Live 8 Philly, invitation!

dee said:

Quoted message said:

I thought about quoting a post, and, then just decided not to. The
topic says it all. So very little of the money raised in the name of
this project, has actually gotten to the people who need it.

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive debts,
and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:24:30 -0400, "Debbie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive debts,
and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

When will Africa improve?

The US already does more than its' share.
$19 billion to Worldwide Developement Assistance, $ 3.2 billion to
Africa alone in 2004.
An increase to $2.4 billion in 2004 for global hiv/aids again a large
chunk going to Africa. That's more than all the other donor nations
combined.
$9.1 billion in humanitarian relief went out in 2004 alone.
We import $604 billion in trade from developing countries duty/tarif
free. 97% of the imports from Africa come in duty free. Trade with
Africa has increased by 37%.
In 99 Clinton directed that 100% of debt to us be written off from 83
countries many in Africa.
So far under Bush we have written off $40 billion in african debt.
That's several 100s of billion that never go into our economy to
improve things or pay for programs.
It's time for the other countries to step up and stop talking and do
something too.

day dreamer@dream .com@ said:

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:24:30 -0400, "Debbie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field,
forgive debts, and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

When will Africa improve?

The US already does more than its' share.

You know.. it is time for everyone to stop yapping about what they do. They
thing is that everyone needs to help.. and to keep helping and not get
discouraged. By not helping we are letting millions of people die...
allowing countries to be in such unrest that they become fertile ground for
terrorist camps etc. We can sit back and do nothing (or nothing more as the
case may be) and then perhaps in a few years complain about these countries
as being the place that the terrorists are coming from. OR, we can
encourage our governments to step in and help these countries change. It is
truly sad seeing children die by the hundreds. This is my last word on the
subject.. wrong newsgroup for this discussion and not interested in watching
it deteriorate into flames. These are my opinions only.. yours may be
different.

Debbie

day dreamer@dream .com@ said:

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:24:30 -0400, "Debbie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field,
forgive debts, and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

When will Africa improve?

The US already does more than its' share.

You know.. it is time for everyone to stop yapping about what they do. They
thing is that everyone needs to help.. and to keep helping and not get
discouraged. By not helping we are letting millions of people die...
allowing countries to be in such unrest that they become fertile ground for
terrorist camps etc. We can sit back and do nothing (or nothing more as the
case may be) and then perhaps in a few years complain about these countries
as being the place that the terrorists are coming from. OR, we can
encourage our governments to step in and help these countries change. It is
truly sad seeing children die by the hundreds. This is my last word on the
subject.. wrong newsgroup for this discussion and not interested in watching
it deteriorate into flames. These are my opinions only.. yours may be
different.

Debbie

Debbie said:

You know.. it is time for everyone to stop yapping about what they do.
They [sic] thing is that everyone needs to help.. and to keep helping
and not get discouraged. By not helping we are letting millions of
people die...

....and Atlas shrugged.

Since when does "need" mean the same thing as "entitlement"?

Bob

Debbie said:

dee said:

Quoted message said:

I thought about quoting a post, and, then just decided not to. The
topic says it all. So very little of the money raised in the name of
this project, has actually gotten to the people who need it.

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive debts,
and assist in more meaningful ways.

Gee, I wish the bank would do that for me. Why should we level the
trading field and so on, only to funnel millions into the coffers of
murdering dictators. How could we possibly have meaningful trade,
even if the leaders weren't corrupt? It would only be Nafta times a
thousand. It's a shame there isn't a way to do something helpful, but
I just don't see how it can be done. And when the debt is forgiven,
it will soon mount again to record levels. It's a problem with no
solution, and funneling more trillions into it is not going to fix it.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

Debbie said:

You know.. it is time for everyone to stop yapping about what they do. They
thing is that everyone needs to help.. and to keep helping and not get
discouraged. By not helping we are letting millions of people die...
allowing countries to be in such unrest that they become fertile ground for
terrorist camps etc. We can sit back and do nothing (or nothing more as the
case may be) and then perhaps in a few years complain about these countries
as being the place that the terrorists are coming from. OR, we can
encourage our governments to step in and help these countries change. It is
truly sad seeing children die by the hundreds. This is my last word on the
subject.. wrong newsgroup for this discussion and not interested in watching
it deteriorate into flames. These are my opinions only.. yours may be
different.

You are welcome to your opinion. I am stuck between not giving a damn and
insisting on aid with a lot of strings attached. The African countries with the
best conditions now are those that have lots of oil and those which were well
established and heavily settled British colonies. Perhaps they need outside
guidance to led into economic viability. Maybe the western countries should over
various countries colonial or protectorate status, move in some well trained
people to administer their African holdings and become responsible for the
administration of any aid offered. Let's face the fact that the money we have
been sending for years has been squandered by the leaders. Rather than fight
colonial wars to protect them, bail out at the first sign of trouble and leave
the people to make it on their own.

day said:

When will Africa improve?

The US already does more than its' share.

Despite my feelings that our present system of aid to Africa is a waste of
money, I have to disagree with your suggestion that the US does more than its
fair share. While it is true that the amount of aid from the US is large, the
US is a very wealthy country and has a large population. The problem is that
the per capita contribution is pitifully small when compared to western European
countries.

Quoted message said:

So far under Bush we have written off $40 billion in african debt.
That's several 100s of billion that never go into our economy to
improve things or pay for programs.
It's time for the other countries to step up and stop talking and do
something too.

Be careful of what you ask for. As an American, you may be in a better position
to contribute than Europeans. In order to match the per capita contribution from
most European countries, you'd be paying 10 times as much.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:24:30 -0400, "Debbie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

dee said:

Quoted message said:

I thought about quoting a post, and, then just decided not to. The
topic says it all. So very little of the money raised in the name of
this project, has actually gotten to the people who need it.

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive debts,
and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

This is what I don't understand- how does going to a free concert
encourage governments to do anything? They look at the TV and think
"Those are popular musicians and it was a beautiful day." That's the
only conclusion that can be made from the event.

Wouldn't it be a lot more convincing if these people showed up to
express concern about Africa without the draw of great bands? In the
end, the real challenge is to the *concertgoers:* to see if THEY
respond to the call to put pressure on governments.

Was Live8 just a good time or was it a real personal committment to
carry the torch?

With all due respect to Geldoff who gets a lot of well-deserved credit
for trying anyway, Nicholas Kristoff of the New York Times has been
relentless in bringing the problems of Africa (and other global
issues) to the attention of the public, with a lot less personal
fanfare and more personal involvement.

The G8 has already made plans for debt relief. When it goes through
it will be interesting to see if Live8 claims it had influence.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

The cause of all the problems in africa is africans

(Curly Sue) said:

The G8 has already made plans for debt relief. When it goes through
it will be interesting to see if Live8 claims it had influence.

Isn't it interesting how free they are with OUR money? I'd like the
freedom to flush it down yet another cesspool myself, thank you, if
that's the plan for it. G8 sounds so innocuous, doesn't it? The gang
of theives.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 14:14:52 GMT, [email hidden]

(AlleyGator) said:

(Curly Sue) said:

The G8 has already made plans for debt relief. When it goes through
it will be interesting to see if Live8 claims it had influence.

Isn't it interesting how free they are with OUR money? I'd like the
freedom to flush it down yet another cesspool myself, thank you, if
that's the plan for it. G8 sounds so innocuous, doesn't it? The gang
of theives.

Sorry, don't look to me to complain about debt relief for Africa. I
realize there are problems with that, but it needs to be done.
Hopefully the G8 will also address the issues of fair trade so that
Africans can benefit from their products.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

AlleyGator said:

Isn't it interesting how free they are with OUR money? I'd like the
freedom to flush it down yet another cesspool myself, thank you, if
that's the plan for it. G8 sounds so innocuous, doesn't it? The gang
of theives.

I think the theory is that it makes some of those countries slightly more
stable so that if there is any mineral wealth or some sort of market for
your goods it makes is slightly more habitable for those who go in to
develop it. Some of those high cost toys the dictators get, like luxury
jets, is money in the pockets of our companies.

(Curly Sue) said:

Sorry, don't look to me to complain about debt relief for Africa. I
realize there are problems with that, but it needs to be done.
Hopefully the G8 will also address the issues of fair trade so that
Africans can benefit from their products.

Yes, Sue it would be nice to help people. Funny how we ignore untold
thousands of people at home who are starving and homeless, then
confiscate money from those who might otherwise have the means to
help, and use that same stolen money and food to richen the pockets of
a tin-horn dictator. Africa is a cesspool, and all the money in the
world isn't going to fix it. To think otherwise would be somewhat
naive. Although having some particular "cause" to blindly and
illogically support does make some people sleep better at night. It's
a lot easier than volunteering at a soup kitchen isn't it?

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:58:10 GMT, [email hidden]

(AlleyGator) said:

(Curly Sue) said:

Sorry, don't look to me to complain about debt relief for Africa. I
realize there are problems with that, but it needs to be done.
Hopefully the G8 will also address the issues of fair trade so that
Africans can benefit from their products.

Yes, Sue it would be nice to help people. Funny how we ignore untold
thousands of people at home who are starving and homeless, then
confiscate money from those who might otherwise have the means to
help, and use that same stolen money and food to richen the pockets of
a tin-horn dictator. Africa is a cesspool, and all the money in the
world isn't going to fix it. To think otherwise would be somewhat
naive. Although having some particular "cause" to blindly and
illogically support does make some people sleep better at night. It's
a lot easier than volunteering at a soup kitchen isn't it?

It's also pretty easy volunteering at a soup kitchen and thinking
that's where your responsibility to humanity ends.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Debbie said:

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive debts,
and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

I think thats just a code-phrase for;

Have the G-8 countrys
screw their workers with higher taxes
so they can pour money down the rat-hole.

It moves "charity" from optional,
to government imposed "mandatory".....

<rj>

Dave Smith said:

day said:

When will Africa improve?

The US already does more than its' share.

Despite my feelings that our present system of aid to Africa is a waste of
money, I have to disagree with your suggestion that the US does more than

its

Quoted message said:

fair share. While it is true that the amount of aid from the US is large,

the

Quoted message said:

US is a very wealthy country and has a large population. The problem is

that

Quoted message said:

the per capita contribution is pitifully small when compared to western

European

Quoted message said:

countries.

You are forgetting the HUGE defense burden that the US has shouldered around
the world since 1945, that also is a form of "foreign aid". We kept (and
are keeping) the peace on the frontlines of the European East - West divide,
Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc. We successfully stood down the Soviet Evil
Empire, that took trillions and trillions of dollars over the years.
Luckily the outcome favoured us, by hook or crook it could have easily gone
the other way, e.g. total utter thermonuclear destruction...

The US *single - handedly* kept the peace all these years, that's a pretty
major accomplishment. You can't argue that fact.

Let those nagging Europeans, etc. remember who fed, warmed, and clothed them
during those record cold winters of '45, '46, '47...it is *directly* because
of US largesse they now have the luxury of criticising us. They wouldn't be
nearly so smug and comfortable if postwar popular US public opinion had held
sway during the immediate postwar years, fortunately we had visionary titans
like General Marshall and President Truman (and despite my dislike of the
man, I'll include General MacArthur with his Japan occupation policy) who
could see beyond the mundane opinion polls and lend a helping hand to Europe
and other places.

--
Best
Greg

Curly Sue said:

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:24:30 -0400, "Debbie" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

dee said:

> I thought about quoting a post, and, then just decided not to. The
> topic says it all. So very little of the money raised in the name of
> this project, has actually gotten to the people who need it.

Which is why this isnt' about raising money. The live 8 is about
encouraging the richer countries to level the trading field, forgive

debts,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and assist in more meaningful ways.

Debbie

This is what I don't understand- how does going to a free concert
encourage governments to do anything? They look at the TV and think
"Those are popular musicians and it was a beautiful day." That's the
only conclusion that can be made from the event.

Wouldn't it be a lot more convincing if these people showed up to
express concern about Africa without the draw of great bands? In the
end, the real challenge is to the *concertgoers:* to see if THEY
respond to the call to put pressure on governments.

Was Live8 just a good time or was it a real personal committment to
carry the torch?

It's just a bunch of grotty, aging Brit rock stars who have to draw
attention to themselves, Sue. They've got more ridiculous "causes" than
you've grains of salt in your sea salt shaker...

I was reading in some UK paper or other about some anti - poverty
"demonstration" going on that was tied in with this concert thing , a bunch
of dolts were going around wearing white armbands or some such that said
"End Poverty!". Yeah, as if. Pass me the bong, matey...

[Apparently they chartered a train to attend the concert, because of an
operating glitch, the train stalled on the tracks. Lol...a great metaphor]

One of the major roots of poverty in the Third World is subjugation of
women, this is a factor that needs to be addressed....

One program that *does* work are the the "micro - loan" programmes that
exist in Bangladesh, India, etc. Fifty or a hundred bux is given to a
woman, with that seed money they can buy a cheap sewing machine and some
bolts of cloth, some chickens, some garden seeds and fertilizer, etc. The
woman is given some basic literacy/small business training, in no time at
all these women are running little money - making businesses. With this,
they can boot out that LAZY ABUSIVE [censored] of a husband, these gals are now
earning their own way and are subservient to nobody. They are building
wealth and a legacy upon which future generations can build. That's how you
have to work it, enough with the grandiose "aid" programs already.

These programs don't cost much overhead - wise, they are highly successful.
The money goes directly to where it'll do the most good, not to some corrupt
UN or government kleptocracy...

--
Best
Greg

Debbie said:

You know.. it is time for everyone to stop yapping about what they do. They
thing is that everyone needs to help.. and to keep helping and not get
discouraged. By not helping we are letting millions of people die...
allowing countries to be in such unrest that they become fertile ground for
terrorist camps etc. We can sit back and do nothing (or nothing more as the
case may be) and then perhaps in a few years complain about these countries
as being the place that the terrorists are coming from. OR, we can
encourage our governments to step in and help these countries change. It is
truly sad seeing children die by the hundreds. This is my last word on the
subject.. wrong newsgroup for this discussion and not interested in watching
it deteriorate into flames. These are my opinions only.. yours may be
different.

Debbie

I guess they should bring back colonialism.
Under colonialism, cities were built,
utilitys installed,
there was employment,
rule of law
the countries fed themselves AND exported product.

now, Africa is a joke ! A whole continent on welfare.
( of course, they blame colonialism )

<rj>

Dave Smith:

The header of this post is vaguely racist. The word 'Africa' with a
question mark ? after it would, IMO, have been more appropriate:

---
Joseph Littleshoes
may be consulted at
---
http://finblake.home.mindspring.com/tarotintro.htm