Lighting Systems HID

[capitalhealth]

Hello All,

I have gone from 12 Volt to 6 Volt Lead Acid to NiMH system. Most of us have got 10 / 15 / 25 Watt Systems with say 4.5 amp hour batteries / head lamp etc... Holy **** batman these new HID systems are up to three times brighter use less power but cost a ton for any decent system.. Has anyone sourced HID Globes ??? (WHERE FROM) (same size as normal downlights etc) Built there own HID system???

 

[rek]

They are made by Welch Allyn, the HID units used in bike lights are part of their "Solarc" range.. I'm led to believe they are available in a number of wattages. However, they don't sell direct. I guess you could try searching the net for a local distributor or something, having the exact brand/product line handy should make enquiries easier.

For what it's worth, making an HID system would be a lot more complex than a normal halogen system.. mainly because of the ballast circuitry that needs to provide a 20kV arc to light the lamp, then about 6kV to keep it lit.

 

[capitalhealth]

They are made by Welch Allyn, the HID units used in bike lights are part of their "Solarc" range.. I'm led to believe they are available in a number of wattages. However, they don't sell direct. I guess you could try searching the net for a local distributor or something, having the exact brand/product line handy should make enquiries easier.

For what it's worth, making an HID system would be a lot more complex than a normal halogen system.. mainly because of the ballast circuitry that needs to provide a 20kV arc to light the lamp, then about 6kV to keep it lit.

I have found the same info I am waiting for a response from Welsh Allan in the U.S they sell a 12V 10Watt HID with attached ballast. The system is not that complex to build once you have the lamp and ballast. I will update this site when i find more info. I have detailed documentation on building a HID light it looks pretty dam easy. PS Please register your interest, leave email address etc. Once I build the kit I will post a photo after testing it for a few weeks. Then I am planning a Bulk order of lamps and ballasts.......

 

[rek]

I have found the same info I am waiting for a response from Welsh Allan in the U.S they sell a 12V 10Watt HID with attached ballast. The system is not that complex to build once you have the lamp and ballast. I will update this site when i find more info. I have detailed documentation on building a HID light it looks pretty dam easy. PS Please register your interest, leave email address etc. Once I build the kit I will post a photo after testing it for a few weeks. Then I am planning a Bulk order of lamps and ballasts.......

Oh, I just remembered something, you should be able to buy just an HID lamp/ballast unit from www.lumicycle.co.uk, in the spare parts section for their Halide light set. (It'll probably be expensive, though don't forget that international orders would be VAT-exempt)

It'll be interesting how you go, a lot of people put DIY HID light projects in the "too hard basket" once they realise the relative scarcity of the globes, and the complexity of the electrics required.. I took the easy way out of spending the AU$600 or so to get an off-the-shelf system.

 

[capitalhealth]

Oh, I just remembered something, you should be able to buy just an HID lamp/ballast unit from www.lumicycle.co.uk, in the spare parts section for their Halide light set. (It'll probably be expensive, though don't forget that international orders would be VAT-exempt)

It'll be interesting how you go, a lot of people put DIY HID light projects in the "too hard basket" once they realise the relative scarcity of the globes, and the complexity of the electrics required.. I took the easy way out of spending the AU$600 or so to get an off-the-shelf system.

Cheapest place to buy a full system is ebay in the US, but the web site you recommended has some cheap spares (P.S for readers U cannot build a HID lamp without a ballast) photos bellow. Globes are avaliable from local Australian Bike shops (2 Day wait - $110 / $125 per globe retail cheaper O/S but longer wait). HID lamp and ballast sell for just $50 U.S dollars. (I have 3 already on the way)

I'm sure that I can build a system at this stage for $300 AU - 1 x Headlamp and 2 x handlebar lamps run time of 4 hours per bulb. High end HID manifactured units sell for $800 and include Li Ion Batteries - Battery life timers / LED low battery warnings etc (lets face it you only have one lamp if the bulb blows your stuffed) LED low battery kits sell at jaycar for $12.00 but if I have four hours of light I think I'll just carry two batteries.

 

[tyler_derden]

I have found the same info I am waiting for a response from Welsh Allan in the U.S they sell a 12V 10Watt HID with attached ballast. The system is not that complex to build once you have the lamp and ballast. I will update this site when i find more info. I have detailed documentation on building a HID light it looks pretty dam easy. PS Please register your interest, leave email address etc. Once I build the kit I will post a photo after testing it for a few weeks. Then I am planning a Bulk order of lamps and ballasts.......

Why build an HID system which will use a limited-life, very expensive to replace lamp, when for about the cost of the HID lamp you can get two or three 5W LEDs that will burn for about 50,000 hours? Check www.lumileds.com for their 5W Luxeon V and Luxeon V Portable lamps. I believe their efficiency is even greater than HID's (even including an optional active driver circuit), they are certainly more rugged, and they last essentially forever.

www.planetbike.com sells a bike headlight that appears to use Lumiled's 1W emitter.

TD

 

[capitalhealth]

Why build an HID system which will use a limited-life, very expensive to replace lamp, when for about the cost of the HID lamp you can get two or three 5W LEDs that will burn for about 50,000 hours? Check www.lumileds.com for their 5W Luxeon V and Luxeon V Portable lamps. I believe their efficiency is even greater than HID's (even including an optional active driver circuit), they are certainly more rugged, and they last essentially forever.

www.planetbike.com sells a bike headlight that appears to use Lumiled's 1W emitter.

TD

The idea here is to build a light that you can see were you are going at an average speed of 21km/h. I cannot possibly fathium racing a mountain bike for 1 lap let alone 12 with a set of LED's..... HID lights are 300% brighter than halagen globes and only draw 0.83amp which gives you massive battery life and an awsome light that is brighter than any light on the market....

I will check out the recommended site however I have an issue with the brightness of LEDS.....

 

[moparchris]

The idea here is to build a light that you can see were you are going at an average speed of 21km/h. I cannot possibly fathium racing a mountain bike for 1 lap let alone 12 with a set of LED's..... HID lights are 300% brighter than halagen globes and only draw 0.83amp which gives you massive battery life and an awsome light that is brighter than any light on the market....

I will check out the recommended site however I have an issue with the brightness of LEDS.....

according to my mate a 5w LED's brightness would compare to a 20-25w halogen, i dunno aobut the cost of them but to me those HID lights sound like a waste of time for the cost

 

[MidBunchLurker]

according to my mate a 5w LED's brightness would compare to a 20-25w halogen, i dunno aobut the cost of them but to me those HID lights sound like a waste of time for the cost

Funny how those luxeon leds are available for all lights on a car except the headlights. Funny too how most high-end headlights on cars are HID.

If you want/need the brightest longest lasting bikelights then HID is the only option.

 

[tyler_derden]

Funny how those luxeon leds are available for all lights on a car except the headlights. Funny too how most high-end headlights on cars are HID.

If you want/need the brightest longest lasting bikelights then HID is the only option.

Actually, if you look at their web page, there are several examples of their use for cars. Of course, a single pair of 5W LEDs is not sufficient for a car, but the small size of the leds allows them to be used in different configurations, eliminating the need for "bug-eye" type headlight systems. Right now the LEDs are too expensive to go into production cars, even compared to HID systems, but the price should drop pretty quickly.

A car and a bike have different requirements. The headlights on a car have to provide an amount of light that makes driving at the legal speed limit at night safe. Bikes are generally ridden quite a bit slower than a cars legal maximum speed limit.

TD

 

[rek]

Those Luxeon LEDs look interesting, but I have doubts as to their performance against HID globes in raw light power. The beam penetration of an HID light is mind boggling, as anyone who's used one on a pitch black night will rave on about.

As a point of reference, the highest output Luxeon LED I've found on that site is 120 lumens; a 13W HID bulb puts out 675.

They'd make for an excellent lightweight helmet-mount light though, that's for sure.

 

[Weisse Luft]

Those Luxeon LEDs look interesting, but I have doubts as to their performance against HID globes in raw light power. The beam penetration of an HID light is mind boggling, as anyone who's used one on a pitch black night will rave on about.

As a point of reference, the highest output Luxeon LED I've found on that site is 120 lumens; a 13W HID bulb puts out 675.

They'd make for an excellent lightweight helmet-mount light though, that's for sure.

Another point to remember is safety. 6 kV is downright dangerous to play with. Most automobile systems have GFCI/mechanical shock protection in case of accidents. What about bicycle systems? Figure that into your home made HID's.

A better bang for the buck can be had with old Li-ion/polymer cell phone batteries and the multitude of surplus chargers. You can get 3X the energy density out of Li seondary cells based on mass and if you look carefully, the cylindrical Li-ion cells can be had for a song. Just be careful with current draw because Li has its discharge limits. Too much draw can cause a fire/explosion or damage to cells.

 

[Banatean]

Funny how those luxeon leds are available for all lights on a car except the headlights. Funny too how most high-end headlights on cars are HID.

If you want/need the brightest longest lasting bikelights then HID is the only option.

Actually in about a year you will see high end cars ( BMW 7 series,Audi A8 ) headlights with LED's for night time driving ,the technology is advancing so fast that LED's will replace incandescent light bulbs in a few years,the HID's have a limited life span,expensive to replace,the color degrades substantially over time to the point where the light will be purplelish instead of a white-ish light.
Dan

 

[Claes]

Another point to remember is safety. 6 kV is downright dangerous to play with. Most automobile systems have GFCI/mechanical shock protection in case of accidents. What about bicycle systems? Figure that into your home made HID's.

The voltage is not dangerous provided the current can't exceed tens of milliamps. At 10 milliamps, you would get a good shock, nothing lethal though. I do not know too much about how HID works, and what current it can deliver. Does anyone know? It should be said that the body is roughly a load of 1.5 kOhm, and in the region of 50 milliamp can be lethal, you only need 75 volts to be in danger. Sorry, a little OT.

 

[tyler_derden]

The voltage is not dangerous provided the current can't exceed tens of milliamps. At 10 milliamps, you would get a good shock, nothing lethal though. I do not know too much about how HID works, and what current it can deliver. Does anyone know? It should be said that the body is roughly a load of 1.5 kOhm, and in the region of 50 milliamp can be lethal, you only need 75 volts to be in danger. Sorry, a little OT.

Actually, the high voltage is supplied only momentarily to start the lamp. Once the arc has formed (milliseconds, maximum), the gas becomes conductive and even a low voltage will maintain the arc. That is why the one mentioned in a previous post is rated for 12V operation.

The circuit that provides the multi kV starting voltage does so by charging a small capacitor to the high voltage. The discharge from it is probably about the same amount of energy you'd get shuffling your shoes across a carpet then touching a door knob, so I don't think safety is an issue, unless you ride around oil refineries with volatile fumes all over the place (or you keep your bike in a garage with gasoline fumes- but in such a place, everything is a hazard).

I have a 150W xenon arc lamp from a photolithography machine that would make a real bright headlight. Hmmmmm.

TD

 

[saturnsc2]

Hello All,

I have gone from 12 Volt to 6 Volt Lead Acid to NiMH system. Most of us have got 10 / 15 / 25 Watt Systems with say 4.5 amp hour batteries / head lamp etc... Holy **** batman these new HID systems are up to three times brighter use less power but cost a ton for any decent system.. Has anyone sourced HID Globes ??? (WHERE FROM) (same size as normal downlights etc) Built there own HID system???

i bought a nite rider blow torch h.i.d. system last year from eddy's bike shop in willoughby hills, ohio u.s.a. it's a 13 volt system with a 4.5hr nimh battery. it's the same physical dimensions as their halogen systems, but much, much more brighter & much longer burn time than all of them. i paid about $400.00 for the whole system including the optional l.e.d. tail light which plugs into the main harness. it's as bright as any car head lamp. it's funny, when cars are approaching me on a dark road, they actually flash their brights on me because the light's so bright! i guess that's a good thing as i'm being "noticed"! it has a 4 hour burn time. probably the best light i ever seen! why bother to make your own when they sell awesome systems?

 

[saturnsc2]

i bought a nite rider blow torch h.i.d. system last year from eddy's bike shop in willoughby hills, ohio u.s.a. it's a 13 volt system with a 4.5hr nimh battery. it's the same physical dimensions as their halogen systems, but much, much more brighter & much longer burn time than all of them. i paid about $400.00 for the whole system including the optional l.e.d. tail light which plugs into the main harness. it's as bright as any car head lamp. it's funny, when cars are approaching me on a dark road, they actually flash their brights on me because the light's so bright! i guess that's a good thing as i'm being "noticed"! it has a 4 hour burn time. probably the best light i ever seen! why bother to make your own when they sell awesome systems?

speaking of this system does anybody here have the same system? my charger might of died last night. when i plugged the charger into the battery last night, the l.e.d. on the charger lit up red to indicate it is charging. when i went down hours later to disconnect the charger, the light was out. it usually turns green to indicate a fully charged battery, but this time it was completely out. i have not checked the charger for actual output with a volt meter yet, but the l.e.d. does not light up anymore. anybody here have this problem? nite rider says they will repair the charger in 2 weeks, but it sucks that i won't have lights for all that time....

 

[mcbaires]

I have found the same info I am waiting for a response from Welsh Allan in the U.S they sell a 12V 10Watt HID with attached ballast. The system is not that complex to build once you have the lamp and ballast. I will update this site when i find more info. I have detailed documentation on building a HID light it looks pretty dam easy. PS Please register your interest, leave email address etc. Once I build the kit I will post a photo after testing it for a few weeks. Then I am planning a Bulk order of lamps and ballasts.......

Hey batman, did you ever get that system runing? Can you tell me how to do it? I'm tired of running into trees for not having the right lighting and I'm not buying that LED story. I've seen riders use those hid lights and they kik ass.
Thanks for you imput

 

[Kreeper]

Hey batman, did you ever get that system runing? Can you tell me how to do it? I'm tired of running into trees for not having the right lighting and I'm not buying that LED story. I've seen riders use those hid lights and they kik ass.
Thanks for you imput

I too would be intereted in these systems, they look like the bee's. Is there any sites I can go to to get info on building a system for myself? Any help would be good.

 

[willtsmith]

Actually, if you look at their web page, there are several examples of their use for cars. Of course, a single pair of 5W LEDs is not sufficient for a car, but the small size of the leds allows them to be used in different configurations, eliminating the need for "bug-eye" type headlight systems. Right now the LEDs are too expensive to go into production cars, even compared to HID systems, but the price should drop pretty quickly.

A car and a bike have different requirements. The headlights on a car have to provide an amount of light that makes driving at the legal speed limit at night safe. Bikes are generally ridden quite a bit slower than a cars legal maximum speed limit.

TD

The LEDs are getting close but no cigar quite yet as far as being used for car headlights. I've seen those HID systems in action and they are WICKEDLY bright!!!!

I believe that the LEDs are more efficient, they just can't get them to scale up in power quite yet.

I've got a 1W Princeton Tec Yukon HL based on the Luxeon Star. It's probably "just enough" to get down the trail at moderate speeds. I'm anxious to see 3W and 5W models working up close. I'm guessing that the 5W model should be "more than enough" when teamed with 4 AA batteries.

LEDs for car tail-lights are now common. I think LEDs for headlights will have to wait quite a bit.

BTW, HID headlights for cars are supposedly illegal in many states. Many so called "HID" lights are really just metal-halide systems.