Lieswyn's Off Season

[Bob Schwartz]

Monkeyhillcs <[email protected]> wrote:

> From: Bob Schwartz [email protected]

> <<That's 3 cops/field, right?>>

> No. 2 cops per field, and a ton of motorcycle officials. Delaware doesn't have motorocycle state
> troopers.

>>>But that is a level of expense that is an option for only a tiny
> percentage of races even if the required number of motorcycle cops is available, which in most
> cases is not. There is no police jurisdiction that I can think of as even being a remote
> possibility for a race that I might put on that even has moto cops and that includes state
> troopers. And since a rolling enclosure isn't really an option with cops in squad cars>>>

> Wrong, see above. I think that most East Coast races with rolling enclosures don't have motor
> police. I can think of only FU-philly and Tour deWarsaw that have motorcycle police.

OK, maybe I'm unclear on exactly what you guys mean by 'rolling enclosure'.

My understanding is that a rolling enclosure has guys on motorcycles constantly leapfrogging the
field. A guy on a motor controls an intersection ahead of the race and holds it until the race
passes through. They then pass the follow caravan and field to control the next intersection. You
need a bunch of guys doing this and since they may be controlling intersections where the race does
not have the right of way they need to be cops.

So do you guys only use courses that don't ever run stop signs? Or do the cops not mind people
that are not cops acting like cops if there are real cops up in front of the race? If you can
swing that then you must have a real silver tongue, I'll bet you get laid more in a week than
Ku... oh never mind.

It also sounds like you're running a single field. One of my points was that the expense and effort
gets much higher if you are doing this with 5 or 6 concurrent fields like most of the local USAC
road races around here do. There are a lots of things that are possible for single field races that
drop into the NFW category once you start talking women and cat 3s, 4/5s, multiple levels of
masters...

> There are a lot of officials with motorcycles. Or you could do like Bill Laudien and shut the
> road down in one direction. Then you don't really need that many mobile police.

If you guys have a ton of motor officials available then you are really lucky. Authority figures,
cops or officials, are easily the most valuable thing to have when running a safe race. We had two
local guys a number of years ago, neither is currently available. So a lot of races here will do
something similar with lots of officials in cars, enough to put an official behind each field. But
its a ton harder to control a race from a car than a motorcycle. You can't easily and safely get in
people's faces in a car the way you can on a motor. I wish we had more motor refs.

Is Laudien taking a road that people actually want to drive on during the race? He must have powers
of persuasion that explains why he doesn't have time to post here much anymore.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

 

[Donald Munro]

Jason Waddell wrote in message
>> I'll second that. Why would anyone want to race for 100 miles in the US when everyone knows the
>> real money is in crits...

VeloRodsMom wrote:
>Cause crits are for fags. At least that's what my son Rodney tells me all the time.

Better tell your son not to call these big crit sprinters fags to their faces unless you'd like him
back with newly re-arranged facial features.

Donald 'everyone kicks sand in my face cos I'm a climber' Munro

 

[Tom Kunich]

"John Lieswyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<kQbM9.422078$NH2.30971@sccrnsc01>...
> I didn't claim that there isn't much racing in Asheville. I SAID that the fatality meant the end
> of a great event (the Bele Chere cycling road race)
>
> Come on people. If you are going to quote or criticize me, at least read my stuff thoroughly
> first. Don't misquote it.

Come on John, you know the rules here. Jesus Christ would be criticized for saying something
(reminds one of "Did he say, 'Blessed are the cheese-makers?'")

Yellow line rules are stupid and shouldn't be allowed for large races. And yet they have become
common. As you point out, if there's no other way around an obstruction a rider will cross the
yellow line either on purpose or accidently or because there is no alternative.

And we should also mention that the yellow line rule is so often "in effect" and yet ignored that
many racers simply pay it no attention at all and then cry when they are disqualified by it. When I
drove team cars I would often watch the whole pack ride on the yellow line and yet the right gutter
was open. Many riders race as if there were nothing but lemmings.

I understand that if you cannot shut a road down for a few hours that a yellow line rule is better
than no racing. But there is a difference between a 40 rider local race and a 200+ rider national
caliber race.

 

[Tom Arsenault]

[email protected] (Tom Kunich) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "John Lieswyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<kQbM9.422078$NH2.30971@sccrnsc01>...
> > I didn't claim that there isn't much racing in Asheville. I SAID that the fatality meant the end
> > of a great event (the Bele Chere cycling road race)
> >
> > Come on people. If you are going to quote or criticize me, at least read my stuff thoroughly
> > first. Don't misquote it.
>
> Come on John, you know the rules here. Jesus Christ would be criticized for saying something
> (reminds one of "Did he say, 'Blessed are the cheese-makers?'")
>
> Yellow line rules are stupid and shouldn't be allowed for large races. And yet they have become
> common. As you point out, if there's no other way around an obstruction a rider will cross the
> yellow line either on purpose or accidently or because there is no alternative.
>
> And we should also mention that the yellow line rule is so often "in effect" and yet ignored that
> many racers simply pay it no attention at all and then cry when they are disqualified by it. When
> I drove team cars I would often watch the whole pack ride on the yellow line and yet the right
> gutter was open. Many riders race as if there were nothing but lemmings.
>
> I understand that if you cannot shut a road down for a few hours that a yellow line rule is better
> than no racing. But there is a difference between a 40 rider local race and a 200+ rider national
> caliber race.

And just to add more fuel to the fire, I was at VOS this year, and also competed in over 70+ races
during the 2002 season, and I am in total agreement with John that this was the only race where I
did not feel safe. The field limits were ignored, the officials were not very in tune with the rules
they were hired to enforce, and it was basically a mess from start to finish. When a lot of us
"voiced" our concerns and problems with the race via cyclingnews.com, the promoter took it hard, and
basically said that they wouldn't be running the race again next year because of the criticisms
received. Basically, they were taking their ball and going home and weren't coming out to play
anymore. It does appear that the race is on again this year though, and I have been adamant in
telling anyone that will listen in the Southeast US to NOT go out there to race. In other races I've
done in the past few years, the yellow line rule has always been in effect. I don't know of many US
road races where this is not true, but the difference with the other races is that you have 2 motos
riding along with you, and usually some sort of police officer as well. They all work in conjunction
working a sort of "rolling" closure of the road. Meaning they cut off crossroads, and have oncoming
traffic pull off to the side of the road to let the large group go by. By all accounts most of the
road races are in what we would call "the countryside" and the motorists, if encumbered at all, are
only delayed for a minute or less. This works, and is safe, and makes me feel safe as a racer. VOS
made me feel like I was going to get run over at any second.

I was also surprised by the "prize list" that was presented to the Pro/1 field as being whoafully
inadequate considering the firepower of domestic racing that was represented. 7-Up was there, Prime
Alliance was there, Saturn was there, Mercury was there, Rona was there, and many other very strong
regional and pro teams. But this, is another story...

 

[Rob Benetton]

John and Tom....Just for the record,how many AMATEUR races have you guys promoted?I am talking about
the ones the AVERAGE person goes to,with 8 or 10 classes running on the same course at the same
time.This is what happens at most events.First the Cat1-2's go of,2 minutes later the Cat.3's ride
away,then the Cat.4's,tec,etc down through Juniors,Citizens,usually about 8-10 separate races on the
course at the same time.With about 3 minutes between groups.Every category wants ,and gets,it's own
race.So this is how it is at ALL the roadraces I went to,about 17 this year.How would you do a
rolling closure with 10 groups?.I can't get one Sherriff's car to appear,no matter what I offer
them.They "Are not in the business of babysitting bike riders".So the yellow line rule sucks.The
alternative is a mass start event,with 200 riders of all abilities,riding behind a civilian car with
a yellow light on the roof.Ala WISPORT.What about those who get dropped?The whole issue of amateur
RRing DEPENDS upon riders behaving like adults,and riding RIGHT OF CENTER.(ROC)...As promoters,we
try to pick a course with good sight lines,and all right turns,in areas with very little
traffic....but the rest is up to the riders.The safest thing we can offer is a race on the right
side,and yes,occasionally,people get pushed over,but generally the groups have been well behaved of
late.And if the course is hard enough(HILLS) then teams are unable to block,and the best rider
wins.We have hills,lotsa hills,and it always separates the best from the rest.But I would like to
hear more ideas about how to accomodate many classes on the same course simultaneously....without
just saying a rolling closure is the only way to go,cuz we don't have that option.And there is alot
of inherent danger in having too many follow/lead vehicles on the course,as well.Ask Millar,Mike
Barry,etal...Alot of people are getting hurt/killed training too...maybe that should be considered
"dangerous and negligent"as well...Please keep your comments constructive,and offer some
alternatives.Thanks.Bob

 

[Amit]

[email protected] (Tom Kunich) wrote in message
>
> Yellow line rules are stupid and shouldn't be allowed for large races. And yet they have become
> common. As you point out, if there's no other way around an obstruction a rider will cross the
> yellow line either on purpose or accidently or because there is no alternative.
>
> I understand that if you cannot shut a road down for a few hours that a yellow line rule is better
> than no racing. But there is a difference between a 40 rider local race and a 200+ rider national
> caliber race.

I don't like the idea of traffic flowing in the opposite direction as the field, but I think Tom has
a point here. Yellow lines are okay for small fields (maybe 40-50 riders), but it's too dangerous in
large fields. I can understand how difficult it can be for officials to police a large field like
the VOS had.

-Amit

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Bikerecker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Three, I have no idea how someone could leave Asheville, NC, to live anywhere near Iowa. The
> horror, the horror...

Maybe he wants to live someplace where a beer can collection doesn't pass for a tourist attraction.
Or where people don't leave twinkies and beer for Santa on Christmas.

Maybe he wants to ride someplace where people pick up the parts that fall off of their
pickup trucks.

Maybe he's tired of 'Elvis gets in free' promotions at stock car races.

Maybe he doesn't want to live in a place where pictures of dogs playing poker is
considered high art.

Maybe he's tired of going to weddings where everyone sits on the same side of the church.

Sundquist must be out if he hasn't responded to this one yet. I'll bet he could beat this stuff with
just his opinions on the dating scene in the south.

Bob Schwartz [email protected]

Greg, there is a career for you as a straight man...

 

[Tim Mullin]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Maybe he wants to live someplace where a beer can collection doesn't pass for a tourist
> attraction. Or where people don't leave twinkies and beer for Santa on Christmas.
>
> Maybe he wants to ride someplace where people pick up the parts that fall off of their
> pickup trucks.
>
> Maybe he's tired of 'Elvis gets in free' promotions at stock car races.
>
> Maybe he doesn't want to live in a place where pictures of dogs playing poker is considered
> high art.
>
> Maybe he's tired of going to weddings where everyone sits on the same side of the church.

Jeff Foxworthy called....he wants his schtick back.

 

[Brian Lafferty]

"Bikerecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK: Asheville rules, east of the Rockies. It is like if they took all the pretentiousness out of
> Boulder and plopped it down in the Blue Ridge.
There is
> a reason Lance went down there to Boone to train when he was about to hang
up
> his cleats.

Did Armstrong buy property and move there?

Brian Lafferty

 

[Ronde Chumpion]

"Brian Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Bikerecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > OK: Asheville rules, east of the Rockies. It is like if they took all the pretentiousness out of
> > Boulder and plopped it down in the Blue Ridge.
> There is
> > a reason Lance went down there to Boone to train when he was about to hang
> up
> > his cleats.
>
> Did Armstrong buy property and move there?
>
> Brian Lafferty

Brian,

Yes, armstrong does own property in Boone. I just checked our local phone book, and seen it with
my own eyes.

Thanks, Ronde Chumpion

 

[Tim Mullin]

"ronde chumpion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Yes, armstrong does own property in Boone. I just checked our local phone book, and seen it with
> my own eyes.

I thought all you hillbillies were on one party line and didn't need a phone book.

 

[Brian Lafferty]

"ronde chumpion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Brian Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Bikerecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > OK: Asheville rules, east of the Rockies. It is like if they took all the pretentiousness out
> > > of Boulder and plopped it down in the Blue Ridge.
> > There is
> > > a reason Lance went down there to Boone to train when he was about to
hang
> > up
> > > his cleats.
> >
> > Did Armstrong buy property and move there?
> >
> > Brian Lafferty
>
>
>
> Brian,
>
> Yes, armstrong does own property in Boone. I just checked our local phone book, and seen it with
> my own eyes.
>
> Thanks, Ronde Chumpion

Really. He is listed as owning property in SC but in another area.

 

[Brian Lafferty]

"Bikerecker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brian Lafferty wrote:
> >Did Armstrong buy property and move there?
>
> I don't know if he owns any property up there. In his "Not about the
Bike"
> book, on the acknowledgements page, he wrote: "This book is for:..." "The cities of Austin, Boone,
> Santa Barbara, and
Nice."
> That, my friends, is as powerful an endoresment as you or anyone else
might
> need. Now, Boone is a like a smaller version of Asheville, for you ignorant
folks who
> have somehow avoided travelling in the area. One of the reasons Lance digs the place is that the
> Tour DuPont went
through
> there in '96. I think that's when Lance figured out he could ride in the mountains, day-in,
> day-out. Those stages were epic, like the surrounding terrain.
>
> Greg

I have looked into the future and I see Lanceland right next to Dollyland, the perfect stop on
the way to Disney World. Cue to Sachmo singing, "Its a Wonderful World."

Brian Lafferty