Light & Motion 3-watt LED headlight



D

David L. Johnson

Guest
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:17:58 -0700, frkrygow wrote:

>
> I know LEDs are improving very rapidly. But people have been claiming
> for years that white LEDs are more efficient (more lumens per watt)
> than halogen bulbs. It's my understanding that it only _recently_
> became true for some white LEDs, but not most of them.
>
> AFAIK, nobody is claiming that LEDs are more efficient than HID lamps.
>
> Admittedly I'm just going by memory, and I've found data rather hard to
> come by. But see
> http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The LED FAQ Pages.html#Q7
> as one reference on this point.


Well, I think their data is either old, or wrong, or someone else is. But
one thing is really confusing. As a bulb consumes power, that energy has
but two places to go, either light or heat. That article did claim that
LEDs run much cooler, but consume more energy than an incandescent ---
that seems to be contradictory on its face unless a lot of ultraviolet
light is thrown off as well. L&M claim their 3-watt LED produces 85 lumens
(it is also overdriven at 3.8-watts of power according to someone earlier
on this thread), for 22.3 lumens/watt, but that is much more than the less
than 8 lumens/watt claimed in the link above (they state that
incandescents produce 8 lumens/watt and are more efficient than LEDs).


--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |
 
M

Mike Rice

Guest
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:40:16 GMT, Joe Faust
>
>http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=47&catId=7&subCatId=2
>Cateye has a less expensive alternate to the Light & Motion Vega LED
>Headlight. The cateye HL-EL510 costs about $60 or £40, and ouptuts 800
>candlepower or approximately 62 lumens, vs Vega's $175 and 95 lumen on
>high.
>
>On High the Vega runs 2 hours on internal Nicad, vs the Cateye 30
>hours on 4 AA.


I think this is a variant of the EL500 I recommended earlier in this
thread. While not *as* bright as some of the HID systems out there the
EL500 (or 510) is a major improvement over any LED lamp I've seen.

My last light was an EL300, good to be seen but not enough power to
noticably light the road if traffic or street lamps were in the area.

The twin EL500's light the road reasonbly well, get an amazing run
time (30 'headlight quality' plus 60 'be seen' hours, according to
manufacturer) on 4 AA"s, plus I was able to find them for around $30
including shipping on ebay.

The off/on switch is nice also...a spring loaded toggle (magnetic?).
Very low resistance, toggle is on top of the unit and just a light
flip to the right turns it on and off. There is also some side
lighting in this version, so my crank, feet, and front chain ring are
illumiinated.

Indiana Mike
 
R

Roger Zoul

Guest
Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:

:> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?

I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I wasn't
expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4 hours it will
have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it again. I'm on the
"high" setting. Of course, if the light is somehow defective, then maybe
"high" isn't what it's supposed to be. That's my concern.

:>
:> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
:> and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower,
:> but
:> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
:> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being
:> much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over
:> battery life
:> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another
:> when
:> I can find it for $30-35USD.

Nashbar has it for $45 right now.
 
J

Joe Faust

Guest
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.


I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
the road, however the battery is quite heavy, and I loose a cage. I
just purchased a Luxeon Star 3 Watt LED Flashlight with bicycle mount
on ebay, $19.99 plus shipping.

Burn Time : 10 hours
Bulb Type : 1x Super Bright 3Watt Luxeon star LED
Bulb Life : 100,000 Hours
Battery Type : 3x 1.5V AAA Battery
Weight : 95g (without Batteries) 115g (with Batteries)
Product Size : 115mm (Length) x 33mm (Diameter)
Body : 29mm (Diameter)

I like the fact that I can use rechargeable AAA nicads, or lithium
batteries.

It is small and light enough to keep on the handlebar for very early
morning, or not too late afternoon rides. At these times of day, more
for being seen, than seeing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7171204615
 
J

Joe Faust

Guest
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.


I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
the road, however the battery is quite heavy, and I loose a cage. I
just purchased a Luxeon Star 3 Watt LED Flashlight with bicycle mount
on ebay, $19.99 plus shipping.

Burn Time : 10 hours
Bulb Type : 1x Super Bright 3Watt Luxeon star LED
Bulb Life : 100,000 Hours
Battery Type : 3x 1.5V AAA Battery
Weight : 95g (without Batteries) 115g (with Batteries)
Product Size : 115mm (Length) x 33mm (Diameter)
Body : 29mm (Diameter)

I like the fact that I can use rechargeable AAA nicads, or lithium
batteries.

It is small and light enough to keep on the handlebar for very early
morning, or not too late afternoon rides. At these times of day, more
for being seen, than seeing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7171204615
 
J

Joe Faust

Guest
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
>light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
>My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
>something as usable.


I have a Niterider digital with battery which is great for lighting
the road, however the battery is quite heavy, and I loose a cage. I
just purchased a Luxeon Star 3 Watt LED Flashlight with bicycle mount
on ebay, $19.99 plus shipping.

Burn Time : 10 hours
Bulb Type : 1x Super Bright 3Watt Luxeon star LED
Bulb Life : 100,000 Hours
Battery Type : 3x 1.5V AAA Battery
Weight : 95g (without Batteries) 115g (with Batteries)
Product Size : 115mm (Length) x 33mm (Diameter)
Body : 29mm (Diameter)

I like the fact that I can use rechargeable AAA nicads, or lithium
batteries.

It is small and light enough to keep on the handlebar for very early
morning, or not too late afternoon rides. At these times of day, more
for being seen, than seeing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7171204615
 
P

Peter Cole

Guest
Roger Zoul wrote:
> Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> :> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high" setting?
>
> I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I wasn't
> expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4 hours it will
> have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it again. I'm on the
> "high" setting. Of course, if the light is somehow defective, then maybe
> "high" isn't what it's supposed to be. That's my concern.
>


I think what may be going on is that, as the battery voltage drops, so
does the light output, effectively switching (gradually) from high-power
to low-power mode. I had what I'd estimate to be several hours on the
original batteries on mine, just switched to fresh ones, and found the
light to be a bit brighter. On a battery checker, the original batteries
showed that they were significantly drained.

Bottom line, this is a 1W high-output LED lamp. At roughly 20
lumen/watt, it rivals the 2.5W halogens, which are around 10 lumen/watt.
LED lights with much longer "4-AA" burn times are using less than a 1W
LED, and are proportionally less bright.

The Light & Motion is apparently a 3W lamp, so puts out 3x the light of
the NiteHawk.

The Cateye EL-500 supposedly is also a 1W LED lamp, although it
advertises a 30 hr runtime (on 4xAA). I don't think it can run at full
power for that time, so it must be a "usable light" kind of spec, with
output falling off gradually.

The whole business of comparing lights based on spec is rather
frustrating. I think that manufacturers are all using basically the same
LEDs, and probably the same regulators/controllers, but they're not
going to tell you that.

I think the 1W LED lights are roughly equivalent to the well-known 2.4W
halogen lights, with better color, battery life, bulb life and low
voltage (dead/dying battery) performance. They are still kind of pricey
in comparison, and most people consider them a barely adequate "seeing"
light, and perhaps a less-adequate (than halogen) for their "be seen"
characteristics, due to narrower beam.

I think the 3W LED may be the ideal "everyman's" bike light, but they're
still very expensive.


> :>
> :> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
> :> and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower,
> :> but
> :> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
> :> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being
> :> much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over
> :> battery life
> :> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another
> :> when
> :> I can find it for $30-35USD.
>
> Nashbar has it for $45 right now.


Yeah, I know, still too much $$ for me -- perhaps with a 20% coupon...
 
R

Roger Zoul

Guest
Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:>> Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
:>>
:>> :> During your lifetime test are you sure you're on the "high"
:>> :> setting?
:>>
:>> I made certain to test the setting before starting the test. As I
:>> wasn't expect this, I checke it again last night. And since in 4
:>> hours it will have been burning for 36 hours, I just now checked it
:>> again. I'm on the "high" setting. Of course, if the light is
:>> somehow defective, then maybe "high" isn't what it's supposed to
:>> be. That's my concern.
:>>
:>
:> I think what may be going on is that, as the battery voltage drops,
:> so does the light output, effectively switching (gradually) from
:> high-power to low-power mode. I had what I'd estimate to be several
:> hours on the original batteries on mine, just switched to fresh
:> ones, and found the light to be a bit brighter. On a battery
:> checker, the original batteries showed that they were significantly
:> drained.

Okay....I think you've nailed it...the light is still on...so now it's
almost 50 hours running (admittedly w/ me turning it on/off to check which
beam is on). ..however, last night I did definitely notice a weaker
beam...before it wasn't nearly so obvious, but when I realized that I'd
never ride with so little light...somehow, for some reason, I was expecting
it to just die before 9 hrs on high beam...I thought these things were
supposed to put out constant light and then die, rather than just get
weaker. Anyhow, I don't need more than 7 hours of constant light and for
the most part, I don't plan to ride more than 3 hours after dark (I'll be
riding mainly for fitness, not for distance, this winter)

:>
:> Bottom line, this is a 1W high-output LED lamp. At roughly 20
:> lumen/watt, it rivals the 2.5W halogens, which are around 10
:> lumen/watt. LED lights with much longer "4-AA" burn times are using
:> less than a 1W LED, and are proportionally less bright.
:>
:> The Light & Motion is apparently a 3W lamp, so puts out 3x the light
:> of the NiteHawk.

Hmm...so I'm wondering if I should go with 2 Emitters on the handle bars and
one on my helmet...or get that L&M and one helmet light. I just feel I want
to be able to see off to the side on a night ride....also, I'd like to be
able to see my bike...and my computer...

I seem to recall that my main objection (or, discomfort) with the Emitter
was that the beam was just a bit too narrow for comfort...two Emitters
should solve that problem, I think. I'll probably go out tonight to get
another read on that....

As I already have this one Emitter, that's money under the bridge...so
another and $40 (with 10% off coupon) and then a helmet mount version at
$100, that's $140...versus $175 for the L&M...only thing is, I don't like
the switch on the Emitter...it hurts my fingers sometimes to switch off or
change the beam...and perhaps there is some other helmet light that is less
costly that will be just as good or better. I thinking turning a helmet
light on/off should be easy, and with the Emitter it would be a major pain.

I plan to use mine with 2300 mAh NiMI, so I'll need get a good idea of how
long these LED lights last with though (under full beam!!).

:>
:> The Cateye EL-500 supposedly is also a 1W LED lamp, although it
:> advertises a 30 hr runtime (on 4xAA). I don't think it can run at
:> full power for that time, so it must be a "usable light" kind of
:> spec, with output falling off gradually.

Yep. They should state that clearly.

:>
:> The whole business of comparing lights based on spec is rather
:> frustrating. I think that manufacturers are all using basically the
:> same LEDs, and probably the same regulators/controllers, but they're
:> not going to tell you that.

Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that reviewers
products in-depth and provides meaningful data....I guess cycling is just
not as popular as computers :)

:>
:> I think the 1W LED lights are roughly equivalent to the well-known
:> 2.4W halogen lights, with better color, battery life, bulb life and
:> low voltage (dead/dying battery) performance. They are still kind of
:> pricey in comparison, and most people consider them a barely
:> adequate "seeing" light, and perhaps a less-adequate (than halogen)
:> for their "be seen" characteristics, due to narrower beam.

I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power outage...with the
Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming cars seemed to see me just
fine and gave wide space while a good distance away....perhaps it would be
different on a much faster moving bike, but the light would be somewhat
higher up from the ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.

:>
:> I think the 3W LED may be the ideal "everyman's" bike light, but
:> they're still very expensive.

Yeah, and lights generally seem to get used mostly during winter
months....when days are short. for what you pay it seems you get relatively
little usage for the money you pay.

:>
:>
:>> :>
:>> :> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye
:>> :> MicroII and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer
:>> :> and narrower, but
:>> :> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
:>> :> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily
:>> :> being much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and
:>> :> whiteness over battery life
:>> :> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get
:>> :> another when
:>> :> I can find it for $30-35USD.
:>>
:>> Nashbar has it for $45 right now.
:>
:> Yeah, I know, still too much $$ for me -- perhaps with a 20%
:> coupon...

Yeah, all I've seen is a 10% coupon....decisions, decisions....
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
>
> Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that reviewers
> products in-depth and provides meaningful data....


As opposed to a magazine that might say "We loved the penetrating, yet
not harsh, beam of the new Zappo LED headlight. The light's carbon
fiber body nicely complimented our test bikes' carbon bars and bottle
cages, and the purple switch earned serious styling points. But it
weighed a hefty 18 grams, and during our blackout test, the light was a
little uneven for shaving our legs. So we give it only 9.5 out of ten
chainrings."


>
> I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power outage...with the
> Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming cars seemed to see me just
> fine and gave wide space while a good distance away....perhaps it would be
> different on a much faster moving bike, but the light would be somewhat
> higher up from the ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.


Actually, I don't know if you want to put too much stock in that
particular test. When my wife and I take our nighttime walks, I carry
one of those flat, 3/4" diameter single LED keychain lights. Motorists
see us just fine even with that, but I'd never consider it adequate for
biking.

>From what I've read, the swinging motion of walking seems to trigger

something special in an observer's brain. That motion is absent in a
normally mounted bike headlight. (This is why pedal reflectors are so
effective, supposedly.)

Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
about how well you're being seen.

- Frank Krygowski
 
R

Roger Zoul

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:>>
:>> Seems like we really need a consumer advocacy rag or website that
:>> reviewers products in-depth and provides meaningful data....
:>
:> As opposed to a magazine that might say "We loved the penetrating,
:> yet
:> not harsh, beam of the new Zappo LED headlight. The light's carbon
:> fiber body nicely complimented our test bikes' carbon bars and bottle
:> cages, and the purple switch earned serious styling points. But it
:> weighed a hefty 18 grams, and during our blackout test, the light
:> was a little uneven for shaving our legs. So we give it only 9.5
:> out of ten chainrings."
:>

:)

:>
:>>
:>> I went walking the other night during a neighborhood power
:>> outage...with the Emitter in hand pointed at the road, on-coming
:>> cars seemed to see me just fine and gave wide space while a good
:>> distance away....perhaps it would be different on a much faster
:>> moving bike, but the light would be somewhat higher up from the
:>> ground and pointed a bit more forward, I'd think.
:>
:> Actually, I don't know if you want to put too much stock in that
:> particular test. When my wife and I take our nighttime walks, I
:> carry
:> one of those flat, 3/4" diameter single LED keychain lights.
:> Motorists
:> see us just fine even with that, but I'd never consider it adequate
:> for biking.
:>
:>>From what I've read, the swinging motion of walking seems to trigger
:> something special in an observer's brain. That motion is absent in a
:> normally mounted bike headlight. (This is why pedal reflectors are
:> so effective, supposedly.)

Interesting.

:>
:> Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
:> drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
:> about how well you're being seen.

A good suggestion and a seemingly simple thing to do. Yet, I find doing it
challenging. I don't have a cycling friend handy right now....I'll keep an
eye out, though. :)
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> :> Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as you
> :> drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell you a lot
> :> about how well you're being seen.
>
> A good suggestion and a seemingly simple thing to do. Yet, I find doing it
> challenging. I don't have a cycling friend handy right now....I'll keep an
> eye out, though. :)


Is there a bike club in your area?

I've organized "Night Riding Workshops" for my club several times,
where we did just that. They were quite popular.

- Frank Krygowski
 
R

Roger Zoul

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
:> Roger Zoul wrote:
:>> [email protected] wrote:
:>>
:>> :> Why not get a friend to ride your bike with that headlight, as
:>> :> you drive by in a car from various directions? That would tell
:>> :> you a lot about how well you're being seen.
:>>
:>> A good suggestion and a seemingly simple thing to do. Yet, I find
:>> doing it challenging. I don't have a cycling friend handy right
:>> now....I'll keep an eye out, though. :)
:>
:> Is there a bike club in your area?
:>
:> I've organized "Night Riding Workshops" for my club several times,
:> where we did just that. They were quite popular.

There is...and a bike shop willing to help out! I'm sure I could get it
done there if I buy something! :) Thanks.
 
P

Peter Cole

Guest
David L. Johnson wrote:
> Has LED lighting come of age yet? Are these 3-watt LED lights adequate to
> light the road --- to see as well as to be seen? Anyone use these yet?
> My Nightrider battery is dying and irreplaceable, and I am looking for
> something as usable.
>


<http://www.bikefriday.com/main.cfm?fuseaction=news.article&ID=453&Category=Shop>
 
M

Mike Rice

Guest
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:53:53 -0400, Peter Cole
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>The Cateye EL-500 supposedly is also a 1W LED lamp, although it
>advertises a 30 hr runtime (on 4xAA). I don't think it can run at full
>power for that time, so it must be a "usable light" kind of spec, with
>output falling off gradually.


The EL-500 advertises 30 hour 'headlight quality' with 90 hour
'usable' time. I haven't run the clock, but I'm getting at least 20
hours good light out of mine on 4 AA's.

It is a single LED with Cateye focusing lens.

I'm very happy with this light.

>
>The whole business of comparing lights based on spec is rather
>frustrating. I think that manufacturers are all using basically the same
>LEDs, and probably the same regulators/controllers, but they're not
>going to tell you that.
>
>I think the 1W LED lights are roughly equivalent to the well-known 2.4W
>halogen lights, with better color, battery life, bulb life and low
>voltage (dead/dying battery) performance. They are still kind of pricey
>in comparison, and most people consider them a barely adequate "seeing"
>light, and perhaps a less-adequate (than halogen) for their "be seen"
>characteristics, due to narrower beam.
>
>I think the 3W LED may be the ideal "everyman's" bike light, but they're
>still very expensive.


The EL-500 runs about $50, give or take, at the LBS. They can be found
on ebay for around $30, including shipping.

Indiana Mike


>
>
>> :>
>> :> When I first got the light I did a comparison with the Cateye MicroII
>> :> and felt that the Emitter was perhaps slightly dimmer and narrower,
>> :> but
>> :> had a more even and much whiter beam. I judged them to be about
>> :> equal in usability, with the big Emitter advantage primarily being
>> :> much longer battery and bulb life, the low beam and whiteness over
>> :> battery life
>> :> being a bonus. I like it well enough that I'll probably get another
>> :> when
>> :> I can find it for $30-35USD.
>>
>> Nashbar has it for $45 right now.

>
>Yeah, I know, still too much $$ for me -- perhaps with a 20% coupon...
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> sd / msg
<[email protected]> dtd Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:29:44
-0400:

>Has LED lighting come of age yet?


Quite likely, Busch & Muller are doing it after all...

I'll let you know when mine arrive :)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound