Light battery storage



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Steve

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OK Folks

Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?
Drain them right down or fully charge them?

Steve
 
Steve wrote:
> OK Folks
>
> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?

Drawing to a close? Do you knock off early then?

Out of interest do you work at the Komatsu between Durham and Newcastle?

Colin
 
Steve wrote:

> Drain them right down or fully charge them?

Reports vary: I've stored my NiCad caving lamp both ways and it doesn't seem to have made any
difference to it, though most people seem to keep them fully charged and come the next use, run them
down and charge them freshly. It's widely held that a full drain of a lead/acid is a Very Bad Thing,
but OTOH the one in my car has survived that happening a few times and it still works fine...

So charge and cycle fully at the end of storage if you want to stay with the safety of "received
wisdom", and that way shouldn't bite you.

Must say you can add battery maintenance to the list of things I really don't miss any more (since I
got a dynohub). If that makes me an evil evangelist saying people with battery lights are worse off
then I guess I'm an evil evangelist, at least as far as utility bikes go...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Steve wrote:
> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?

Store what? My lights are dynamo powered and permanently fitted :)

(and even if they weren't they'd stay on the bike in case of a late one).

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
 
Steve wrote:
> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?
> Drain them right down or fully charge them?

Maplin Electronics supply (or at least supplied to me a couple of years ago) new NiCad cells totally
flat. But I've read conflicting advice on how they should be stored. Some even say drain and freeze!

I understand it's best never to completely drain NiMH cells.

~PB
 
> Maplin Electronics supply (or at least supplied to me a couple of years ago) new NiCad cells
> totally flat.

Note. That's deliberate policy, as documentation explained; wasn't a mistake, etc.

~PB
 
Steve wrote:
> OK Folks
>
> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?
> Drain them right down or fully charge them?
>

Dunno about NiMH but I don't think it matters with NiCad. The important thing is to fully charge
them before using them after they've been stored - because if different cells have lost different
amount of charge in storage you can end up putting reverse polarity across a cell if you use them
again before recharging.

Lead-acid are best kept charged.

--
Andrew Pattle
 
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote
> Steve wrote:
>
> > Drain them right down or fully charge them?
>
> Reports vary: I've stored my NiCad caving lamp both ways and it doesn't seem to have made any
> difference to it, though most people seem to keep them fully charged and come the next use, run
> them down and charge them freshly.

With lead-acid you should *definitely* make sure they are fully charged before putting them away.
With NiCad and Ni MH it doesn't matter much.

> It's widely held that a full drain of a lead/acid is a Very Bad Thing, but OTOH the one in my car
> has survived that happening a few times and it still works fine...

With *all* types of battery (by battery I mean several cells in series or parallel) you should never
run them down to completely empty. When your lights go dim and yellow, turn them off. With a single
cell (like AA or D cell) it's OK to completely empty it, but there are very few devices that run off
just a single cell!

Your battery may tolerate such a full discharge, but it's asking for trouble and is highly likely to
reduce the lifetime of your cells.

> So charge and cycle fully at the end of storage if you want to stay with the safety of "received
> wisdom", and that way shouldn't bite you.

NiCads occasionally benefit from a cycling, but cycling means only discharging until lights are dim
and yellow and then recharging, it does not mean discharging until lights have completely gone out.

Cycling is never of any benefit to lead-acid batteries, and I don't think it's any use for
NiMH either.

> Must say you can add battery maintenance to the list of things I really don't miss any more (since
> I got a dynohub). If that makes me an evil evangelist saying people with battery lights are worse
> off then I guess I'm an evil evangelist, at least as far as utility bikes go...

I have two wheels with hub dynamos (one 700c, one MTB) but now I'm rinding the Brompton so I'm back
to using battery powered lights. Still batteries aren't much of an issue as I have LED lights front
& rear -- a BS rear made by Knightlite and a Cateye 3-white-LED front one (the kind with 4 AAs, not
one of the little ones). The front light is nowhere near as good at showing me where I'm going as my
dynamo light, which is a drawback for riding on bike paths, but is very good for being seen.

-Myra
 
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:37:54 -0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Steve wrote:
>> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?
>
>Store what? My lights are dynamo powered and permanently fitted :)
>
>(and even if they weren't they'd stay on the bike in case of a late one).

This is something I am wondering about in relation to my shimano hub dynamo. Do they wear out? More
specifically, am I shortening it's life if I leave it on the bike all summer, obviously using it for
log periods without making use of it's charging capability? I'm not that fussed about weight or any
drag I may incur, but forgetting all physics and the like, I am in the dark about it! Obviously
bearings will wear and/or need adjusting, but anything else?

Just curious. ta bob
 
Bob Flemming wrote:

> This is something I am wondering about in relation to my shimano hub dynamo. Do they wear out?
> More specifically, am I shortening it's life if I leave it on the bike all summer, obviously using
> it for log periods without making use of it's charging capability? I'm not that fussed about
> weight or any drag I may incur, but forgetting all physics and the like, I am in the dark about
> it! Obviously bearings will wear and/or need adjusting, but anything else?

I'm sure Myra has chapter & verse - the bearings in the Nexus are better protected than standard
hubs and long-lived. I've heard they can be challenging to replace, but mine are still fine after
5,000 miles or so - and now I'm riding the 'bent with a SON. Obviously removing the SON would render
the bike aesthetically sub-optimal :)

I'm not aware of any risk of deterioration of the permanent magnets thorugh not powering the lights.
Hub dynamos tend to be long-lived, but I've not known anybody wear a Nexus out yet so I don't know
how long they do last.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104
 
Myra VanInwegen wrote:

>
> With lead-acid you should *definitely* make sure they are fully charged before putting them away.
> With NiCad and Ni MH it doesn't matter much.

I managed, due to moving house, to lose my Cateye SLA for most of last year. Although I charged it
up as soon as I found it, it died quite quickly once powering the lights. I assume I have fscked the
thing through leaving it discharged for so long. Is there anyway to remedy this or should I just get
a replacement battery (20 quid from Wiggle)

Colin
 
Pete Biggs wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>> Whats the best way to store your rechargeable lights now that dark days are drawing to a close?
>> Drain them right down or fully charge them?
>
> Maplin Electronics supply (or at least supplied to me a couple of years ago) new NiCad cells
> totally flat. But I've read conflicting advice on how they should be stored. Some even say drain
> and freeze!
>
> I understand it's best never to completely drain NiMH cells.
>

Best never to completely drain NiMH *batteries*, I think. Single cells should be fine, AIUI. Mind
you, my only experience is lurking on bikecurrent for a year or two.
 
Colin Blackburn <[email protected]> wrote
> I managed, due to moving house, to lose my Cateye SLA for most of last year. Although I charged it
> up as soon as I found it, it died quite quickly once powering the lights. I assume I have fscked
> the thing through leaving it discharged for so long. Is there anyway to remedy this or should I
> just get a replacement battery (20 quid from Wiggle)

I'd get one from Maplin or similar; it would be alot cheaper.

-Myra
 
On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:31:25 +0000, Colin Blackburn <[email protected]> wrote:

>Myra VanInwegen wrote:
>
>>
>> With lead-acid you should *definitely* make sure they are fully charged before putting them away.
>> With NiCad and Ni MH it doesn't matter much.
>
>I managed, due to moving house, to lose my Cateye SLA for most of last year. Although I charged it
>up as soon as I found it, it died quite quickly once powering the lights. I assume I have fscked
>the thing through leaving it discharged for so long. Is there anyway to remedy this or should I
>just get a replacement battery (20 quid from Wiggle)
>

Try an electrical wholesalers - this size battery get used in fire alarms, emergency lights and so
on. Try Yuasa or Sonnenschein (sp?) as manufacturers. Maplin probably have them too.

Tim
--

fast and gripping, non pompous, glossy and credible.
 
Colin Blackburn wrote:

> I managed, due to moving house, to lose my Cateye SLA for most of last year. Although I charged it
> up as soon as I found it, it died quite quickly once powering the lights. I assume I have fscked
> the thing through leaving it discharged for so long. Is there anyway to remedy this or should I
> just get a replacement battery (20 quid from Wiggle)

Take the opportunity to build yourself a NiCad or NiMH pack - abt twice the capacity for the same
weight, or the same capacity for half the weight :)

--

-Alex
 
On 14 Feb 2003 01:54:28 -0800 someone who may be [email protected] (Myra VanInwegen) wrote this:-

>With a single cell (like AA or D cell) it's OK to completely empty it, but there are very few
>devices that run off just a single cell!

My torches and lights run on single cells, though they are assembled into a battery inside the
device. To simplify my life I have almost standardised on AA and D cells now. Just one radio and the
smoke detectors to replace now... These cells can then be charged in a standard smart charger.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
> Drawing to a close? Do you knock off early then?

Just 4:45, but we are very close to the arctic circle up here!

> Out of interest do you work at the Komatsu between Durham and Newcastle?

Yeah I do. Do you pass me on the way to work or something? I'm the one going really fast! Ha Ha!

Steve
 
David Hansen <[email protected]> wrote
> On 14 Feb 2003 01:54:28 -0800 someone who may be [email protected] (Myra VanInwegen) wrote this:-
>
> >With a single cell (like AA or D cell) it's OK to completely empty it, but there are very few
> >devices that run off just a single cell!
>
> My torches and lights run on single cells, though they are assembled into a battery inside
> the device.

And thus if you run your torch (or whatever) until it's completely black, you will risk cell
reversal just as much as if the cells were soldered together. You should turn your device off while
there's still a bit of power left and then recharge, else risk damaging one of your cells.

> To simplify my life I have almost standardised on AA and D cells now. Just one radio and the smoke
> detectors to replace now... These cells can then be charged in a standard smart charger.

Which one? We haven't found a single-cell smart charger that actually works. We have one that calls
itself a microprocessor controller smart charger, but if you put cells that have undergone exactly
the same treatment (been used in a flash, say), it turns off the charging of one cell after 15 mins,
but does the other one for an hour! Something clearly wrong here.

-Myra
 
On 17 Feb 2003 02:06:54 -0800 someone who may be [email protected] (Myra VanInwegen) wrote this:-

>> These cells can then be charged in a standard smart charger.
>
>Which one?

I think I bought it in Maplin. It looks rather like the one Innovations sell. It has charged various
sorts of cells for at least a year, AAA to D.

I told a lie, I have two NiMH batteries in my mouse that are AAA size. I must get a bigger mouse to
get rid of that non-standard size:)

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
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