Lipoic Acid

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Margolc, Mar 10, 2004.

  1. Margolc

    Margolc Guest

    I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to help
    lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my dosage
    but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone have any
    feed back on this stuff?
     
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  2. Flying Rat

    Flying Rat Guest

    MARGOLC said this...
    > I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
    > help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
    > dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
    > have any feed back on this stuff?
    >
    Yes.

    Take the advice of a doctor and not a quack. Nutritionists
    are herb pushers and not qualified medical people.

    FR
    --
    Imitation of life

    www.flyingrat.net
     
  3. Oldal4865

    Oldal4865 Guest

    MARGOLC wrote in message <[email protected]
    m10.aol.com>...
    >I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
    >help lower my
    insulin
    >use. In one week it has decreased my dosage but I feel
    >nauseous most of the time. Does anyone have any feed back
    >on this stuff?

    Some folks think Lipoic Acid may help a bit with diabetic
    neuropathy. However, the folks who generated some favorable
    data in Germany used intravenous injections. Data on the
    oral form are contradictory.

    I have never heard of any effect on insulin use.

    I went on Google and looked again today, nothing about
    insulin use.

    Why would you want to lower your insulin use? If you have
    lowered your need for insulin, how do you know?

    I'm not being sarcastic, those are honest questions.

    It is supposed to have no significant side effects a doses
    up to 1800
    mg/day. Normal doses are less than 200 mg/day.

    Regards
    Old Al
     
  4. Bj In Texas

    Bj In Texas Guest

    MARGOLC wrote:
    > I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
    > help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
    > dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
    > have any feed back on this stuff?

    the herb pusher achieved their goal.. lightened your
    wallet... LOL BJ
     
  5. Rainbow

    Rainbow Guest

    A podiatrist I saw, actually the way was dx'd as a diabetic,
    because I had gone due to foot pain, sold it in his office.
    $30 for a monh's supply & said "some" people think it works.
    I tried it, because I didn't know any better and herbal and
    crazy cures were all the rage that year. I was desperate. I
    just as soon have snorted air and flushed my hard earned
    money down a toilet ! Or tossed it in to the wind for all
    the good it never did. Then I met a physical trainer and
    biochem student, who was doing research on it. Oral was not
    the way. It has to be a lot and intravenous and even then is
    not very effective. The money mongering podiatrist is still
    singing Ol' MacDonald, the verse about the duck: quack,
    quack, quack ! Perhaps a faith healer ! ? Better yet, the
    more control over bg I got, the lesser the pain and some of
    the feeling returned. Rainbow
     
  6. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    >I went to a nutritionist who recommended Lipoic Acid to
    >help lower my insulin use. In one week it has decreased my
    >dosage but I feel nauseous most of the time. Does anyone
    >have any feed back on this stuff?

    I have to take it with food to avoid any stomach upset, and
    I've found that only the time released formulation stayed in
    my sysem long enough to reverse peripheral neuropathies.

    Susan
     
  7. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    Old Al wrote:

    >
    >Some folks think Lipoic Acid may help a bit with diabetic
    >neuropathy. However, the folks who generated some favorable
    >data in Germany used intravenous injections. Data on the
    >oral form are contradictory.
    >

    For my money, the half life is too short, and the need to
    remember it 3X per day a problem, so timed release was the
    only way for me to go.

    I used the following to guide me, and the 600mg XR dose
    resolved the residual PNs I had after low carbing got rid of
    the worst of the pain and numbness:

    J Neurochem 2003 Jun;85 Suppl 2:15

    Therapy with antioxidants in human diabetic neuropathy.

    Ziegler D Deutsches Diabetes-Forschungsinstitut an der Heinrich-Heine-
    Universitat, Auf'm Hennekamp 65, 40225 Dusseldorf, Germany,
    [email protected]

    [Medline record in process]

    Increased oxidative stress has been implicated in the
    pathogenesis of diabetic polyneuropathy (DPN). Antioxidant
    treatment with alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) has been shown to
    prevent or ameliorate experimental diabetic neuropathy,
    providing the rationale for treatment in humans. A recent
    meta-analysis including four controlled clinical trials
    provided evidence that treatment with ALA (600
    mg/day i.v.) over 3 weeks is safe and significantly
    improves both neuropathic symptoms and deficits to a
    clinically meaningful degree in patients with
    symptomatic DPN. Moreover, oral treatment for 4-7 months
    tends to ameliorate neuropathic deficits and cardiac
    autonomic neuropathy. Clinical and postmarketing
    surveillance studies have revealed a highly favorable
    safety profile of this drug. Based on these findings, a
    pivotal long-term multicenter trial of oral treatment
    with ALA (NATHAN 1 Study) is under way aimed at slowing
    the progression of DPN.

    PMID: 12752990, UI: 22638617
    1: Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 1999;107(7):421-30 Related
    Articles, Books, LinkOut

    Alpha-lipoic acid in the treatment of diabetic
    polyneuropathy in Germany: current evidence from
    clinical trials.

    Ziegler D, Reljanovic M, Mehnert H, Gries FA.

    Diabetes-Forschungsinstitut an der Heinrich-Heine-
    Universitat, Dusseldorf, Germany. [email protected]
    duesseldorf.de

    Diabetic neuropathy represents a major health problem, as it
    is responsible for substantial morbidity, increased
    mortality, and impaired quality of life. Near-normoglycaemia
    is now generally accepted as the primary approach to
    prevention of diabetic neuropathy, but is not achievable in
    a considerable number of patients. In the past two decades
    several medical treatments that exert their effects despite
    hyperglycaemia have been derived from the experimental
    pathogenetic concepts of diabetic neuropathy. Such compounds
    have been designed to improve or slow the progression of the
    neuropathic process and are being evaluated in clinical
    trials, but with the exception of alpha-lipoic acid
    (thioctic acid) which is available in Germany, none of these
    drugs is currently available in clinical practice. Here we
    review the current evidence from the clinical trials that
    assessed the therapeutic efficacy and safety of thioctic
    acid in diabetic polyneuropathy. Thus far, 15 clinical
    trials have been completed using different study designs,
    durations of treatment, doses, sample sizes, and patient
    populations. Within this variety of clinical trials, those
    with beneficial effects of thioctic acid on either
    neuropathic symptoms and deficits due to polyneuropathy or
    reduced heart rate variability resulting from cardiac
    autonomic neuropathy used doses of at least 600 mg per day.
    The following conclusions can be drawn from the recent
    controlled clinical trials.
    2.) Short-term treatment for 3 weeks using 600 mg of
    thioctic acid i.v. per day appears to reduce the chief
    symptoms of diabetic polyneuropathy. A 3-week pilot study
    of 1800 mg per day given orally indicates that the
    therapeutic effect may be independent of the route of
    administration, but this needs to be confirmed in a larger
    sample size. 2.) The effect on symptoms is accompanied by
    an improvement of neuropathic deficits. 3.) Oral treatment
    for 4-7 months tends to reduce neuropathic deficits and
    improves cardiac autonomic neuropathy. 4.) Preliminary
    data over 2 years indicate possible long-term improvement
    in motor and sensory nerve conduction in the lower limbs.
    5.) Clinical and postmarketing surveillance studies have
    revealed a highly favourable safety profile of the drug.
    Based on these findings, a pivotal long-term multicenter
    trial of oral treatment with thioctic acid (NATHAN I
    Study) is being conducted in North America and Europe
    aimed at slowing the progression of diabetic
    polyneuropathy using a clinically meaningful and reliable
    primary outcome measure that combines clinical and
    neurophysiological assessment.

    Publication Types: Review Review, Tutorial

    PMID: 10595592 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Susan
     
  8. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    > It has to be a lot and intravenous and even then is not
    > very >effective.

    This hasn't been my experience. I got very little benefit
    with oral until I took a time released formula. It's helped
    me enormously, took about 3 mos. for results. Longer for PNs
    to stay away even when off the alpha lipoic.

    Susan
     
  9. Margolc

    Margolc Guest

    How long did you have to use it to get relief? What dosage
    did you use? Thanks<< I have to take it with food to avoid
    any stomach upset, and I've found that only the time
    released formulation stayed in my sysem long enough to
    reverse peripheral neuropathies.
     
  10. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    >
    >How long did you have to use it to get relief? What dosage
    >did you use?

    Sorry, I thought I'd posted this info. I took 600mg time
    released once daily. I'd gotten rid of most of my severe PNs
    by low carbing, but was left with numbness, a kind of
    novacained feeling every a.m. in my lower legs and feet.
    This resolved after about 3 mos. of consistent daily usage.

    It would still recur mildly if I missed a week or more of
    taking it. A few years down the road now, I can forego it
    for months without any return of PNs.

    Susan
     
  11. Rainbow

    Rainbow Guest

    I took it for many months, but I don't remember the dosage.
    I had stopped taking it when I began losing weight and
    losing 114lbs did the trick; along with exercise and steadt
    bg and A1c below 7. I think these so called remedies are
    just wishful thinking. I have taken some others, before i
    knew better, that were just a horrible waste of time, money,
    and hope. Rainbow
     
  12. Rainbow

    Rainbow Guest

    I took it for many months, but I don't remember the dosage.
    I had stopped taking it when I began losing weight and
    losing 114lbs did the trick; along with exercise and steadt
    bg and A1c below 7. I think these so called remedies are
    just wishful thinking. I have taken some others, before i
    knew better, that were just a horrible waste of time, money,
    and hope. Rainbow
     
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