Lights: LED vrs. Halogen?



A

Artemisia

Guest
What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?

For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France. Only halogens. I
have to get my lights through the UK which seems daft. Is there some
stupid protectionist law in place? I've been following the other
discussion on lights and think I may get that Cateye HL-EL500 so
highly spoken of, for the trike, in addition to / instead of the
dynamo.

Flyzipper uses a 5-LED cluster light by Cateye that I bought at Condor
a few years ago. It has a very long running power on its 5
rechargeable AA batteries, but seems to fade from maximum power when
the batteries are less than fresh (I haven't changed them since last
fall). I'm not overly enchanted with it for night-riding because it
creates a bobbing puddle of light in front of the bike that confuses
my balance, since my eyes follow the light and my bike follows my
eyes, boinky boinky right into the wall... But that might just be me.
And it should be less of a problem on a trike. Apart from that it
strikes me as _vastly_ superior to the halogens available on the
French market, which eat batteries at a most fearful rate and don't
seem any brighter or less boinkier.

EFR
Ile de France
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:51:23 -0700, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?


There are halogens bulbs that are brighter than the brightest LED.

However, if you mean which bicycle lights are brighter, I think both
technologies are now similar brightness at similar powers. More
relevant might be which are most efficient.

You need to define the question better - do you want a separate
battery back, or self-contained lights? Size? Weight? Duration?

If you want brightness, halide are brighter than either, and give much
moire brightness per unit of electrical power. But maybe you don't
want to spend 200 quid on just the bulb...

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
On 6 Sep, 07:51, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?


Well, as discussed in the previous thread, when you say brighter, you
need to be clear about whether you mean throwing a beam a long way or
lighting an area brightly.

My understanding is as follows:

For ordinary lights, LEDs are the most efficient i.e. the batteries
will last longer or they use smaller batteries.

There is a limit to the brightness you can get from a single LED - the
Cateyes mentioned in the other thread (there are slightly newer/better
ones than the EL500) are pretty much state of the art in this respect.
[1]

For a good beam, you need the light source to be as small as possible.
LEDs aren't very good in this respect, so they are never going to be
great for throwing a really long beam. Again, the Cateyes seem to be
as good as it gets. [1] Halogen lights have a much smaller source, so
potentially give a much better beam, given the right optics.

Multi-LED lights can be very bright but they won't give a good beam
because the light source is spread out.

If you want something brighter (better beam) than a single LED light,
look at what MTB riders use at night. Their requirements are rather
different to road riders - they want extremely bright light but for
short periods of an hour or two. They get this with largeish
rechargeable batteries and halogen lights.

IMO, unless you ride very fast, one or maybe two Cateye-type single
LED lights are all you need for road riding.The only time this may not
be adequate is down steep fast hills where you may have to restrict
your speed a bit. I'm not really sure why you want the Cateye instead
of the dynamo, as users of modern dynamos seem to love them so much.
But the Cateye _may_ be brighter (I have no idea), so a combination of
the two might be ideal - dynamo as something that's always there,
Cateye for when conditions are difficult.

> I'm not overly enchanted with it for night-riding because it
> creates a bobbing puddle of light


The light shouldn't bob that much, are you sure it's clamped on
properly? Something that gives a beam should help here, because you
can aim it further in front of the bike, where any bobbing matters
less.

Rob

[1] I'm sure there are other LED lights with similar performance to
the Cateye, I'm just saying you won't find an LED light that's
massively better.
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Artemisia wrote:
> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?


Wot Ian siad regarding the effective bike differences.

Cutting to the chase of the real question which is, I suspect, "if I run
dynamo lights on my trike do I want LED or halogen" then I would suggest
LED. A bit brighter at low speed, no real difference at high speed,
blowing a bulb isn't really an issue.
I have a LED B&M Oval on the Streetmachine, and it's IMHO a little
better than the (nothing wrong with it) Halgen I used to have, but I
don't need to carry a spare bulb.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
A

Ace

Guest
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:51:23 -0700, Artemisia <[email protected]>
wrote:

>For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France.


How very strange. I'm not 100% certain, as I've not actually bought
any myself, but I'm pretty sure I've seen them on sale both in LBSs
and supermarkets round here.

Then again, itcould be that I've seen them in Suisse, where I work,
and consequently do more LBS browsing.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom
 
N

Nigel Cliffe

Guest
Artemisia wrote:
> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?
>
> For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France. Only halogens. I
> have to get my lights through the UK which seems daft. Is there some
> stupid protectionist law in place? I've been following the other
> discussion on lights and think I may get that Cateye HL-EL500 so
> highly spoken of, for the trike, in addition to / instead of the
> dynamo.


Decathlon list LED front and rear lamps on their French site.

So, I would assume other French shops can sell them as well.
It wouldn't surprise me to find fairly low interest in lamps in France,
where much of the cycling retailing is "sporting" with minimum weight bikes
(both road and VVT) ridden on day rides.


Over boarder to Belgium, Netherlands or Germany might be easier than UK. At
least its one currency.


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
On Sep 6, 4:51 pm, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?
>
> For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France. Only halogens. I
> have to get my lights through the UK which seems daft. Is there some
> stupid protectionist law in place? I've been following the other
> discussion on lights and think I may get that Cateye HL-EL500 so
> highly spoken of, for the trike, in addition to / instead of the
> dynamo.
>
> Flyzipper uses a 5-LED cluster light by Cateye that I bought at Condor
> a few years ago. It has a very long running power on its 5
> rechargeable AA batteries, but seems to fade from maximum power when
> the batteries are less than fresh (I haven't changed them since last
> fall). I'm not overly enchanted with it for night-riding because it
> creates a bobbing puddle of light in front of the bike that confuses
> my balance, since my eyes follow the light and my bike follows my
> eyes, boinky boinky right into the wall... But that might just be me.
> And it should be less of a problem on a trike. Apart from that it
> strikes me as _vastly_ superior to the halogens available on the
> French market, which eat batteries at a most fearful rate and don't
> seem any brighter or less boinkier.
>
> EFR
> Ile de France


www.ayup.com.au will solve your problems. Fine lights.
 
A

Ace

Guest
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:17:28 +0100, "Nigel Cliffe" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Artemisia wrote:
>> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?
>>
>> For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France.


>Decathlon list LED front and rear lamps on their French site.


Phew. I thought it was just me.

>So, I would assume other French shops can sell them as well.
>It wouldn't surprise me to find fairly low interest in lamps in France,
>where much of the cycling retailing is "sporting" with minimum weight bikes
>(both road and VVT) ridden on day rides.


I'm sure you're right, but it's also the case that the vast majority
of bikes sold are nominally for road use and therefore have to come
equipped with a full lighting set. How much use they see, and how much
interest in replacement there is, is clearly debateable, as you
suggest.

>Over boarder to Belgium, Netherlands or Germany might be easier than UK.

^^^^^^^
Is this some kind of bike-bed?

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom
 
M

Michael Warner

Guest
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:51:23 -0700, Artemisia wrote:

> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?


My impression of the Australian market is that LEDs and
HID have now, between them, pretty much killed off halogens
except where cost is critical.

I used to have a halogen system, which I picked up cheaply,
but it had poor battery life for its brightness, and a couple of
globes blew over the year or so I used it. It has a nice mechanical
design, though, so I retrofitted a 3W LED to it, replaced the
innards of the battery back to reduce the voltage and weight, and
still use it.
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Thu, 06 Sep, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 6 Sep, 07:51, Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote:
> > What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?

>
> Well, as discussed in the previous thread, when you say brighter, you
> need to be clear about whether you mean throwing a beam a long way or
> lighting an area brightly.
>
> My understanding is as follows:
>
> For ordinary lights, LEDs are the most efficient i.e. the batteries
> will last longer or they use smaller batteries.


HID are most efficient. LED come second, then halogen.

> Halogen lights have a much smaller source, so
> potentially give a much better beam, given the right optics.


I don't understand this. I think that very Halogen bulb I've ever
seen has a filament larger than the emitter on every LED I've ever
seen. An array of LEDs that are treated optically as a single light
source will be less good (for the reasons you give), but I see no
reason why an array of optically independent high-power LEDS cannot
give as good (or better) a beam.


> look at what MTB riders use at night. Their requirements are rather
> different to road riders - they want extremely bright light but for
> short periods of an hour or two. They get this with largeish
> rechargeable batteries and halogen lights.


They mostly get it with HID these days, I believe. Halogen is very
second-rate.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
A

Alan Braggins

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>There is a limit to the brightness you can get from a single LED - the
>Cateyes mentioned in the other thread (there are slightly newer/better
>ones than the EL500) are pretty much state of the art in this respect.
>[1]


If brighter means better, the Cateye Triple Shot is much better than
the EL500, not just slightly. But much more expensive.
Or, with a lot of work, you can build something like
http://www.enhydralutris.de/Fahrrad/LEDWerfer0402/#2

The EL530 might be pretty much state of the art for a compact 4-AA LED
light, but you can do much better (for some values of better).


>Multi-LED lights can be very bright but they won't give a good beam
>because the light source is spread out.


Multi-LED lights where each LED has its own optics can give just as good
a beam. And still be fairly compact, e.g.
http://www.ghostgum.com.au/misc/BikeLightV2.htm
Again, massively more light than a 4-AA Cateye like the EL500 or EL530.


>If you want something brighter (better beam) than a single LED light,
>look at what MTB riders use at night. Their requirements are rather
>different to road riders - they want extremely bright light but for
>short periods of an hour or two.


Some of them want light for all night endurance racing.


> They get this with largeish
>rechargeable batteries and halogen lights.


Or LEDs, like the USE Exposure, or Solidlights 1303 (or Cateye Shot).
Or HID, like the Cateye Stadium, for even more light.
 
T

TimHenderson

Guest
On 6 Sep, 09:17, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Artemisia wrote:
> > What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?

>


> I have a LED B&M Oval on the Streetmachine, and it's IMHO a little
> better than the (nothing wrong with it) Halgen I used to have, but I
> don't need to carry a spare bulb.
>
> Pete.


I like the sound of the latest offering from B&M - see the Lumotec IQ
fly under innovations at
http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html
 
M

Mike the unimaginative

Guest
Artemisia <[email protected]> wrote in news:1189061483.993980.119390
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?
>
> For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France. Only halogens. I
> have to get my lights through the UK which seems daft. Is there some
> stupid protectionist law in place?


I was in The Netherlands (Leiden) a couple of weeks ago, and although I
wasn't specifically looking, I don't recall seeing anything except LEDs on
sale
 
L

Larry Farrell

Guest
On Sep 7, 8:55 am, Larry Farrell <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Sep 6, 10:57 pm, POHB <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On 6 Sep, 10:44, [email protected] wrote:

>
> >>>www.ayup.com.auwillsolve your problems. Fine lights
> >> Fine lights maybe, but the most irritating unusable website I've seen
> >> for ages.

>
> > Yes, I have to agree. Even less fun with a slow connection. Persevere,
> > it's worth it.

>
> I got "Server Not Found" repeatedly.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com


Looks like the link joined to the next word. Try this
http://www.ayup.com.au/
 
M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 23:51:23 -0700, Artemisia wrote:

> What lights are brighter, LEDs or halogens?
>
> For some reason, I can't find LEDs on sale in France. Only halogens. I
> have to get my lights through the UK which seems daft. Is there some
> stupid protectionist law in place? I've been following the other
> discussion on lights and think I may get that Cateye HL-EL500 so
> highly spoken of, for the trike, in addition to / instead of the
> dynamo.


I have an older Cateye Halogen, the HL-500 Micro, which is still
better than the newer LED models like the HL-EL500. LEDs may be more
efficient than halogens, but a 1W LED still can't compete with a 2.4W
halogen.

I once borrowed an HL-El500 to ride home from a friend's house, and found
it woefully inadequate. I couldn't see the curves in the road, almost ran
into parked cars, etc. The beam is bright but too narrowly focused to be
useful.

Battery life is moot when you're using rechargeables, which you should be
using anyway.

3-5W LED lights are great, but expensive.

Matt O.