London Taxi Attempted Assault



On 9 Jul 2004 06:54:11 -0700, Matt G <[email protected]> wrote:

> Any advice anyone can give me on how to pursue a rather nasty incident
> that happened to me last night? The police say that since the
> witnesses' names and addresses were not collected there is nothing
> they can do.

[...]

I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver deliberately
pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me. He seemed to take
offence at me passing him (safely) on the inside (using a bicycle lane)
while he was in a stationary queue. He made contact with my arm and I came
close to coming off. I went to the police with details, but no witnesses.
They advised me that taking formal action against him would be difficult
but as they had the time and the bus number they could, and did, contact
the bus company and issue an informal warning. It might be worth asking if
the police can at least make such an informal approach.

Colin
 
"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On 9 Jul 2004 06:54:11 -0700, Matt G <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Any advice anyone can give me on how to pursue a rather nasty incident
> > that happened to me last night? The police say that since the
> > witnesses' names and addresses were not collected there is nothing
> > they can do.

> [...]
>


> I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
> deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.


....

O.K so far. But could you see enough to be sure he wasn't moving
closer to the curb simply to avoid another vehicle on his offside ?
A lorry parked on the other side of the street maybe ? Another
line of traffic ?

....

> He seemed to take offence at me passing him (safely) on the inside
> (using a bicycle lane) while he was in a stationary queue.


....

But this is pure conjecture on your part. You can't possibly
know that. That would also seem to imply that he's never been
passed by cyclists before on his inside. Which for a bus driver
would be rather strange, to say the least.

....

> He made contact with my arm and I came close to coming off.


....

If you don't see it coming yes. But that seems to suggest he moved
across sharply. I have drops and a mircycle which would get a nudge
every other month while riding in Central London, among slower moving
traffic admittedly, if it wasn't for the use of preventive measures.

Did you actually make eye contact with the driver in his near
side mirror ? Are you sure he actually saw you? That's no excuse
admittedly, but its maybe more comforting than automatically
assuming evil intent.

As you sensed the bus drawing closer did you try and take any preventive
measures? Did you for instance bang on the side with side of the
bus, with your hand ? This is a useful thing to learn as it immediately
alerts the driver, if he didn't already know, the passengers, and anyone
on the pavemnet at the time, to the fact that something is going on. It's
a more neutral sound than shouting which can came from any source and
immediately denotes anger and unreasonableness.
Don't be reluctant to do this to cars either where necessary, but maybe not
quite so loud or angrily. They're in the wrong, end of story. Normally a
shrug to them afterwards in the near side mirror will do the trick. After
they recover from the shock. Although learning to unhook and wield your
Citadel lock within two seconds flat can come in useful too.

One way to proceed when riding a bike is to assume that you're invisble
and that lorries, cars, and buses simply can't see you. And act
accordingly. With anything extra coming as a bonus. You'll be safer
that way, regardless of the rights and wrongs of it.



Curious


I went to the police with details, but no witnesses.
> They advised me that taking formal action against him would be difficult
> but as they had the time and the bus number they could, and did, contact
> the bus company and issue an informal warning. It might be worth asking

if
> the police can at least make such an informal approach.
>
> Colin
>
 
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:36:06 +0100, Dr Curious <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
>> deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.

>
> ...
>
> O.K so far.


This incident is well in the past and has been mentioned here before,
shortly after it happened. I repeat the story briefly only to suggest that
one course of action is for the original poster to ask the police take an
informal approach. I do not intend to discuss the incident itself with a
f*ckwit of your order.

Colin
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> > I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
> > deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.

>
> O.K so far. But could you see enough to be sure he wasn't moving
> closer to the curb simply to avoid another vehicle on his offside ?
> A lorry parked on the other side of the street maybe ? Another
> line of traffic ?


I see what you're getting at but... no excuse. If you need to avoid a
vehicle that is in your lane and can do so by changing lanes then there
is a procedure to follow. It begins "Mirror, Signal". Had the OP been a
car there would almost certainly have been significant damage to both
the car and bus.

> > He seemed to take offence at me passing him (safely) on the inside
> > (using a bicycle lane) while he was in a stationary queue.

>
> But this is pure conjecture on your part. You can't possibly
> know that. That would also seem to imply that he's never been
> passed by cyclists before on his inside. Which for a bus driver
> would be rather strange, to say the least.


I've been given grief by bus drivers for doing this before. I'm now a
strong enough cyclist to overtake rather than undertake on most
occasions but sometimes I get caught out. I actually managed to almost
replicate this on Sunday.

Two lanes at the junction. The left one becomes a bus / taxi / cycle
lane, the right is "normal". It's a sunday, so there are cars parked in
the bus lane, but the lane is wide enough to allow a cyclist through
with room to spare. A bus is next to me in the right hand lane. The
lights change and we move off. The bus matches my speed, pulls slightly
forward (I'm now about halfway down its length). Signals left and
leaving now time, pulls into a bus stop. A number of people in the bus
and at the bus stop learnt a whole new manner of swearing as I locked my
rear wheel and headed kerbwards in an attempt to avoid being mashed. The
bus stopped, I went round the front (still screaming) and cycled off
down the road, shaking slightly. The driver had to be at least partially
aware of me, as we had made eye contact while sat at the junction.

The resultant adrenaline rush meant that I shot straight past the
turning I was meant to take and had to turn around and ride back up the
hill.

> If you don't see it coming yes. But that seems to suggest he moved
> across sharply. I have drops and a mircycle which would get a nudge
> every other month while riding in Central London, among slower moving
> traffic admittedly, if it wasn't for the use of preventive measures.


Why? Why should I (or anyone else) have to cycle defensively? I got
caught out, but these days I tend to take a lane as mine where possible
and dictate when / where I will be overtaken. I would be less agressive
about it if I hadn't had quite so many close escapes.

> Did you actually make eye contact with the driver in his near
> side mirror ? Are you sure he actually saw you? That's no excuse
> admittedly, but its maybe more comforting than automatically
> assuming evil intent.


I rank not checking mirrors as evil intent. 7.5T+ of metal being moved
around the roads should be a cause for concern. Edinburgh seems to have
gained a new shift of bus drivers recently because I've noticed more
stupid / bad driving from them in the last week than over the preceding
two months.

> As you sensed the bus drawing closer did you try and take any preventive
> measures? Did you for instance bang on the side with side of the
> bus, with your hand ? This is a useful thing to learn as it immediately
> alerts the driver, if he didn't already know, the passengers, and anyone
> on the pavemnet at the time, to the fact that something is going on. It's
> a more neutral sound than shouting which can came from any source and
> immediately denotes anger and unreasonableness.


As a general rule, when people try to kill _me_, I get angry. That seems
reasonable. Banging on vehicles is a better strategy, but often both
hands are engaged in "death avoidance" and kicking at things could well
prove fatal.

> Don't be reluctant to do this to cars either where necessary, but maybe not
> quite so loud or angrily. They're in the wrong, end of story. Normally a
> shrug to them afterwards in the near side mirror will do the trick. After
> they recover from the shock. Although learning to unhook and wield your
> Citadel lock within two seconds flat can come in useful too.


I like it. I'm still quite interested in getting a machining company to
produce some Bar-Endz (see Sheldon Brown).

Jon
 
"Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:36:06 +0100, Dr Curious <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
> >> deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.

> >
> > ...
> >
> > O.K so far.

>
> This incident is well in the past and has been mentioned here before,
> shortly after it happened. I repeat the story briefly only to suggest

that
> one course of action is for the original poster to ask the police take an
> informal approach. I do not intend to discuss the incident itself with a
> f*ckwit of your order.



Somebody however, with it would appear, infinitely more experience of
riding a bicycle in town than you have.

The example you gave merely serves to provide a good example of how
the more immature inexperienced rider such as yourself is likely to
behave in such circumstances, and can provide a good warning to
others.

And as such, it's highly unlikely that you'd have very much to contribute
to the conversation in any case.

Given that as you say, the incident happened a long time ago and yet you
don't appear to have learned anything new in the interim.

If you wish to proceed on the assumption that bus drivers and other
road users are conducting a personal vendetta against you, then
that's your prerogative. But I wouldn't automatically assume that
many others will necessarily want to share that view.

Have a nice day, Colin.



Curious

....









>
> Colin
 
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:58:46 +0100, Dr Curious wrote:

> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:eek:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:36:06 +0100, Dr Curious <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Colin Blackburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
>>>> deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> O.K so far.

>>
>> This incident is well in the past and has been mentioned here before,
>> shortly after it happened. I repeat the story briefly only to suggest

> that
>> one course of action is for the original poster to ask the police take an
>> informal approach. I do not intend to discuss the incident itself with a
>> f*ckwit of your order.

>
>
> Somebody however, with it would appear, infinitely more experience of
> riding a bicycle in town than you have.
>
> The example you gave merely serves to provide a good example of how
> the more immature inexperienced rider such as yourself is likely to
> behave in such circumstances, and can provide a good warning to
> others.
>
> And as such, it's highly unlikely that you'd have very much to contribute
> to the conversation in any case.
>
> Given that as you say, the incident happened a long time ago and yet you
> don't appear to have learned anything new in the interim.
>
> If you wish to proceed on the assumption that bus drivers and other
> road users are conducting a personal vendetta against you, then
> that's your prerogative. But I wouldn't automatically assume that
> many others will necessarily want to share that view.
>
> Have a nice day, Colin.
>


As Colin said, you are a f*ckwit.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He has Van Gogh's ear for music." - Billy Wilder
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk
 
"Frank X" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Matt G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > A further 20 seconds later, I realised that the same vehicle was
> > pulling up behind me and that the driver was hurling abuse at me
> > through the open window. Terrified, I pulled my bicycle onto the kerb
> > again, in fear that he would attempt to run me down, and called 999 on
> > my mobile as quickly as possible. He then did a U turn and headed
> > south along the Outer Circle. All I can remember about what he
> > shouted was one line: "You don't like it much when someone tries it on
> > you, do you, you ****?" He also spat at me through the open window.
> >

>
> Doesn't sound unusual for a London Black Cab. I'm surprised another one

did
> pull up to give him a hand.
>
> I doubt you'll get the police to do anything.
>

Just found this story in Saturday's Irish Times which is sort of relevant. A
Dublin taxi driver has been prosecuted on a charge of "failing to behave in
a civil manner" towards a passenger. Apparently when the passenger asked for
their change he became abusive. She complained to the Carriage Office (which
has a Garda attached to it) and the case was prosecuted. The driver (who has
a previous conviction for assault) didn't turn up to court and the judge
said "it was too serious a matter for a penalty to be imposed in (his)
absence". So he's issued a warrant for his arrest.
I think in the OP's encounter the taxi driver was definitely failing to
behave in a civil manner. Lucky for him (and us) he's not in Dublin!

tony R.
 
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 17:19:40 +0100, anonymous coward
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>How are taxis regulated? A particular company often beeps their horn
>outside my window as late as 3.00 AM, so I have an interest. I've got as
>far as the yellow pages, but didn't find anything that looked like a
>regulatory agency.


Call the environmental healtyh people. If their midnight watch bod
gets woken up often enough they could get nasty, and they tend to be
part of the same council which licenses the cabs :)

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
 
On Mon, 12 Jul, Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

> Call the environmental healtyh people. If their midnight watch bod
> gets woken up often enough they could get nasty, and they tend to be
> part of the same council which licenses the cabs :)


In my experience environmental health are about as useless as the
proverbial chocolate teapot, at least as far as middle-of-the-night
noises are concerned.

We have an office across the road from our house, which over the
course of about four months averaged teh burgular alarm about 4 times
a week. Some nights it went off 5 or 6 times in a night.
Evironmental health did (roughly) FA, since it switched itself off
after 18 minutes (typically switching itself on again later in the
night) and environmental health would only do something for a noise of
more than 20-minutes duration. The fact that it's the third 18 minute
siren of the night, and that it also went off teh previous three
nights running counted for nothing.

The building management company and alarm company were similarly
useless ("well, we could send a technician out to examine it, but it
will probably shut itself off in about 15 minutes").

It only stopped after I screamed abuse down teh phone one morning (3
or 4 am, something like that) and assured the environmental health
person that I could and would fix the siren box myself with a ladder
and a sledge-hammer, both of which were at that moment in my
possession.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

> <AOL/>


No AOLer would knowingly use a self-terminating XML tag, surely?

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
 
Jon Senior wrote:
>>But this is pure conjecture on your part. You can't possibly
>>know that. That would also seem to imply that he's never been
>>passed by cyclists before on his inside. Which for a bus driver
>>would be rather strange, to say the least.

>
> I've been given grief by bus drivers for doing this before.


One of the Sheffield lot came up with a novel one. There I was,
cycling down the road at a brisk 15 mph (it's brisk for me, OK?), when
I'm overtaken by a brace of buses. The first gives me plenty of room,
no problemo. The second follows the first (at 30 mph) about five feet
off the first's rear bumper, gets half-way past me, then pulls in and
runs me off the road - fortunately we were passing an empty side road so
I had room to bail out. Adrenalin rush. Catch up with him at the next
set of lights and overtake, then stop by his window. Ask him what the
**** he was playing at. He said, "You shouldn't have been undertaking
me."
 
Ricardo [email protected] opined the following...
> One of the Sheffield lot came up with a novel one. There I was,
> cycling down the road at a brisk 15 mph (it's brisk for me, OK?), when
> I'm overtaken by a brace of buses. The first gives me plenty of room,
> no problemo. The second follows the first (at 30 mph) about five feet
> off the first's rear bumper, gets half-way past me, then pulls in and
> runs me off the road - fortunately we were passing an empty side road so
> I had room to bail out. Adrenalin rush. Catch up with him at the next
> set of lights and overtake, then stop by his window. Ask him what the
> **** he was playing at. He said, "You shouldn't have been undertaking
> me."


And you said? (If it's printable!) That's a simply cracking response.

Jon
 
"Jon Senior" <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
> > > I was once run off the road by a bus in Oxford. The driver
> > > deliberately pulled closer to the kerb as he pulled alongside me.

> >
> > O.K so far. But could you see enough to be sure he wasn't moving
> > closer to the curb simply to avoid another vehicle on his offside ?
> > A lorry parked on the other side of the street maybe ? Another
> > line of traffic ?

>
> I see what you're getting at but... no excuse. If you need to avoid a
> vehicle that is in your lane and can do so by changing lanes then there
> is a procedure to follow. It begins "Mirror, Signal". Had the OP been a
> car there would almost certainly have been significant damage to both
> the car and bus.
>
> > > He seemed to take offence at me passing him (safely) on the inside
> > > (using a bicycle lane) while he was in a stationary queue.

> >
> > But this is pure conjecture on your part. You can't possibly
> > know that. That would also seem to imply that he's never been
> > passed by cyclists before on his inside. Which for a bus driver
> > would be rather strange, to say the least.

>
> I've been given grief by bus drivers for doing this before. I'm now a
> strong enough cyclist to overtake rather than undertake on most
> occasions but sometimes I get caught out. I actually managed to almost
> replicate this on Sunday.
>
> Two lanes at the junction. The left one becomes a bus / taxi / cycle
> lane, the right is "normal". It's a sunday, so there are cars parked in
> the bus lane, but the lane is wide enough to allow a cyclist through
> with room to spare. A bus is next to me in the right hand lane. The
> lights change and we move off. The bus matches my speed, pulls slightly
> forward (I'm now about halfway down its length). Signals left and
> leaving now time, pulls into a bus stop. A number of people in the bus
> and at the bus stop learnt a whole new manner of swearing as I locked my
> rear wheel and headed kerbwards in an attempt to avoid being mashed. The
> bus stopped, I went round the front (still screaming) and cycled off
> down the road, shaking slightly. The driver had to be at least partially
> aware of me, as we had made eye contact while sat at the junction.
>
> The resultant adrenaline rush meant that I shot straight past the
> turning I was meant to take and had to turn around and ride back up the
> hill.


....

The resultant adrelalin rush presumably meant your judgement was
impaired. Just thank yourself lucky that missing a turning was the
worst that happened. Basically whether we happen to like it or not as
cyclists, buses are always going to be pulling into curbs at the drop
of a hat. Bus drivers spend half of their days being wound up by
schoolkids. Being caught on the inside of a bus is generally
a bad idea to be avoided if at all possible. Also our being on a
bike costs the bus company a fare.

....

>
> > If you don't see it coming yes. But that seems to suggest he moved
> > across sharply. I have drops and a mircycle which would get a nudge
> > every other month while riding in Central London, among slower moving
> > traffic admittedly, if it wasn't for the use of preventive measures.

>
> Why? Why should I (or anyone else) have to cycle defensively?


....

Short answer. Because buses are bigger than you are. Longer answer
you're not. If you were riding defensively you wouldn't even be going
there in the first place. By anticipating whats likely to happen you
can in fact squeeze through smaller gaps on either side.

....

> I got
> caught out, but these days I tend to take a lane as mine where possible
> and dictate when / where I will be overtaken. I would be less agressive
> about it if I hadn't had quite so many close escapes.


.....

Its pointless occupying a lane when you're moving so much faster
than the other traffic. I'm always overtaking on either side.
That's the point of riding a bike in London anyway. Anyone can go
faster than the cars nowadays. Or the buses. Other situations
may be different.

....

>
> > Did you actually make eye contact with the driver in his near
> > side mirror ? Are you sure he actually saw you? That's no excuse
> > admittedly, but its maybe more comforting than automatically
> > assuming evil intent.

>
> I rank not checking mirrors as evil intent. 7.5T+ of metal being moved
> around the roads should be a cause for concern. Edinburgh seems to have
> gained a new shift of bus drivers recently because I've noticed more
> stupid / bad driving from them in the last week than over the preceding
> two months.


....

That depends on how often they do it and how quickly the bike
arrives on the scene, In the original scenario it wasn't at
all clear how far away the bus was originally away from the curb,
before the incident unfolded. The standard of bus driving must
surely have deteriorated with the introduction of one man operation.
A combination of worse trafic conditions with more for the
drivers to do, especially dealing with schoolkids twice a day.
It's like a lot of things. Standards have fallen badly and everybody
pretends they haven't. But rather than trying to save the world,
its probably better in the short term to just try and avoid getting
caught on the inside of buses if at all possible.

....


>
> > As you sensed the bus drawing closer did you try and take any

preventive
> > measures? Did you for instance bang on the side with side of the
> > bus, with your hand ? This is a useful thing to learn as it immediately
> > alerts the driver, if he didn't already know, the passengers, and

anyone
> > on the pavemnet at the time, to the fact that something is going on.

It's
> > a more neutral sound than shouting which can came from any source and
> > immediately denotes anger and unreasonableness.

>
> As a general rule, when people try to kill _me_, I get angry. That seems
> reasonable. Banging on vehicles is a better strategy, but often both
> hands are engaged in "death avoidance" and kicking at things could well
> prove fatal.


....

Yes but if you can at least anticipate what's likely to happen - that
you may well get killed if you don't take avoiding action then
its easier to have something worked out beforehand. If you need
joe public as a witness, its better not to scream and shout as that
marks you at as the unbalanced one. If you bang on the side the bus
joe public will think you've been hit, and you might even get
the driver to shout at you - marking him out as the looney
which is even better.

....
>
> > Don't be reluctant to do this to cars either where necessary, but maybe

not
> > quite so loud or angrily. They're in the wrong, end of story. Normally

a
> > shrug to them afterwards in the near side mirror will do the trick.

After
> > they recover from the shock. Although learning to unhook and wield your
> > Citadel lock within two seconds flat can come in useful too.

>
> I like it. I'm still quite interested in getting a machining company to
> produce some Bar-Endz (see Sheldon Brown).


....

This is purely defensive however. Because antagonising drivers by smashing
their tail lights and then pedalling away in the opposite direction only
means they'll take it out on somebody else. It wouldn't surprise me if
this thread actually involves a case of mistaken identity on the part
of the taxi driver.




Curious


>
> Jon
 
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004, Ricardo <[email protected]> wrote:

> I had room to bail out. Adrenalin rush. Catch up with him at the next
> set of lights and overtake, then stop by his window. Ask him what the
> **** he was playing at. He said, "You shouldn't have been undertaking
> me."


I had almost identical with a caravan once - car overtakes me just
before traffic island, so swerves in while caravan still alongside me
and I bounce off teh side. Half a mile up teh road he leaps out and
has a screaming fit at me querying why teh **** I hit his caravan.
Apparently, I shouldn't have been cycling so fast (uphill, tourer and
panniers with a weekend's luggage, about 12mph I'd guess).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
 
Jon Senior wrote:
He said, "You shouldn't have been undertaking
>>me."

>
>
> And you said? (If it's printable!) That's a simply cracking response.


Sadly my reply wasn't printable. Which, when I'd calmed down, I
regretted, since it undoubtedly wouldn't have helped my case had I
reported him to his superiors. Next time, the calm zen-like trance and
happy fluffy thoughts, I promise.

R.
 
Dr Curious [email protected] opined the following...
> The resultant adrelalin rush presumably meant your judgement was
> impaired. Just thank yourself lucky that missing a turning was the
> worst that happened. Basically whether we happen to like it or not as
> cyclists, buses are always going to be pulling into curbs at the drop
> of a hat. Bus drivers spend half of their days being wound up by
> schoolkids. Being caught on the inside of a bus is generally
> a bad idea to be avoided if at all possible. Also our being on a
> bike costs the bus company a fare.


If this rationale was coming from a bus driver, rather than a cyclist
I'd consider disembowelment as the only option. I appreciate (or hope)
that it's a joke but if a bus driver tries to kill me because I'm not on
his bus then he'd better be a good runner! If you can't drive a vehicle
of that size safely, under the "normal" working conditions, then you
shouldn't drive it. Full Stop.

> Short answer. Because buses are bigger than you are. Longer answer
> you're not. If you were riding defensively you wouldn't even be going
> there in the first place. By anticipating whats likely to happen you
> can in fact squeeze through smaller gaps on either side.


I ride assertively. I consider that "defensive" assumes an attack, and
I'd rather prevent the attack in the first place. (This time, I failed!)
Other than that, I suspect we mean the same thing.

> Its pointless occupying a lane when you're moving so much faster
> than the other traffic.


I'm a fast rider, but I can't maintain 30mph up a hill (Depends on the
hill actually)!

> I'm always overtaking on either side.


I try to avoid undertaking. Passing on the right is less likely to leave
you stuck when the cars next to you turn left.

> That's the point of riding a bike in London anyway. Anyone can go
> faster than the cars nowadays. Or the buses. Other situations
> may be different.


Edinburgh? During the extremes of traffic it is easy to travel faster.
On the flat, on good roads, I can match or beat most of the other
vehicles. Up hills (And we have a few) I tend to lose out unless it's
gridlocked.

> This is purely defensive however. Because antagonising drivers by smashing
> their tail lights and then pedalling away in the opposite direction only
> means they'll take it out on somebody else. It wouldn't surprise me if
> this thread actually involves a case of mistaken identity on the part
> of the taxi driver.


Rest assured that if I ever get close enough to being killed to drive me
to retaliate, Mr Larrington's oft-mentioned methods will be tested. The
only reason that I didn't velcro a screw driver to my frame as a joke,
was the fact that I might just take it seriously (And I don't have
enough decent cycling gear to keep me comfortable while I wash the blood
out!).

Jon
 
"Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dr Curious [email protected] opined the following...
> > The resultant adrelalin rush presumably meant your judgement was
> > impaired. Just thank yourself lucky that missing a turning was the
> > worst that happened. Basically whether we happen to like it or not as
> > cyclists, buses are always going to be pulling into curbs at the drop
> > of a hat. Bus drivers spend half of their days being wound up by
> > schoolkids. Being caught on the inside of a bus is generally
> > a bad idea to be avoided if at all possible. Also our being on a
> > bike costs the bus company a fare.

>
> If this rationale was coming from a bus driver, rather than a cyclist
> I'd consider disembowelment as the only option. I appreciate (or hope)
> that it's a joke but if a bus driver tries to kill me because I'm not on
> his bus then he'd better be a good runner!


Calm down! calm down! Its a case of balancing advantages against
disadvantages.

Adavantages - on a bike you can often make quicker journeys,
as you're not dependant on anybody else, even traffic queues.
It's healthier so you won't have to wait in doctors surgeries,
you can do all your own maintainance - on a normal bike anyway -
so you're not dependant on anybody else - your'e riding a design
classic - if the frame was built pre 1980 ish anyway so long as
it isnt maybe a Jack Taylor, a Hetchins, or a Gate etc - you're
using one of the most efficient machines ever designed except
for...a recuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurgggggggggggh
h
hhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmb....

Disadvantages. Some bus drivers and motorists are always going
to regard you as an inconvenience no matter what you do. And in a
game of chicken you're always going to come off second best.
So live with it. Nobody can have everything.

....

If you can't drive a vehicle
> of that size safely, under the "normal" working conditions, then you
> shouldn't drive it. Full Stop.


....

Sure thing. If you can't run the country you shouldn't be a
politician, if you don't know about insurance you shouldn't
work in a call centre, if you can't be polite to the public
you shouldn't work in a bike shop. You really should start
your own political party you know.

If you paid the sort of wages necessary to attract the sort of
paragons the job undoubtedly requires, you'd presumably have to pay
a far higher wage. Which means fares would have to rise, which would
drive more cars on the road. Either that or subsidies would have
to increase which would mean higher Council Tax Bills for everyone
including cyclists. Its also probably the case that agressive bus
drivers are better at keeping to timetables which is all the
BusCos are primarily interested in. As it enables them to run a
tighter operation.

....
>
> > Short answer. Because buses are bigger than you are. Longer answer
> > you're not. If you were riding defensively you wouldn't even be going
> > there in the first place. By anticipating whats likely to happen you
> > can in fact squeeze through smaller gaps on either side.

>
> I ride assertively. I consider that "defensive" assumes an attack, and
> I'd rather prevent the attack in the first place. (This time, I failed!)
> Other than that, I suspect we mean the same thing.
>
> > Its pointless occupying a lane when you're moving so much faster
> > than the other traffic.

>
> I'm a fast rider, but I can't maintain 30mph up a hill (Depends on the
> hill actually)!


....

But if the other traffic was almost stationary there'd be no need
to be doing 30 mph anyway. Also with a properly planned route
you should only be encountering buses some of the time in any case.
If there are particularly tricky strets with lots of bus stops
it might be an idea to try find an alternative route for that
particular section.

....


....

>
> > I'm always overtaking on either side.

>
> I try to avoid undertaking. Passing on the right is less likely to leave
> you stuck when the cars next to you turn left.
>
> > That's the point of riding a bike in London anyway. Anyone can go
> > faster than the cars nowadays. Or the buses. Other situations
> > may be different.

>
> Edinburgh? During the extremes of traffic it is easy to travel faster.
> On the flat, on good roads, I can match or beat most of the other
> vehicles. Up hills (And we have a few) I tend to lose out unless it's
> gridlocked.
>
> > This is purely defensive however. Because antagonising drivers by

smashing
> > their tail lights and then pedalling away in the opposite direction

only
> > means they'll take it out on somebody else. It wouldn't surprise me if
> > this thread actually involves a case of mistaken identity on the part
> > of the taxi driver.

>
> Rest assured that if I ever get close enough to being killed to drive me
> to retaliate, Mr Larrington's oft-mentioned methods will be tested.


....

I know we've all got our problems with Merkans but you really should
see some NYC bike messengers at work, taking tows in fast moving
traffic etc. You'd hang your head in shame, you really would.
They're not all chaps either, actually.

....

> The
> only reason that I didn't velcro a screw driver to my frame as a joke,
> was the fact that I might just take it seriously (And I don't have
> enough decent cycling gear to keep me comfortable while I wash the blood
> out!).


....

That's a guarenteed custodial sentence. You wouldn't like prison
believe me. That's not from direct experience, more indirect.

Calm down! Calm down!




Curious

>
> Jon
 
Dr Curious wrote:

> Also our being on a bike costs the bus
> company a fare.


And how, pray, do you arrive at /that/ outlandish conclusion?

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 09:41:31 +0100, Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dr Curious wrote:
>
>> Also our being on a bike costs the bus
>> company a fare.

>
> And how, pray, do you arrive at /that/ outlandish conclusion?


Well, we all know that cyclists can't afford cars, don't we?

Colin