LOOK HSC w/27mm crown race seat AGH!

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Edward A Nilges, Jun 25, 2003.

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  1. Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was designed
    to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter. My LBS wanted to mill it down, but LOOK told them
    that would be a bad idea. What can I do besides install the lower half of an $8 Tange-Seiki threaded
    headset and keep the upper half of the Chris King NoThreadSet I already have? The lower bearing
    itself doesn't even fit over the seat.

    From some archived posts I gather that the first HSC fork included its own headset made by YST, but
    the only part that was supposed to be required and unique to the fork was the compression cap,
    according to those same threads.

    If it helps, the serial number on the fork is 7013FH02, the legs have the letters "LOOK" sitting on
    top of each other, and the only other marks are a "MADE IN FRANCE" sticker just above the accursed
    crown race seat and a small warning or compliance sticker in French that was at the top of the left
    leg, now removed, leaving a clearcoat-less matte patch.

    Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    suggestions are most welcome.

    Thanks, Ed
     
    Tags:


  2. Jon Bond

    Jon Bond Guest

    "Edward A Nilges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was
    > designed to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter. My LBS wanted to mill it down, but LOOK
    > told them that would be a bad idea. What can I do besides install the lower half of an $8
    > Tange-Seiki threaded headset and keep the upper half of the Chris King NoThreadSet I already have?
    > The lower bearing itself doesn't even fit over the seat.
    >
    > From some archived posts I gather that the first HSC fork included its own headset made by YST,
    > but the only part that was supposed to be required and unique to the fork was the compression cap,
    > according to those same threads.
    >
    > If it helps, the serial number on the fork is 7013FH02, the legs have the letters "LOOK" sitting
    > on top of each other, and the only other marks are a "MADE IN FRANCE" sticker just above the
    > accursed crown race seat and a small warning or compliance sticker in French that was at the top
    > of the left leg, now removed, leaving a clearcoat-less matte patch.
    >
    > Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > suggestions are most welcome.
    >
    > Thanks, Ed

    Contact Chris King, they might be able to help you out. Here's a blurb from their webpage (sorry if
    it turns everything HTML, stupid outlook...):
    -------------------
    Fork Preparation: Reaming and facing of the fork may be necessary, but is not critical unless it is
    grossly out of parallel or oversize. The crown race face and seat should be square and parallel to
    the steerer tube and its outer diameter should not exceed .1mm larger than the inner diameter of the
    base plate. Most available reamers/facers are adequate for these tolerances. Clean to remove any
    chips, shavings, and/or cutting oil. The proper press fit should be with no more than .1mm (.004")
    of interference. See chart below for correct crown race seat size.

    Base Plate Seat O.D. 1" Standard 26.5mm 1" BMX 26.5mm 1-1/8" 30.1mm 1-1/4" 33.1mm

    Note: Do not attempt to install a baseplate that does not press properly. Centerpunching, knurling,
    and/or the application of LocTite or similar products is not recommended as the load forces
    will exceed the holding power of any of these treatments and eventually allow the baseplate to
    move. This movement will seemingly create a loose headset effect. Baseplates with undersized
    bores are available in incremented sizes for proper fit.

    ------------------------------

    They might be able to help you out.

    Jon Bond
     
  3. On 25 Jun 2003 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] (Edward A Nilges) wrote:

    >Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    >suggestions are most welcome.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/head.html#jis

    Didn't think those ever came in threadless, or are you thinking of using a threadless headset in a
    threaded steerer? I'd imagine clamping the stem on a steerer with threads cut into it would be
    difficult.

    Jasper
     
  4. Dianne_1234

    Dianne_1234 Guest

    [email protected] (Edward A Nilges) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was
    > designed to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter. My LBS wanted to mill it down, but LOOK
    > told them that would be a bad idea. What can I do besides install the lower half of an $8
    > Tange-Seiki threaded headset and keep the upper half of the Chris King NoThreadSet I already have?
    > The lower bearing itself doesn't even fit over the seat.
    >
    > From some archived posts I gather that the first HSC fork included its own headset made by YST,
    > but the only part that was supposed to be required and unique to the fork was the compression cap,
    > according to those same threads.
    >
    > If it helps, the serial number on the fork is 7013FH02, the legs have the letters "LOOK" sitting
    > on top of each other, and the only other marks are a "MADE IN FRANCE" sticker just above the
    > accursed crown race seat and a small warning or compliance sticker in French that was at the top
    > of the left leg, now removed, leaving a clearcoat-less matte patch.
    >
    > Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > suggestions are most welcome.
    >
    > Thanks, Ed

    A machinist friend of mine had one of those. He split the difference: he milled half off the fork,
    and turned half off the ID of a 26.4 crown race.

    But I think he's nuts. Milling a carbon fork!!!!

    Just install the lower half of the $8 headset. http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.13.html
     
  5. Nick Payne

    Nick Payne Guest

    Get a YST threadless headset, which has the 27mm crown race. Lower bearing is roller, upper is
    cup and cone:

    http://www.deanwoods.com.au/store/category84_1.htm

    Nick

    "Edward A Nilges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was
    > designed to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter. My LBS wanted to mill it down, but LOOK
    > told them that would be a bad idea. What can I do besides install the lower half of an $8
    > Tange-Seiki threaded headset and keep the upper half of the Chris King NoThreadSet I already have?
    > The lower bearing itself doesn't even fit over the seat.
    >
    > From some archived posts I gather that the first HSC fork included its own headset made by YST,
    > but the only part that was supposed to be required and unique to the fork was the compression cap,
    > according to those same threads.
    >
    > If it helps, the serial number on the fork is 7013FH02, the legs have the letters "LOOK" sitting
    > on top of each other, and the only other marks are a "MADE IN FRANCE" sticker just above the
    > accursed crown race seat and a small warning or compliance sticker in French that was at the top
    > of the left leg, now removed, leaving a clearcoat-less matte patch.
    >
    > Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > suggestions are most welcome.
    >
    > Thanks, Ed
     
  6. Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 25 Jun 2003 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] (Edward A Nilges) wrote:
    >
    > >Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > >suggestions are most welcome.
    >
    > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/head.html#jis
    >
    > Didn't think those ever came in threadless, or are you thinking of using a threadless headset in a
    > threaded steerer?

    No, just the opposite. The HSC is an all-carbon threadless fork, but the only headsets with a 27mm
    crown race I've been able to find are for threaded steerers (and they're very cheap). So what I was
    thinking of doing was using the top bearing and plate from the Chris King threadless I have, and the
    crown race and bottom bearing from the cheap threaded model. Besides the general heinousness of such
    a compromise (the bottom bearing takes more abuse), the only issue I think I might run into is
    differing preload requirements between the top and bottom bearings.

    So it looks like I'd be using the bottom half of the Tange-Seiki Levin, which is $25 and steel,
    unless I get a lead on the original (YST? I heard it was pretty cheap as well) headset that must
    have been included, or someone convinces me it'd be safe to mill that part of the fork. I'd really
    like to hear that it is.

    Ed
     
  7. Phil Brown

    Phil Brown Guest

    >Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was
    >designed to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter.

    It's just a JIS crown race seat. It could be milled down without a problem, no matter what Look
    says. Any competant shop can do it and it should be fast and inexpensive-$20 or so. Phil Brown
     
  8. On 26 Jun 2003 06:53:35 -0700, [email protected] (Edward A Nilges) wrote:

    >No, just the opposite. The HSC is an all-carbon threadless fork, but the only headsets with a 27mm
    >crown race I've been able to find are for threaded steerers (and they're very cheap). So what I was
    >thinking of doing was using the top bearing and plate from the Chris King threadless I have, and
    >the crown race and bottom bearing from the cheap threaded model. Besides the general heinousness of
    >such a compromise (the bottom bearing takes more abuse), the only issue I think I might run into is
    >differing preload requirements between the top and bottom bearings.

    If I were you, I'd just save the King or sell it on and use both parts of whatever headset you buy.
    But the real issue here is that you've got a normal ISO head tube with a JIS crown race. A JIS type
    headset with a 27 mm fork race will also have 30.0 mm headtube cups, as opposed to 30.2. They'd be
    loose in the headtube. I think what you might need is the fork race from a JIS headset and a head
    race and upper bearing from an ISO headset.

    http://www.woodmancomponents.com/index.html These people make a threadless 1" headset in both JIS
    and ISO (Saturn Race). Mail them and see if if you can get one that's mixed, mostly ISO but with a
    JIS fork race. They appear to be decent quality, and are definitely not cheap. Not quite Chris King
    expensive, though.

    Jasper
     
  9. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Edward A Nilges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Can anyone help me? I bought this fork on eBay awhile back and it either was a fluke or was
    > designed to accept a crown race of 27mm inner diameter. My LBS wanted to mill it down, but LOOK
    > told them that would be a bad idea. What can I do besides install the lower half of an $8
    > Tange-Seiki threaded headset and keep the upper half of the Chris King NoThreadSet I already have?
    > The lower bearing itself doesn't even fit over the seat.
    >
    > From some archived posts I gather that the first HSC fork included its own headset made by YST,
    > but the only part that was supposed to be required and unique to the fork was the compression cap,
    > according to those same threads.
    >
    > If it helps, the serial number on the fork is 7013FH02, the legs have the letters "LOOK" sitting
    > on top of each other, and the only other marks are a "MADE IN FRANCE" sticker just above the
    > accursed crown race seat and a small warning or compliance sticker in French that was at the top
    > of the left leg, now removed, leaving a clearcoat-less matte patch.
    >
    > Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > suggestions are most welcome.

    There was a French standard 27.1 crown race diameter besides the JIS format so it is not a
    completely unknown size.

    Consult with someone experienced in machining bicycle frames and forks. Get it milled
    properly to 26.5.

    The clearance for an aluminum race seat is different from a steel one. Most tool holders will not
    run over that column either.
     
  10. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    26.4. but you knew that
     
  11. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Edward A Nilges" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > On 25 Jun 2003 13:35:01 -0700, [email protected] (Edward A Nilges)
    wrote:
    > >
    > > >Help keep a classic piece of space-age polymers on the road! Milling techniques or headset
    > > >suggestions are most welcome.
    > >
    > > http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/head.html#jis
    > >
    > > Didn't think those ever came in threadless, or are you thinking of using
    a
    > > threadless headset in a threaded steerer?
    >
    > No, just the opposite. The HSC is an all-carbon threadless fork, but the only headsets with a 27mm
    > crown race I've been able to find are for threaded steerers (and they're very cheap). So what I
    > was thinking of doing was using the top bearing and plate from the Chris King threadless I have,
    > and the crown race and bottom bearing from the cheap threaded model. Besides the general
    > heinousness of such a compromise (the bottom bearing takes more abuse), the only issue I think I
    > might run into is differing preload requirements between the top and bottom bearings.
    >
    > So it looks like I'd be using the bottom half of the Tange-Seiki Levin, which is $25 and steel,
    > unless I get a lead on the original (YST? I heard it was pretty cheap as well) headset that must
    > have been included, or someone convinces me it'd be safe to mill that part of the fork. I'd really
    > like to hear that it is.
    >
    > Ed

    I recommended a competent machinist but you indicate this is one of the no-metal-seat designs. Your
    plan is better as carbon shouldn't be cut. The Tange Levin is first-rate and there are also plenty
    of n.o.s. Suntour Superbe Pro readily available in JIS too.
     
  12. Dianne_1234

    Dianne_1234 Guest

    DO NOT MILL THIS FORK!!

    Sorry for shouting, but the fork is 100% carbon fiber. Reducing the crown seat diameter requires
    cutting structural carbon fibers. This WILL weaken the fork.

    Others may think the fork is excessively strong, and are willing to risk it, but how would they
    know? And consider the consequences if they're wrong!

    Search and find whatever mix of head set parts works, but don't mill the carbon fiber crown seat!
     
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