Litespeed Firenze - Has anyone tried?

[Kevan Smith]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:51:23 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> from
Cox Communications wrote:

>Is the chinese worker better-fed now than twenty years ago? Does he have better access to
>education? Does he have better access to clean water? Are his children surviving?

One could ask the same question about Soviet citizens under Stalin. You're missing the point.

>That's material well-being, and all indices for it are up in the Peoples' Republic. The masters are
>in control of your well-being in an iron ricebowl, but not in a marketplace.

There is no free maketplace for labor in China. Capiche?
--
[email protected]
Mute and continue.
93

 

[Mark Hickey]

Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:46:24 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:28:15 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> from Cox
>>Communications wrote:
>>
>>>We'll have to agree to disagree here, K. I'm with Mark here. Take away those factories, and that
>>>worker returns to his village. There's nothing in the villages but farming and poverty. No
>>>savings, no hope for education by using those savings, and no hope for material advancement. The
>>>peasant lives on borrowed time and money, one crop failure away from ruin--the city worker has a
>>>chance at saving, getting his kid through high school, maybe college. That boy will have better
>>>prospects than his Dad. The material benefits are immense--all the difference between rationing
>>>and riches.
>>
>>In a totalitarian country? Who are you trying to fool? The material well being of your example
>>worker is totally dependent on his or her master.
>
>Is the chinese worker better-fed now than twenty years ago? Does he have better access to
>education? Does he have better access to clean water? Are his children surviving?
>
>That's material well-being, and all indices for it are up in the Peoples' Republic. The masters are
>in control of your well-being in an iron ricebowl, but not in a marketplace.

It's astonishing to think that millions of Chinese citizens starved to death as recently as the
1960's when you're standing in a modern Chinese city. It's hard to imagine that happening again with
the progress China has made in the last 20 years. Yes, they still have a long way to go, and no -
I'm no big fan of the Chinese government... but it's a VERY different culture based on VERY
different values, and to try to compare it to the west is a mistake that has caused untold grief,
suffering and misunderstanding for hundreds of years.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:52:31 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> from
Habanero Cycles wrote:

>Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:46:24 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 11:28:15 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> from Cox
>>>Communications wrote:
>>>
>>>>We'll have to agree to disagree here, K. I'm with Mark here. Take away those factories, and that
>>>>worker returns to his village. There's nothing in the villages but farming and poverty. No
>>>>savings, no hope for education by using those savings, and no hope for material advancement. The
>>>>peasant lives on borrowed time and money, one crop failure away from ruin--the city worker has a
>>>>chance at saving, getting his kid through high school, maybe college. That boy will have better
>>>>prospects than his Dad. The material benefits are immense--all the difference between rationing
>>>>and riches.
>>>
>>>In a totalitarian country? Who are you trying to fool? The material well being of your example
>>>worker is totally dependent on his or her master.
>>
>>Is the chinese worker better-fed now than twenty years ago? Does he have better access to
>>education? Does he have better access to clean water? Are his children surviving?
>>
>>That's material well-being, and all indices for it are up in the Peoples' Republic. The masters
>>are in control of your well-being in an iron ricebowl, but not in a marketplace.
>
>It's astonishing to think that millions of Chinese citizens starved to death as recently as the
>1960's when you're standing in a modern Chinese city. It's hard to imagine that happening again
>with the progress China has made in the last 20 years. Yes, they still have a long way to go, and
>no - I'm no big fan of the Chinese government... but it's a VERY different culture based on VERY
>different values, and to try to compare it to the west is a mistake that has caused untold grief,
>suffering and misunderstanding for hundreds of years.

Everyone wants freedom.
--
[email protected]
Ask people to work against their better judgement.
15

 

[Chalo]

David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote:

> if you're going to pay domestic rates you may as well reap the benefits by keeping the jobs
> domestic.

If those "benefits" include having to deal with businesses that are part of the U.S. military-
industrial complex (as I would expect of most Ti suppliers and fabricators), then you'll still save
money going elsewhere to do your manufacturing.

Chalo Colina