Liability of neighborhood bike repair?

[Zoot Katz]

9 Feb 2004 05:28:08 -0800,
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] (proffsl) wrote:

>Mandatory Liability is a scam, forcing each driver to purchase insurance for the posibility of
>numerous others claiming their liability.

You never wondered why some of the largest buildings in our cities are owned by insurance companies
that produce absolutely nothing?
--
zk

 

[Jeffbonny]

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 15:53:25 -0500, "S. Anderson"
<[email protected]> said:

>At my shop, we ended up making up some liability waivers for customers to sign. It was kind of a
>grim job, but we felt we needed to do something. We'd explain that something was going to cost $50
>to fix and they'd usually say "No..too expensive.." and we'd ask them to put that in writing, which
>they generally did. I don't know how well that would stand up in court, but for marginal stuff at
>least it gave us a fighting chance. We were never sued in the 10 years I was there for anything
>related to negligence, but this is in Canada, not the U.S. I think there are a few legal-types that
>hang around here with some better opinions than I can give for sure. It would be unfortunate if
>you're trying to do a neighbourly thing and they sue your ass when the kid crashes and busts his
>nose, wouldn't it?!?! But, that's a possibility, especially in the U.S. I suspect.

My experience in the ski biz says that a liability waiver is not worth the paper it is printed on;
if you send someone out on poorly teched equipment you will be held liable by the courts
regardless of any papers signed. There is much precedence for this. Bikes are no different from
skis in this regard.

The best way of covering yer butt is to do good work with components installed to manufacturer spec.
If this is done the liability is likely to be assumed by the manufacturer. This still won't protect
you from the outlay of legal fees to prove it wasn't yer fault in the event you are sued. Keep in
mind that if you are not named in a liability suit and are later found to have been liable to any
degree the plaintiff's lawyer can be sued himself for malpractice so as a rule they go after
everyone. Scary stuff.

jeffb

 

[Proffsl]

Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (proffsl) wrote:
> >
> > Mandatory Liability is a scam, forcing each driver to purchase insurance for the posibility of
> > numerous others claiming their liability.
>
> You never wondered why some of the largest buildings in our cities are owned by insurance
> companies that produce absolutely nothing?

Or why so much of our Advertising time is taken up by Insurances?

Mandatory Liability is a form of forced gambling, where the winners loose and the loosers win, where
those who don't have accidents pay for something they never get, and where those who do have
accidents get far more than they paid for.

Mandatory Liability is at the root of most our financial woes of today. Within our medical industry,
everything and everybody must be insured, including the building itself, all the equipment, every
hypodermic needle, every medication, every surgical glove, every cotton swab, including the doctor's
themself, are all insured up their gazoos! This has driven up medical costs to the point where you
must have insurance to afford medical care!

And, to rub salt into this womb, the moment you pay your insurance premiums, they turn around and
pay a lawyer to make sure you never get your money back!

 

[Denver C. Fox]

>Having been in court many times myself I can pose a few questions.

Most of these cases (above 90%) never get to court but are settles prior to the scheduled
trial date.

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns (Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox (Family Web Page)

 

[jhuskey]

Originally posted by Denver C. Fox
>Having been in court many times myself I can pose a few questions.

Most of these cases (above 90%) never get to court but are settles prior to the scheduled
trial date.

http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns (Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox (Family Web Page)

Yes I know.They are called nuisance claims by most people I know. They cost more to defend than the worth of the entire claim. 69 cases in our local State Court received Plantiff awards by juries this past year and the average was around $10,000.00 not the hugh amounts you hear about on the news. Media has a way of sensationalizing civil suits. They never report the amounts if they are not large.
Persons outside the industry have a very skewed opinion of civil liability because of that. Some think of a personal injury as a lottery ticket for the big payoff.
Ultimately we pay the bill. Insurance company money does not fall out of the sky.The ability to take personal responsibility for your own actions is becoming more scarce.
And to respond to another comment from another thread:
Exculpatory contracts(hold harmless agreement) are very useful tools. I have had very good results getting claims summarily dismissed before trial. Will they relieve you of gross negilgence, absolutely not. However the burden of proof lies upon the plantiffs shoulders. Want to protect yourself completely.Go live in a cave and hope some enviromentalist doesn't file a complaint that you have an improper waste system. Oh well! I could go on for days about the problems with the system but I have already bored most people Sh****less.

 

[Per Elmsäter]

Robert Canon wrote:
> I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
> etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome
> steel rims, stamped brakes, and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any
> maintenance. I adjust the brakes the best I can without replacing parts and tell the kid his
> brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
>
> I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
> adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get hurt but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to
> claim the kid's bike was in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt.
> Anybody been in a similar situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up their tires then tell the
> kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a tune up?

Why don't you ask a lawyer?
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[David Reuteler]

"Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote:
: Why don't you ask a lawyer?

yea, but to do that he'd have to talk with one. it's possible here an intermediary could be found or
someone who has already done it saving him the not inconsiderable pain involved.
--
david reuteler [email protected]

 

[Per Elmsäter]

David Reuteler wrote:
> "Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Why don't you ask a lawyer?
>
> yea, but to do that he'd have to talk with one. it's possible here an intermediary could be found
> or someone who has already done it saving him the not inconsiderable pain involved.

In cases like this free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Chris B .]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:06:45 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>David Reuteler wrote:
>> "Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Why don't you ask a lawyer?
>>
>> yea, but to do that he'd have to talk with one. it's possible here an intermediary could be found
>> or someone who has already done it saving him the not inconsiderable pain involved.
>
>
>In cases like this free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

So he shouldn't get a lawyer?

 

[Per Elmsäter]

Chris B. wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:06:45 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> David Reuteler wrote:
>>> "Per Elmsater" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Why don't you ask a lawyer?
>>>
>>> yea, but to do that he'd have to talk with one. it's possible here an intermediary could be
>>> found or someone who has already done it saving him the not inconsiderable pain involved.
>>
>>
>> In cases like this free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
>
> So he shouldn't get a lawyer?

??
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Ron Wallenfang]

I'm a lawyer and I'll give you a typical lawyer's answer: Maybe. You're not very likely to be held
liable based on the facts you've stated, but the injured kid might have a different recollection.

A skillful plaintiff's lawyer - someone like John Edwards, say - will look at all the possiblities
and select defendant(s) who have deep pockets (which could come from homeowner's insurance) and
against whom a plausible case can be made, which often can be done in amazing circumstances. Many
companies have been ruined by negligent tort claims; very few individuals have, for various good and
sufficient reasons.

FWIW, I don't let these remote possibilities deter me. If you've done a good deed, and are
comfortable with it, that's better than to take the legally "safer" course and do nothing. Back in
law school, I read a parody of what the "reasonably prudent man" would do in all areas of life to
avoid liability, and this composite character was a real horses' ass.

"Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robert Canon wrote:
> > I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
> > etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy
> > chrome steel rims, stamped brakes, and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack
> > of any maintenance. I adjust the brakes the best I can without replacing parts and tell the kid
> > his brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
> >
> > I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before
> > I adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get hurt but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going
> > to claim the kid's bike was in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid
> > hurt. Anybody been in a similar situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up their tires then tell
> > the kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a tune up?
>
> Why don't you ask a lawyer?
> --
> Perre
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[Eric S. Sande]

>I'm a lawyer and I'll give you a typical lawyer's answer: Maybe.

You're also a top posting bicycle lawyer, for the record.

.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email protected]__________

 

[jhuskey]

[Many
companies have been ruined by negligent tort claims; very few individuals have, for various good and
sufficient reasons.

I don't deal with claims against individuals but believe that juries are much more liklely to be more sympathetic to an individual than a business which are viewed as an inert unfeeling entities without remorse or emotion.
Of course you know the court generally instructs the jury to view companies as individuals. I don't belive they are identified with that way and have 2 strikes against them from the onset.

 

[Tomp]

You should be ok, if you have a large umbrella policy > $5 Million, that covers that sort of
liability. Wouldn't hurt to have a certificate for bicycle repair either.

Robert Canon wrote:

> I'm gaining the reputation in the neighborhood as the crazy bike guy who will air up flat tires
> etc. Since all these kid bikes are of the big box store variety they have the usual crappy chrome
> steel rims, stamped brakes, and marginal braking even without the incopentent set-up/lack of any
> maintenance. I adjust the brakes the best I can without replacing parts and tell the kid his
> brakes need attention at a bike shop but I know that will never happen.
>
> I feel bad sending a kid out on a bike with brakes that marginal, but they're better than before I
> adjusted them. I'm worried a kid will get hurt but I'm also worried some crazy parent is going to
> claim the kid's bike was in perfect working order until I messed it up and got their kid hurt.
> Anybody been in a similar situation? Any thoughts? Stop at airing up their tires then tell the
> kids to tell their clueless parents to take their bike to a bike shop for a tune up?

--

Tp

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