Looking for advice - Cannondale models



crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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So, I test rode a couple of models tonight.

1. 2009 Six carbon 5. Fast climbing, steady at all times during my brief ride. Very fun, lively, and seemed to fit quite well. Smooth ride. More money than I can spend.
2. 2009 synapse5. A little more sluggish climbing, not as smooth. Did not fit comfortably like the six carbon 5 did and seemed to stretch me out.
3. No caad9 in my size in stock. (so they had me try the six carbon 5 so I could see somewhat of how a caad9 would respond.)

The shop also suggested checking into a 2009 six-5 with the carbon stays and said the smoothness of its ride should be somewhere between the synapse and the six carbon 5, and yet the responsiveness should be like a caad9. Sort of a cross between full carbon and caad9.

I notice that this six-5 is not offered for 2010 and I wonder if it has not been a good seller or other problems. Shop said I'd still get a full warranty, but I'm not sure whether to check into it or wait for 2010 caad's to arrive.

Your thoughts?
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
Your thoughts?
Cannondale designs & makes great bikes ...

BUT, it is probably the LAST brand of bikes 'I' would select from for purchase because there is just too much proprietary "stuff" going on.

If you must ask for someone else's opinion, then just get the one that has the all-alloy frame ...

OR, go back and test the various models on the same course BUT WITH THE VERY SAME WHEELS & tire inflation and then let your wallet be your guide.
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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Thank you for your reply.

The shop is getting in a 2010 caad and I will test ride it back-to-back against their synapse. The six-5 is out of the question since they said since cannondale is no longer carrying it then if they ordered it and I did not like it I'd be stuck and they would not be able to sell it on their floor ( I kinda agree).

I must ask why you feel there is too much proprietary stuff going on. The components are typical groupsets and the only other thing would be the stem/handlebars/seatpost type of parts...and they are cheap to buy replacements for. As far as wheels go, I am not excited about them, and so I can just keep them as a second set or buy an awesome set elsewhere.

I really don't quite understand your perspective. If the ride/frame is acceptable on any mfgr bike line, then the only other option is the component group. The frame is the most important detail in my book.

Please elaborate as I am not quite sure why you stated what you did.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
The shop is getting in a 2010 caad and I will test ride it back-to-back against their synapse. The six-5 is out of the question since they said since cannondale is no longer carrying it then if they ordered it and I did not like it I'd be stuck and they would not be able to sell it on their floor ( I kinda agree).

I must ask why you feel there is too much proprietary stuff going on. The components are typical groupsets and the only other thing would be the stem/handlebars/seatpost type of parts...and they are cheap to buy replacements for. As far as wheels go, I am not excited about them, and so I can just keep them as a second set or buy an awesome set elsewhere.

I really don't quite understand your perspective. If the ride/frame is acceptable on any mfgr bike line, then the only other option is the component group. The frame is the most important detail in my book.

Please elaborate as I am not quite sure why you stated what you did.
Okay, With the presumption that the materials of a frame are properly spec'd & the frame is well constructed, I'm in the distinct minority who believes that the most significant aspect of the frame is the geometry ... more so, the head tube angle + fork (where the fork is probably more important than the frame if all other things/(angles) are the same).

Cannondale likes to be on the cutting edge in design ... that's probably great if you're a sponsored rider -- some of their designs have been, or are, being adapted (BB30 comes to mind) on a limited basis.

Replacement parts are readily available, now, but may be come scarce in the future.

Look at Cannondale's Headshok ... I guess it's still around. Is it perfect? Are there (m)any options if-and-when you need to do maintenance beyond a "stock" replacement?

Does it matter OR is the bike frame, itself, merely something else that will be changed in a few years?

FWIW. I have to tell you that my back-to-back comparison (about a half-dozen years ago) of a mid-range steel frame with a high-zoot carbon fiber frame whose main triangles are identical revealed that there was no difference in the way the two bikes rode on rough asphalt AND moderately high speed descents. No Crits for me, so maybe that's where one would notice the difference.

Before the back-to-back comparison of the two different frames (same level of components, BTW), I had changed the steel fork on the steel frame (Peugeot PH501) with a Kestrel carbon fiber fork (a fairly highly regarded CF fork). There was NO difference in the ride ... and, the only thing I can say that I noticed happening was the bike was about a pound lighter & my wallet was also lighter!

The stays on the two bikes are every so slightly different in length, so that either speaks well for the carbon fiber OR it just means my butt isn't as sensitive as my hands to road vibrations.

Head tube angle -- important.

Fork -- important.

Frame geometry -- important.

Frame material -- not important IF the frame is properly engineered.

Wheels -- important, but it seems that opinions vary as to what characteristics makes a good wheel.

Shifters/etc. -- depends on where you are riding, IMO.

If you really think that the frame is the most important part of a bike, then you should be willing to pony up for a Pinarello Prince, a Pegoretti Big Bertha, or a few other framesets depending on your (presumably, aggressive [i.e., race oriented]) riding style ...

Having ridden a wide range of frames, if the geometry is the same (more so, the head tube angle since the seat tube only affects the fore-aft fit) I would now say the road frame choice is mostly for STYLE POINTS and/or WEIGHT ... BOTH are legitimate & serious considerations which can-AND-should be factored into the buying decision.
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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I agree with you. When I say "frame" I mean how it rides and that is entirely (or almost depending upon one's perspective) of geometry.

However, the full carbon six was noticeably smoother than the synapse that I tried, and unless it was due to the wheels, then it goes against the grain of the geometry perspective because the synapse has more relaxed geometry. Relaxed should mean "smoother", and that was not the case.

I am coming from a 23.5" steel 1985 erra ross signature by Tom Kellogg that was never really "fitted" to me. I have a 13-21 corncob freewheel and wolber wheels that I put on my 45/52 chainrings and I can power this thing 85-110rpm's but it does not, and will not, perform to the way I want - nor was it intended to. It's the only thing I could afford back then and for quite some time could not justify spending considerable monies on a new bike.

While I do not race, my training rides are all about being fast and a flexy frame or harsh ride is not what I want. I want performance to meet my demand. Although there are much stronger riders, my new bike must not drag itself up hills or beat me up on the roads. I weigh 195 pounds, stand up whenever possible on hills, and have never walked a hill.

While I am open to brands, brand reputation is important. However, frame craftsmanship and durability is moreso. That is one reason I am staying away from carbon (for the most part).
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
I agree with you. When I say "frame" I mean how it rides and that is entirely (or almost depending upon one's perspective) of geometry.

However, the full carbon six was noticeably smoother than the synapse that I tried, and unless it was due to the wheels, then it goes against the grain of the geometry perspective because the synapse has more relaxed geometry. Relaxed should mean "smoother", and that was not the case.

I am coming from a 23.5" steel 1985 erra ross signature by Tom Kellogg that was never really "fitted" to me. I have a 13-21 corncob freewheel and wolber wheels that I put on my 45/52 chainrings and I can power this thing 85-110rpm's but it does not, and will not, perform to the way I want - nor was it intended to. It's the only thing I could afford back then and for quite some time could not justify spending considerable monies on a new bike.

While I do not race, my training rides are all about being fast and a flexy frame or harsh ride is not what I want. I want performance to meet my demand. Although there are much stronger riders, my new bike must not drag itself up hills or beat me up on the roads. I weigh 195 pounds, stand up whenever possible on hills, and have never walked a hill.

While I am open to brands, brand reputation is important. However, frame craftsmanship and durability is moreso. That is one reason I am staying away from carbon (for the most part).
I think that if you were to respace the rear triangle to 130mm & change out the wheels that you might acheive 90% of what you are looking for.

Respacing a steel frame from 126mm to 135mm can be a DIY endeavor ... I've done it several times (including the Peugeot frame) ... use NOTHING other than your own upper body strength ... pull on the dropouts with whatever you estimate 30 lbs. of force would be ... measure ... repeat until you achieve 130mm spacing. Realign the rear derailleur hanger so that it is parallel with the frame's centerline by sandwiching the dropout between two small scraps of plywood & tweak it with a pipe wrench OR bring it to your LBS to have them realign it (make sure they have done it before!) -- use LESS force, initially, so you can get a sense of how malleable the stays & dropouts are! BOTH dropouts should be aligned.

Unless your current wheels have some Campy NR hubs, I recommend that you have a pair of wheels laced up with some DT 240 (or, older HUGI 240) or 340 hubs. Shimano & Campy hubs are good, too!

In the past I have frequently recommended AMBROSIO rims -- the COLNAGO clinchers were made by Ambrosio, so I presume they still are (i.e., Ambrosio Excellence ... 622-14 is my recollection)if you can't find a pair. BUT, I'm not as concerned with the rims, now, as I used to be; and, many of my wheels have various MAVIC rims (e.g., MA40, REFLEX, OPEN PRO, and the lowly-by-comparison CXP21) amongst others.

Tom Kellogg 'Signature' frame ... nice!

Do you know the head tube angle? 1985 is right on the trailing timeframe edge of when too many Italian road frames were built with 74º head tube angles ... hopefully, Kellogg wasn't adversely influenced by that trend & hopefully your frame has a 73º head tube angle.

Which part of the frame doesn't fit you the way you want ... I'm guessing you're about 6'1" or taller ... is that right? Or, are you shorter?

How long is the frame's top tube?

BTW. The attached pic is my mid-80s OLMO which I completely re-worked/("updated") several years ago (I changed the fork BEFORE I made my comparative tests).

I needed to respace the dropouts to 130mm.

I'm about to change the handlebars back to a pair of vintage Cinelli bars that I have because I finally decided that I don't really like the bend of the drops on the Deda MAGIC bars that are seen in the picture + I'm going to make some other changes for PURELY COSMETIC reasons!!
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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Ummm...not really sure that just changing the wheels/dropouts would solve my "dilemma" since the bb flex is too annoying and although Sheldon Brown says that the flex of bb really doesn't hinder forward thrust significantly, I personally dislike it. The frame is touring geometry, originally came w/ a triple that I changed bb and took off inner granny ring and now have the 45/50 drivetrain. Its def a touring design, and because of that it is less responsive and less stable. I'd rather not put into this bike and get out of it less than desirable results. It is fine for what it is intended for, but not for my riding style on my training rides.

I drive a nissan maxima and have driven a lincoln continental. I want my bike to be like my car -- responsive/fast/and yet comfortable -- not like the ride of a continental that I equate to my Ross!! :)

Question: If want to convert a 105 compact to a double, will the bb be the same and the only swap would be the cranks? I can get a new 105dbl for $100 and should I need to swap cranks, it would be a cheap route. My research says the bb's are the same. Seems like the only diff would be inner ring so if a larger ring would fit the compact that would be TONS cheaper than a new crankset just to get a larger inner ring.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
Ummm...not really sure that just changing the wheels/dropouts would solve my "dilemma" since the bb flex is too annoying and although Sheldon Brown says that the flex of bb really doesn't hinder forward thrust significantly, I personally dislike it. The frame is touring geometry, originally came w/ a triple that I changed bb and took off inner granny ring and now have the 45/50 drivetrain. Its def a touring design, and because of that it is less responsive and less stable. I'd rather not put into this bike and get out of it less than desirable results. It is fine for what it is intended for, but not for my riding style on my training rides.

Question: If want to convert a 105 compact to a double, will the bb be the same and the only swap would be the cranks? I can get a new 105dbl for $100 and should I need to swap cranks, it would be a cheap route. My research says the bb's are the same. Seems like the only diff would be inner ring so if a larger ring would fit the compact that would be TONS cheaper than a new crankset just to get a larger inner ring.
The Shimano Hollowtech II BB is the dimensionally "same" for all the ROAD cranks ... I vaguely remember someone suggesting that only the anodized finish on the cups is different between the DA cups & the 105 cups ...

True, or not? I don't know.

I don't know the largest size chainring that Shimano makes with a 110BCD. There are certainly chainrings with 52t-or-more made by other manufacturers which have a 110BCD, but the ramping-and-pinning will not be as good as on an Ultegra or DA chainring ... but, probably no worse than the 105's "ramping"/(bulges) UNLESS you get an older un-ramped ring.

BTW. Unless you have 36 spoke wheels which are properly tensioned, I think you should try to borrow a pair (well, at least the rear wheel) to see if that has any effect on your perceived bottom bracket flex ...

I've heard other people make the same remark, and I'm more inclined to believe it is often (but, not always) the wheels flexing laterally than the BB flexing.

My Peugeot would have been classified as a "fast touring" bike & its stays are definitely longer than on a current road bike; but, I can't perceive a difference in a frame with shorter stays OTHER THAN how well the roughness of the road surface is dampened ... maybe, I'm just not jumping on the pedals enough!
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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I believe I have 32h wheels, but proper tensioning is needed. Wheels just might make a diff, but my "problem" is that since I know my bike does not fit me well, in order to change that I'd have:

1. Fit fee at lbs: ~$100
2. Wheels: ~$300 (I wouldn't go too cheap) Current eyelets are looking pretty bad and rims should really be replaced.
3. Prob new stem and/or bars: ~ $75-100 just guessing here
4. Current seat stinks. $50-$100.

That adds to $500+ in my opinion and then I'd not get the new bike that I really want! Hehe. Plus, if I wanted to sell it later I'd really have to modify it since most people wouldn't want a mix/match bike that mine is and would continue to be.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
I believe I have 32h wheels, but proper tensioning is needed. Wheels just might make a diff, but my "problem" is that since I know my bike does not fit me well, in order to change that I'd have:

1. Fit fee at lbs: ~$100
2. Wheels: ~$300 (I wouldn't go too cheap) Current eyelets are looking pretty bad and rims should really be replaced.
3. Prob new stem and/or bars: ~ $75-100 just guessing here
4. Current seat stinks. $50-$100.

That adds to $500+ in my opinion and then I'd not get the new bike that I really want! Hehe. Plus, if I wanted to sell it later I'd really have to modify it since most people wouldn't want a mix/match bike that mine is and would continue to be.
FYI. Tom Kellogg is around (MERLIN Bicycles) and he would probably be willing to redo the chainstays if you really think they are too long ...

OR, you can have Cyclart redo the stays ...

Figure on $200+ in either case ... maybe less, maybe more. PAINT EXTRA.

___​

A new wheelset will travel with you from bike-to-bike ... ditto for your saddle -- the "new" saddle is something you would probably need to buy even if you bought one of the Cannondales UNLESS the particular bike has THE saddle you use, or were planning on using.

So-called professional frame fitting is over-rated, IMO, for most riders ... two different fitters might come up with two slightly different configurations ... three different fitters might set you up three different ways.

I was talking to someone a few days ago who is looking for a 'new' saddle because he is finally admitting that after a half-dozen years the Selle Italia Flite saddle he uses isn't (hasn't been) comfortable for him -- he chose it because it LOOKED right.

In addition to loaning him a San Marco Concor Lite saddle that I'm not using so he could test it, I suggested that he lower his current sadldle by between a 1/16" & 1/4" DESPITE THE FACT that he had "Bob" fit him six years ago.

So, just how tall are you?

How long is your stem?

How wide are your handlebars?

What is the top tube length?

What is the length of your crankarms?

Are you riding on mostly "flat" OR rolling terrain OR in the mountains?

Just what don't you like about the fit?

Post a pic of the bike as it is currently set up so I can get a better sense of whether it is something that can be adjusted or if it really is too big -- if you're 5'9" or shorter then it may be too big, but if you're 6'1" or taller, it's probably sized closer to right-than-wrong.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
That adds to $500+ in my opinion and then I'd not get the new bike that I really want!
BTW. The bike you "really want" will probably be $500 less expensive one year from now ... less, in two years ... etc.
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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So, just how tall are you? 6'1 1/2"; 36" inseam; also wear a 36-37" sleeve length on dress shirts if that helps at all.

How long is your stem? don't know.

How wide are your handlebars? don't know, but narrower than the cannondales & allez that I tried

What is the top tube length? don't know.

What is the length of your crankarms? 170mm

Are you riding on mostly "flat" OR rolling terrain OR in the mountains? mostly flat, incorporating hills when possible.

Just what don't you like about the fit? feels too stretched, have had hand numbness & issues w/ the male package that comes/goes if not out of saddle enough (hills help). Adjusted fore/aft/height/angle/stem height and that has helped a bit - one of them being knee discomfort which is almost all gone except for a bit in one of them.

I'm not following your wheelset statement because modern 9/10spds are a big change from my 6sp suntour freewheel on my shimano 600 hub of 25yrs ago. Then you have to change the chain and maybe cranks in order for things to work right. Not sure. Remember, I'm coming from NEVER frequenting bike shops for years and now in 2009 I step into a shop for the first time in ages and tons of design changes have occurred and I'd rather not get nickeled and dimed doing incremental changes and wind up spending more than just buying a new bike a being done w/ it.

Yes, I agree that a new bike will depreciate, but considering I kept my current one for 25yrs, I don't plan on getting rid of any new one in a short timeframe. I dont turn over bikes like some of these guys do. I buy to keep; not to race/crash/buy a new one.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
So, just how tall are you? 6'1 1/2"; 36" inseam; also wear a 36-37" sleeve length on dress shirts if that helps at all.

How long is your stem? don't know.

How wide are your handlebars? don't know, but narrower than the cannondales & allez that I tried

What is the top tube length? don't know.

What is the length of your crankarms? 170mm

Are you riding on mostly "flat" OR rolling terrain OR in the mountains? mostly flat, incorporating hills when possible.

Just what don't you like about the fit? feels too stretched, have had hand numbness & issues w/ the male package that comes/goes if not out of saddle enough (hills help). Adjusted fore/aft/height/angle/stem height and that has helped a bit - one of them being knee discomfort which is almost all gone except for a bit in one of them.

I'm not following your wheelset statement because modern 9/10spds are a big change from my 6sp suntour freewheel on my shimano 600 hub of 25yrs ago. Then you have to change the chain and maybe cranks in order for things to work right. Not sure. Remember, I'm coming from NEVER frequenting bike shops for years and now in 2009 I step into a shop for the first time in ages and tons of design changes have occurred and I'd rather not get nickeled and dimed doing incremental changes and wind up spending more than just buying a new bike a being done w/ it.

Yes, I agree that a new bike will depreciate, but considering I kept my current one for 25yrs, I don't plan on getting rid of any new one in a short timeframe. I dont turn over bikes like some of these guys do. I buy to keep; not to race/crash/buy a new one.
AND, that is precisely why you should look at something other than a Cannondale ...all that proprietary "stuff" can be a problem in the future.

New saddle -- probably, yes. Before your NEXT ride, set the rails so they are parallel to the ground ... and lower the saddle by an 1/8" ... sit as far back on the saddle as is comfortable.

New crank length -- yes ... consider 175mm cranks.

You can set up a new set of wheels with an 8-speed cassette ... 8-speed cog spacing is similar to 7-speed ccog spacing ... and, not that different from 6-speed cog spacing; so, you can continue to use your downtube shifters if you want to. Just get a new, 8-speed Shimano chain.

Consider posting a pic because, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

BTW. Regardless whether or not you buy a Cannondale or any other bike, it really behooves you to dial-in your fit while you have your old bike ... for the price of a frame fit, you can buy a quill adapter + a lot of stems of varying lengths and figure out what works for you.

You've got to measure your current bike so you can better gauge the new bikes you are looking at.
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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I still don't track you on those proprietary issues w/ cannondale. Unless there's something w/ the bb or forks, I see no issues at all since everything else is stock components. But, since the cranks are shimano, I doubt there'd be any future issues there that would not be encountered on any other brand.

Do you /have you ridden /ride a cannondale? You seem to be pretty bent against them. I am open to other brands, but I must admit I am partial to their USA production and that does provide kudos in my book since I am a US resident.

The only thing I have ever read online about any issues w/ cannondale is that some complain of the "harshness". And yet, many will say that the harshness is hogwash and it beats the ride on tons of other brands and even many steel bikes some have owned for years. This is all accomplished by their alloy frame.

Now, I cannot come to those same conclusions as of yet, and do realize that the ride depends upon geometry, but I cannot walk away from these bikes because I have read next to zero negative news on them.

I might try a couple other brands here in the next few days before the 2010caad comes in for me to try...which will be in about a week.

The hardest thing is most shops carry only 2 brands and to be able to ride more than these 2 brands back to back is not possible because of having to go to various shops. Therefore, perception changes rapidly and hinders a solid conclusion. I have yet to figure out how to get around that issue.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
I still don't track you on those proprietary issues w/ cannondale. Unless there's something w/ the bb or forks, I see no issues at all since everything else is stock components. But, since the cranks are shimano, I doubt there'd be any future issues there that would not be encountered on any other brand.

Do you /have you ridden /ride a cannondale? You seem to be pretty bent against them. I am open to other brands, but I must admit I am partial to their USA production and that does provide kudos in my book since I am a US resident.

The only thing I have ever read online about any issues w/ cannondale is that some complain of the "harshness". And yet, many will say that the harshness is hogwash and it beats the ride on tons of other brands and even many steel bikes some have owned for years. This is all accomplished by their alloy frame.

Now, I cannot come to those same conclusions as of yet, and do realize that the ride depends upon geometry, but I cannot walk away from these bikes because I have read next to zero negative news on them.

I might try a couple other brands here in the next few days before the 2010caad comes in for me to try...which will be in about a week.

The hardest thing is most shops carry only 2 brands and to be able to ride more than these 2 brands back to back is not possible because of having to go to various shops. Therefore, perception changes rapidly and hinders a solid conclusion. I have yet to figure out how to get around that issue.
Well, your mind is clearly made up, already ...

You can't answer the simple question about your current bike that I asked ...

Without intending to sound harsh, let me say that it's easier to be ignorant about your next bike if you don't know anything about your current bike.

So, in 5, 10, 15, 20, or 25 years, you may either celebrate the fact that you didn't listen to me OR you may eventually say to yourself 'WTF. I should have listened to that guy on the Forum" when the shop tells you that it either can't get the replacement part OR it will cost N-times more than a typical off-the-shelf replacement part. If the latter ever transpires, remember the company name PROBLEM SOLVERS ... they've made a business out of making adapters to allow normal parts fit in the uniquely dimensioned frames.

Honestly, good luck with whichever bike you choose because as I said in my first posting in this particular thread --

Cannondale designs & makes great bikes ...
 

crankitfast

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Aug 24, 2008
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alfeng said:
Well, your mind is clearly made up, already ...

You can't answer the simple question about your current bike that I asked ...

Without intending to sound harsh, let me say that it's easier to be ignorant about your next bike if you don't know anything about your current bike.

So, in 5, 10, 15, 20, or 25 years, you may either celebrate the fact that you didn't listen to me OR you may eventually say to yourself 'WTF. I should have listened to that guy on the Forum" when the shop tells you that it either can't get the replacement part OR it will cost N-times more than a typical off-the-shelf replacement part. If the latter ever transpires, remember the company name PROBLEM SOLVERS ... they've made a business out of making adapters to allow normal parts fit in the uniquely dimensioned frames.

Honestly, good luck with whichever bike you choose because as I said in my first posting in this particular thread --


Cannondale designs & makes great bikes ...

I don't doubt your knowledge and experience, but I am not willing to ignore cannondale. Nor have I made up my mind. Nor have I decided against other brands. I will say again that it comes w/ many great reviews, and I truly am amazed at how many have bought other brands only to post online that they wish they had bought cannondale after disappointment w/ their purchase. It is true that some could be the exact opposite, but I want a bike that I am comfortable with.

As I mentioned before, it's US made gives it many leaps ahead of others in my preference list, but should I not like the caad, then other brands quickly move up the list into a more level playing field. Does where the frame is made matter? Yes. We vote w/ our US dollars, and that is what I am focused upon and that is why I am more interested in cannondale over others. I will try it out soon, and should I not like it then, oh well. But should I like it, my money will LIKELY be spent.

I will be checking into what you mentioned about their frames, but I consider them a huge player in the game and in the big scheme of things I don't see any adapters being a huge cost issue. Since any such things would be there already, unless I abuse my bike I would not have to face that issue. And if I did, thousands of others would be in the same boat, and many are far more particular than I am of frame design.

You can't answer the simple question about your current bike that I asked ...
Yes, I can...I just don't have the dimensions written down. Have I measured and checked against new model geometries? Absolutely.

I don't want to come to wrong conclusions, but I am stunned by your near hatred for cannondale, as if you are a non US resident, hate the US, or had a horrible experience with them at some point in your life.

I stand on the words of many riders who have discussed numerous models in this price range, and they ALL say the same thing...."...they are all great bikes....just buy the one that fits you best and you are more comfortable with..."
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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crankitfast said:
I don't doubt your knowledge and experience, but I am not willing to ignore cannondale. Nor have I made up my mind. Nor have I decided against other brands. I will say again that it comes w/ many great reviews, and I truly am amazed at how many have bought other brands only to post online that they wish they had bought cannondale after disappointment w/ their purchase. It is true that some could be the exact opposite, but I want a bike that I am comfortable with.

As I mentioned before, it's US made gives it many leaps ahead of others in my preference list, but should I not like the caad, then other brands quickly move up the list into a more level playing field. Does where the frame is made matter? Yes. We vote w/ our US dollars, and that is what I am focused upon and that is why I am more interested in cannondale over others. I will try it out soon, and should I not like it then, oh well. But should I like it, my money will LIKELY be spent.

I will be checking into what you mentioned about their frames, but I consider them a huge player in the game and in the big scheme of things I don't see any adapters being a huge cost issue. Since any such things would be there already, unless I abuse my bike I would not have to face that issue. And if I did, thousands of others would be in the same boat, and many are far more particular than I am of frame design.

You can't answer the simple question about your current bike that I asked ...
Yes, I can...I just don't have the dimensions written down. Have I measured and checked against new model geometries? Absolutely.

I don't want to come to wrong conclusions, but I am stunned by your near hatred for cannondale, as if you are a non US resident, hate the US, or had a horrible experience with them at some point in your life.

I stand on the words of many riders who have discussed numerous models in this price range, and they ALL say the same thing...."...they are all great bikes....just buy the one that fits you best and you are more comfortable with..."
How on earth is declaring that "Cannondale designs & makes great bikes ..." hatred?

How is citing potential, future problems which you/anyone may encounter with a design hatred?

Your statement is akin to the declarations being made by the Obamunists who are currently saying that protesting against anything that the current Administration wants to do is un-American.

FYI. You CANNOT nor SHOULD NOT base your judgement on what a "paid" writer in a periodical states about ANY bike ... be it a Cannondale, Fuji, Giant, Trek, Bianchi, Colnago, Orbea, Pinarello, whatever ... those are the LEAST reliable sources for information.

In the cases where they have a side-by-side, you often have to read-between-the-lines to see what is going on ... and, therein you can see the biases.

It may be considered a poor example, but I think the reviews in BICYCLING (again, only for example) are really suspect ...

Several years ago, BICYCLING compared a $10,000 Merlin Cyrene with a sub-$2000 Motobecane something-or-other. The reviewer's remarks included how well the Merlin handled on descents compared with the Motobecane BUT did not take into account that it could have been the wheels & tires!

Did the reviewer bother to put the Motobecane wheelset on the Merlin, or vice-versa?

Even if the component groups on the Merlin & Motobecane were incompatible, for the purpose of how the bikes handled descending on a particular roadway, they could have simply put the wheels on the different frames & "coasted" downhill OR set the derailleur so the chain was on a comparably sized cog (e.g., 12t) so the rider could pedal when s/he chose to.

As I suggested, if you are going to compare different Cannondale models, you have to ensure that the wheelset is THE SAME & the tire pressure (and, the tires, themselves) is the same ...

BETTER, yet, would be if you brought-or-bring YOUR current wheelset so you would have a KNOWN reference point against which you could compare the various frames you are considering.

Recently, when BICYCLING recently compared a 26" MTB with a 29er, the writer/(someone) did NOT choose frames which were comparably sized although they both had the same nominal size (I think they were "medium") and so the virtual top tube on the 29er was (by recollection) 2cm longer, yet he complained (that may be too strong a word) about the 29er being too large (or, something in that vein).

How RETARDED are their reviewers OR how STUPID do they think we are?!? OR, how stupid ARE most of the readers?!?

ALL magazine reviews should be taken with a grain of salt ...

Often, a reviewer (including VeloNews, by my recollection) will mention how one brake caliper is better than another WITHOUT taking into account the brake pad compound.

In a true test, the same pad compound would be used -- i.e., the holder-and-pads on the "better" brakes would be put on the OTHER calipers (and, vice-versa) and then rate the various calipers ... AND/OR, qualify the review by saying that some/none/all of the difference is in the pads.

So, it is easy to say a Dura Ace caliper is superior to almost any other caliper because Shimano has spent a great deal of R&D on the brake pad compound. How will a lowly Tektro caliper rate if it simply had a set of DA pads? Or, how will those super-expensive DA calipers respond if they had Tektro pads?

VeloNews recently (a few months ago) reviewed wheelsets, but there was NO benchmark reference point (e.g., a traditional 32-or-36 spoke wheelset); so, even though there were 'numbers' which could be compared, the information was incomplete.

There is BIG MONEY in those high-zoot wheelsets -- it doesn't benefit VeloNews if they (or, other publications) mention that a person is often better off having a pair of custom-but-otherwise-"regular" wheels laced to some Campagnolo, DT, or Shimano hubs.

You have to read most magazine reviews as being a second-party/("paid") press release since it is in their vested interest to say nice things because if they don't then they won't get future toys to play with ... sometimes, the periodical gets to keep what they review!

Glean what you can from the information in magazine reviews, but Puh-leeze don't think they are as meaningful as you are apparently presuming.

I am NOT the final arbiter of what ANYONE should buy ... frame OR component group OR wheels. People who know me often don't listen to my suggestions, though they often regret it later.

You asked for opinions. You've got mine.

I'm not blocking the Cannondale fan club on the Forum from speaking up. Maybe, they're all on vacation ... OR, this exchange may eventually awaken one/some of them enough to reenforce the eariler accounts you've read.

Regardless, I think that you always have to take into account what I refer to as the-emperor's-new-clothes syndrome ... few people like to admit that a recent bike purchase was a mistake, especially if they paid more than $2000 for it.

As I said, you'll either be more-than-glad that you ignored the caveats about Cannondales OR the day may come when you rue having ignored them.

BTW. Are you a newly/recently born-again "buy American" individual OR is the Nissan now an American car brand?!?

BTW2. Is your old bike in storage? Was it stolen? Why weren't/haven't you able to measure it?
 

crankitfast

New Member
Aug 24, 2008
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I agree with you regarding magazine writeups. However, viewpoints I have referred to are from cycling enthusiasts such as us, not editors.

FYI, my Nissan was bought used, and since I am tall it was one of 3 sedans that I narrowed my search down to (fit & performance, again) and just so happened to fit the bill at the time of purchase. Unfortunately, the other 2 were also non "American" brands.

BTW, Honda actually has more "American" content in their Accords than does GM in many of their models. Pitty. In fact, GM imports complete vehicles for sale.

I'm not here to argue import/export issues, but cannot deny what I mentioned earlier about cannondales being usa produced. However, again, I am not limiting myself to them.

Also, I did say twice above that I did measure my bike....don't have the numbers written down. And no, it was not stolen/storage.

I realize your concerns over future repairs on the frames/components and I am certainly checking into those issues. I am old-school guy with tapered spindles and have done all my own maintenance. I certainly am not looking to get locked into a corner on a new purchase. If that means no cannondale, then it means no cannondale. Or is it Trek/Bianchi/Orbea/Felt/Specialized/Scott? I don't know....Yet. It could be.
 

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