that don't require Mandatory Liability can drive on
    your own State's highways without Mandatory Liability?

    Mandatory Liability forces you to purchase security for the other guy on the pretense the other guy
    will purchase security for you. If you are among the many who, after being forced to purchase
    Mandatory Liability, are then unable to afford Uninsured Motorist, you are then rendered unable to
    secure yourself.

    Mandatory Liability premiums are an unequal application of burden. Given two drivers living in the
    same area, with the same driving records, and going to the same insurance broker, will pay the same
    Mandatory Liability premiums, dispite the fact one of these drivers might be on the highways twice
    or more often than the other.

    Mandatory Liability premiums can be avoided by the wealthy who can afford to put up a sizeable bond.
    If there are no defaults claimed upon the bond, their bond is returned to them in full. If one is
    not wealthy enough to put up such a bond, dispite the fact they had no accidents, their premiums are
    never returned.

    Mandatory Liability was originally accepted on the claim it would make premium payents go down.
    Since it's initiation, premium payments have skyrocketed 5 to 10 fold.

    Mandatory Liability is a scam, forcing each driver to purchase insurance for the posibility of
    numerous others claiming their liability. Each driver may carry insurance to cover as many as 4 or 5
    others, excluding themself of course. If there were 100 million drivers, with 100 million Mandatory
    Liability insurance policies, they would be carrying enough insurance to cover 400 to 500 million
    others. BUT!!! There are ONLY 100 million drivers, and only 250 million people in this nation!!!
     
  18. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
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  19. On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:34:56 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Not "nly in America" sadly. Our local bike campaign have a "Dr. Bike" session, but the bike
    >mechanics will only list the things they have found, and never fix them. What are the chances of
    >getting reasonably priced public liability insurance? Thought not.

    Most areas in the U.S., documented programs run by a non-profit have little added liability. The non-
    profit has to list the purposes of the program and the bike repairers would have to be volunteers or
    employees of the non-profit. There is relatively little risk for the non-profit as well.

    If not for this, most shelter programs would be done and cooked before they started. OTOH, I
    couldn't blame anyone for taking the more conservative position, and recommend versus actually doing
    the repair.

    Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
     
  20. Tim Cain

    Tim Cain Guest

    "Bernie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    [snip much]
    >
    > OTOH you could just call this a learning experience.
    >

    Absolutely agree.

    Learn to say: "You built it, you test it!"

    Tim.

    ---
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