looking for Polar software

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Steve G, Aug 16, 2003.

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  1. Steve G

    Steve G Guest

    I have a 610s HR monitor. Changed computers about 2 months ago, and found out my HRM memory is
    full.. Went to look for the disk to install the software to the new machine.. can't find it. Wrote
    Polar.. too much to buy a new disk. Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy a
    HRM?? Anyway, anyone able to post to a binary group the disk? thanks, steve

    please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
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  2. Dan O'Brasky

    Dan O'Brasky Guest

    Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money! The disk costs, the burning time and human
    activity costs and the postage and packaging costs. it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk
    they sold you as part of the package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional
    copy of intellectual property. If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at
    least they are covered in some minimal way--plus they have to stock the stuff and housing it costs
    in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is made in Europe but is shipped to the
    US...does that make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay for it, plain
    and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because in your
    utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what everyone else
    does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Dan "Steve G"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I have a 610s HR monitor. Changed computers about 2 months ago, and found out my HRM memory is
    > full.. Went to look for the disk to install the software to the new machine.. can't find it. Wrote
    > Polar.. too much to buy a new disk. Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy
    > a HRM?? Anyway, anyone able to post to a binary group the disk? thanks, steve
    >
    > please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
  3. Java Man

    Java Man Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy a HRM??
    >
    I guess Polar has two choices:
    - provide a free disk to Polar owners who want one, and defray the cost by charging ALL Polar
    buyers more;
    - charge only those who need a disk.

    I prefer the latter.

    Rick
     
  4. Joe Riel

    Joe Riel Guest

    Java Man (Espressopithecus) <[email protected]> writes:

    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy a HRM??

    I never figured that one out.

    > I guess Polar has two choices:
    > - provide a free disk to Polar owners who want one, and defray the cost by charging ALL Polar
    > buyers more;
    > - charge only those who need a disk.

    There is this thing called the internet. Who needs disks to distribute software?

    Joe Riel
     
  5. Steve G

    Steve G Guest

    Dan, As someone else posted... all they need to do is post the file.. no overhead, no stocking, no
    nothing. I did buy the HRM and thought they might accommodate my request. Obviously not. No harm, no
    foul, all I did was ask. steve

    On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:27:00 GMT, "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money! The disk costs, the burning time and human
    >activity costs and the postage and packaging costs. it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk
    >they sold you as part of the package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional
    >copy of intellectual property. If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at
    >least they are covered in some minimal way--plus they have to stock the stuff and housing it costs
    >in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is made in Europe but is shipped to the
    >US...does that make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay for it, plain
    >and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because in your
    >utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what everyone else
    >does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Dan "Steve G"
    ><[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> I have a 610s HR monitor. Changed computers about 2 months ago, and found out my HRM memory is
    >> full.. Went to look for the disk to install the software to the new machine.. can't find it.
    >> Wrote Polar.. too much to buy a new disk. Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you
    >> didn't buy a HRM?? Anyway, anyone able to post to a binary group the disk? thanks, steve
    >>
    >> please remove "nospam" in address when replying
    >

    please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
  6. Paulus

    Paulus Guest

    try looking for it on kazza or simalar

    "Steve G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Dan, As someone else posted... all they need to do is post the file.. no overhead, no stocking, no
    > nothing. I did buy the HRM and thought they might accommodate my request. Obviously not. No harm,
    > no foul, all I did was ask. steve
    >
    >
    > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:27:00 GMT, "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money! The disk costs,
    the
    > >burning time and human activity costs and the postage and packaging
    costs.
    > >it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk they sold you as part of
    the
    > >package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional copy
    of
    > >intellectual property. If you are telling the truth that is one thing,
    if
    > >you aren't at least they are covered in some minimal way--plus they have
    to
    > >stock the stuff and housing it costs in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is
    > >made in Europe but is shipped to the US...does
    that
    > >make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay
    for
    > >it, plain and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because
    > >in your utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what
    > >everyone else does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Dan "Steve G"
    > ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> I have a 610s HR monitor. Changed computers about 2 months ago, and found out my HRM memory is
    > >> full.. Went to look for the disk to install the software to the new machine.. can't find it.
    > >> Wrote Polar.. too much to buy a new disk. Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you
    > >> didn't buy a HRM?? Anyway, anyone able to post to a binary group the disk? thanks, steve
    > >>
    > >> please remove "nospam" in address when replying
    > >
    >
    > please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
  7. In article <oXs%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

    >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money!

    The person already paid when they bought their monitor.

    >The disk costs, the burning time and human activity costs and the postage and packaging costs.

    Easily solved issue. Provide free downloads and charge people who want to buy a disc.

    >it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk they sold you as part of the package. Plus on top
    >of all that, they are giving out an additional copy of intellectual property.

    He already has a license for the software, so he shouldn't have to pay for the license a
    second time.

    >If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at least they are covered in some
    >minimal way--plus they have to stock the stuff and housing it costs in real estate and it ties up
    >their capital. The product is made in Europe but is shipped to the US...does that make more sense?
    >They provide you a product and a service, so you pay for it, plain and simple. Last time I heard
    >they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because in your utopian imagination you would not
    >have the product because you would simple get what everyone else does, everything dumbed down to
    >the lowest common denominator.

    A simple download sight would solve the problem quite nicely. I would save polar a lot of trouble.
    -----------------
    Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  8. Ottodog

    Ottodog Guest

    Agreed! It's called customer service. For the amount of money you have to throw down for their
    equipment, I don't think a .39 cent disk should be such a hassle. It's not like the software would
    be much value if you don't own one of their HRM's.

    Chris

    "Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <oXs%[email protected]>,
    [email protected]
    > says...
    >
    > >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money!
    >
    > The person already paid when they bought their monitor.
    >
    > >The disk costs, the burning time and human activity costs and the postage and packaging
    costs.
    >
    > Easily solved issue. Provide free downloads and charge people who want to buy a disc.
    >
    > >it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk they sold you as part of
    the
    > >package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional copy
    of
    > >intellectual property.
    >
    > He already has a license for the software, so he shouldn't have to pay for the license a
    > second time.
    >
    > >If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at least they are covered in some
    > >minimal way--plus they have
    to
    > >stock the stuff and housing it costs in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is
    > >made in Europe but is shipped to the US...does
    that
    > >make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay
    for
    > >it, plain and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because
    > >in your utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what
    > >everyone else does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
    >
    > A simple download sight would solve the problem quite nicely. I would save polar a lot of trouble.
    > -----------------
    > Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  9. Steve G

    Steve G Guest

    Thanks to someone helpful on the list, I was able to get the files AND the update. I was then able
    to empty my full watch! Thanks to those who supported me. I enjoy the nice people in life! steve

    On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:15:27 -0400, Steve G <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have a 610s HR monitor. Changed computers about 2 months ago, and found out my HRM memory is
    >full.. Went to look for the disk to install the software to the new machine.. can't find it. Wrote
    >Polar.. too much to buy a new disk. Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy
    >a HRM?? Anyway, anyone able to post to a binary group the disk? thanks, steve
    >
    >please remove "nospam" in address when replying

    please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
  10. Dan O'Brasky

    Dan O'Brasky Guest

    And hard drives, servers, ISP's, etc. are what? Free? I don't think so. If you lose the key to your
    BMW, do you get a replacement for free? Heck you paid 30, 40, maybe even $125,000. I don't think so.
    User error is not the responsibility of a seller to warranty or support. Sorry it is called commerce
    folks, not customer service. Plus, you have no idea what Polar's profit margins are!

    The problem with webheads is they think everything is supposed to be "free" to them. I'm sorry, I
    can commiserate, but I cannot agree with this mentality.

    "Joe Riel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Java Man (Espressopithecus) <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > > Not sure why that isn't free. Who can use it if you didn't buy a HRM??
    >
    > I never figured that one out.
    >
    > > I guess Polar has two choices:
    > > - provide a free disk to Polar owners who want one, and defray the cost by charging ALL Polar
    > > buyers more;
    > > - charge only those who need a disk.
    >
    > There is this thing called the internet. Who needs disks to distribute software?
    >
    >
    > Joe Riel
     
  11. Dan O'Brasky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >And hard drives, servers, ISP's, etc. are what? Free? I don't think so.

    The marginal cost to Polar, who already have a Website, of providing floppy images for download -
    given the frequency with which people require them - would be essentially zero, yes.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
     
  12. Joe Riel

    Joe Riel Guest

    "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> writes:

    > If you lose the key to your BMW, do you get a replacement for free? Heck you paid 30, 40, maybe
    > even $125,000. I don't think so.

    Have you purchased such a car recently? I suspect you could get a key free if you paid that kind of
    money. Hell, I got a free key for my three year old Hyundai a few months ago. It's called service.
    Some companies realize that the marginal cost for such items is essentially zero.

    Unless it is a big revenue item, there are advantages to giving the software away---for example, a
    lot of the support issues for old versions of software go away if the customer can download the
    latest version. However, given the nonexistent support for Polar s/w [things may be different today,
    but that wasn't my experience a while ago] that might not be an issue [to the seller].

    > the responsibility of a seller to warranty or support.

    Well, there wasn't any support for NT several years, which was annoying. I hope things are
    better today...

    Joe Riel
     
  13. Dan O'Brasky

    Dan O'Brasky Guest

    You all seem to be missing the point. Customer error and "free customer service" do not go hand in
    hand. The guy who got a new key, a generic piece of crap easily duplicated, from his cheesy Korean
    car company is not a manufacturer issue it is a dealer prerogative. The dealer has an on-going
    stream of money where he makes his entire profit in service. polar is a developer and manufacturer.
    You all seem to have no idea what it actually costs a company to produce things, particularly after
    market and repair or replacement items that they need to make say 500 or 5000 of at once which may
    be supply for 5 or more years--the cost of inventorying alone makes the product a loser. Again, you
    buy a product for the price asked--and do not presume any company who manufactures and provides
    terms to their dealers and supports a labor force and a sales force is overflowing in profit. Even
    the cost of providing a useful versus a worthless manual is relatively speaking a very large
    increase in cost. And when companies cross national borders and currencies they do not increase and
    decrease prices every time exchange rates change. It flat out costs a lot more to make a high
    quality product than an ordinary one that may pack in many features but defect rates are
    high--ultimately costing the customer. So stop bitching if someone wants $19.99 for replacement
    software or something. Again, obviously none of you are in sales, marketing or manufacturing and you
    all seem to have these utopian ideas--having a web server and a url is not some simplistic project
    without cost. For your information, every company pays for things like bandwidth, backup,
    maintenance, development, editing, etc. Everything added has a cost as well as every extra megabyte
    of storage and bandwidth. Please do not talk to me about gee it will save the company this and that
    to "not have to deal with the customer"--they deal with him then in a different manner which is not
    a static cost. Oh and by the way to the guy who said Microsoft at some point did not support NT
    early on--where did you get that load of crap. I sold over $1mm a year of it at the time and they
    certainly supported my customers--for a fee. Talk about what you have expertise--having an opinion
    is like having an asshole, so what! And to the Kazza suggestor, well that is patently an illegal
    service and violates every ethical principle there is. Steal someone else's product because no one
    will come after you--try that explanation to the police when they catch you shoplifting a pair of
    pantyhose, some chewing gum and a few CD's at your local Target or Wal-Mart. And then tell it to the
    judge Wynona! because it is not locked down and sits on a shelf for you to pick and bring to the
    cashier, that does not give you the right to take it because the CEO lives in a $10MM mansion on the
    shore or a golf course. The question is why I think all of you who openly support theft of property
    and intellectual property or demand this tone of entitlement can have a rational discussion of ideas
    and things like ethics--instead it is all about what can I get out of them later! Ugh! Dan "Alex
    Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <oXs%[email protected]>,
    [email protected]
    > says...
    >
    > >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money!
    >
    > The person already paid when they bought their monitor.
    >
    > >The disk costs, the burning time and human activity costs and the postage and packaging
    costs.
    >
    > Easily solved issue. Provide free downloads and charge people who want to buy a disc.
    >
    > >it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk they sold you as part of
    the
    > >package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional copy
    of
    > >intellectual property.
    >
    > He already has a license for the software, so he shouldn't have to pay for the license a
    > second time.
    >
    > >If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at least they are covered in some
    > >minimal way--plus they have
    to
    > >stock the stuff and housing it costs in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is
    > >made in Europe but is shipped to the US...does
    that
    > >make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay
    for
    > >it, plain and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because
    > >in your utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what
    > >everyone else does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
    >
    > A simple download sight would solve the problem quite nicely. I would save polar a lot of trouble.
    > -----------------
    > Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
     
  14. Joe Riel

    Joe Riel Guest

    "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> writes:

    > You all seem to be missing the point.

    Let me clarify a few points that you missed

    Customer error and "free customer

    > The guy who got a new key, a generic piece of crap easily duplicated, from his cheesy Korean car
    > company is not a manufacturer issue it is a dealer prerogative.

    Hey, that's my cheesy car! Why pay more for something that sits in the driveway six days out of the
    week? Your point is ironic in that the software is more easily duplicated than the key.

    > stream of money where he makes his entire profit in service. polar is a developer and
    > manufacturer. You all seem to have no idea what it actually costs a company to produce things,
    > particularly after market and repair or replacement items that they need to make say 500 or 5000
    > of at once which may be supply for 5 or more years--the cost of inventorying alone makes the
    > product a loser.

    Yeah, it sure costs me a lot to give away the software I've written :cool:. If they are losing money on
    it then they should rethink their strategy.

    > Oh and by the way to the guy who said Microsoft at some point did not support NT early on--where
    > did you get that load of crap.

    You misunderstood the statement---though it was not clear. I was talking about the Polar s/w; Polar
    did not support NT, not when I was using it. No mention of M/S anywhere.

    > And to the Kazza suggestor

    I agree with you, and do not condone nor practive the activity. On the other hand, I don't pay a
    dime for my software, it's all GNU Linux or stuff that was given to me by the creator. I give the
    stuff that I've written away, but that is my perogative.

    The point that I was making is that it might make sense for Polar to give their s/w away. They don't
    need to package it in a fancy box or provide a printed manual. It's not like people are going to use
    it without purchasing their hardware.

    There are freely available Linux programs for downloading and displaying the data from some of the
    Polar HRMs, for example, http://daveb.net/xtplus/.

    Joe
     
  15. Dan O'Brasky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >You all seem to be missing the point. Customer error and "free customer service" do not go hand in
    >hand. The guy who got a new key, a generic piece of crap easily duplicated,

    It's odd you should say that when the software is enormously more cheap to duplicate.

    >utopian ideas--having a web server and a url is not some simplistic project without cost.

    But of course they _already_ have such things.

    For your information, every company pays for things like
    >bandwidth, backup, maintenance, development, editing, etc. Everything added has a cost as well as
    >every extra megabyte of storage and bandwidth.

    Yes, and the cost of providing a small volume of data needed infrequently is microscopic.

    >do not talk to me about gee it will save the company this and that to "not have to deal with the
    >customer"--they deal with him then in a different manner

    _Specifically_, a manner not involving consuming the time of human employees for every person who
    wants a copy of the software and is suitably surprised to find that Polar seem to think they're a
    software vendor, not an HRM vendor, something which is enormously more expensive than providing a
    floppy image for download.

    >expertise--having an opinion is like having an asshole, so what! And to the Kazza suggestor, well
    >that is patently an illegal service and violates every ethical principle there is. Steal someone
    >else's product because no one will come after you--try that explanation to the police when they
    >catch you shoplifting a pair of pantyhose, some chewing gum and a few CD's at your local Target or
    >Wal-Mart.

    If you are not competent to distinguish copyright violation and theft, you are also not competent to
    comment on them.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  16. Steve G

    Steve G Guest

    Guess I'll weigh back in on this since I started the thread. Dan, I do understand what service is
    and what profit margins are. I do know that downloading something that is not your's is illegal. I
    guess what I don't understand is that why in the world would anyone want the software, if they
    hadn't purchased the HRM (along with the software) originally. Yes, it's my fault that I can't find
    the disk that I have misplaced. It just seems to me that if you can download the manual, why can't
    the latest version of the software be gotten the same way? You can get the upgrade online. How
    difficult is it to add the original? Maybe they wouldn't advertise it, but in a polite email that I
    sent, seems like they might have been customer friendly. Especially to an exisiting customer. At
    least we can agree to disagree? steve

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 04:31:14 GMT, "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You all seem to be missing the point. Customer error and "free customer service" do not go hand in
    >hand. The guy who got a new key, a generic piece of crap easily duplicated, from his cheesy Korean
    >car company is not a manufacturer issue it is a dealer prerogative. The dealer has an on-going
    >stream of money where he makes his entire profit in service. polar is a developer and manufacturer.
    >You all seem to have no idea what it actually costs a company to produce things, particularly after
    >market and repair or replacement items that they need to make say 500 or 5000 of at once which may
    >be supply for 5 or more years--the cost of inventorying alone makes the product a loser. Again, you
    >buy a product for the price asked--and do not presume any company who manufactures and provides
    >terms to their dealers and supports a labor force and a sales force is overflowing in profit. Even
    >the cost of providing a useful versus a worthless manual is relatively speaking a very large
    >increase in cost. And when companies cross national borders and currencies they do not increase and
    >decrease prices every time exchange rates change. It flat out costs a lot more to make a high
    >quality product than an ordinary one that may pack in many features but defect rates are
    >high--ultimately costing the customer. So stop bitching if someone wants $19.99 for replacement
    >software or something. Again, obviously none of you are in sales, marketing or manufacturing and
    >you all seem to have these utopian ideas--having a web server and a url is not some simplistic
    >project without cost. For your information, every company pays for things like bandwidth, backup,
    >maintenance, development, editing, etc. Everything added has a cost as well as every extra megabyte
    >of storage and bandwidth. Please do not talk to me about gee it will save the company this and that
    >to "not have to deal with the customer"--they deal with him then in a different manner which is not
    >a static cost. Oh and by the way to the guy who said Microsoft at some point did not support NT
    >early on--where did you get that load of crap. I sold over $1mm a year of it at the time and they
    >certainly supported my customers--for a fee. Talk about what you have expertise--having an opinion
    >is like having an asshole, so what! And to the Kazza suggestor, well that is patently an illegal
    >service and violates every ethical principle there is. Steal someone else's product because no one
    >will come after you--try that explanation to the police when they catch you shoplifting a pair of
    >pantyhose, some chewing gum and a few CD's at your local Target or Wal-Mart. And then tell it to
    >the judge Wynona! because it is not locked down and sits on a shelf for you to pick and bring to
    >the cashier, that does not give you the right to take it because the CEO lives in a $10MM mansion
    >on the shore or a golf course. The question is why I think all of you who openly support theft of
    >property and intellectual property or demand this tone of entitlement can have a rational
    >discussion of ideas and things like ethics--instead it is all about what can I get out of them
    >later! Ugh! Dan "Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article <oXs%[email protected]>,
    >[email protected]
    >> says...
    >>
    >> >Why isn't it free? Well gee, because it costs money!
    >>
    >> The person already paid when they bought their monitor.
    >>
    >> >The disk costs, the burning time and human activity costs and the postage and packaging
    >costs.
    >>
    >> Easily solved issue. Provide free downloads and charge people who want to buy a disc.
    >>
    >> >it isn't Polar's problem that you lost the disk they sold you as part of
    >the
    >> >package. Plus on top of all that, they are giving out an additional copy
    >of
    >> >intellectual property.
    >>
    >> He already has a license for the software, so he shouldn't have to pay for the license a
    >> second time.
    >>
    >> >If you are telling the truth that is one thing, if you aren't at least they are covered in some
    >> >minimal way--plus they have
    >to
    >> >stock the stuff and housing it costs in real estate and it ties up their capital. The product is
    >> >made in Europe but is shipped to the US...does
    >that
    >> >make more sense? They provide you a product and a service, so you pay
    >for
    >> >it, plain and simple. Last time I heard they were a "for-profit" enterprise---good thing because
    >> >in your utopian imagination you would not have the product because you would simple get what
    >> >everyone else does, everything dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.
    >>
    >> A simple download sight would solve the problem quite nicely. I would save polar a lot of
    >> trouble.
    >> -----------------
    >> Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)
    >>
    >>
    >

    please remove "nospam" in address when replying
     
  17. Steve G <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I do know that downloading something that is not your's is illegal.

    But not necessarily unethical - you were buying the HRM, not the software. I wouldn't see anything
    wrong with obtaining a copy by any practical means.

    >the original? Maybe they wouldn't advertise it, but in a polite email that I sent, seems like they
    >might have been customer friendly.

    They'd do well to advertise it - just answering that email cost them more than something on their
    Website saying "grab the HRM software here" would. Humans' time is really expensive.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
     
  18. Dan O'Brasky

    Dan O'Brasky Guest

    You are buying a package of a monitor and the software to make use of the data it collects and
    there-in you get the higher benefit. It is certainly odd that you would say this. There is a
    difference between a manual and software. Must I explain the relative value and cost savings to the
    customer to not print a manual and simply provide it online? Shipping, printing, etc.....

    Most seem to see this as a onesided, well gee software should be free....huh? Well then maybe wheat
    products and fruit should be as well....

    And one last thing to this disjointed reply--I am tired tonight--why would someone want the software
    if they didn't have the monitor? Well, let's see, they are a competitor trying to reverse engineer
    it to take shortcuts making it work with their product? Or how about the guy who buys his heart rate
    monitor from a friend? Or from a non-authorized dealer masquerading as a dealer on ebay? Or maybe he
    stole the display model? Or robbed a truck?.....That question is just plain spurious. Again, a self
    justification. Now if you asked why it will cost $129 to get another copy of the software, well then
    I am with you on wanting to know why! Just so no one thinks I am in the ether, I lose stuff too and
    I groan when I have to pay to replace it, but I do try to remind myself that I lost it and I expect
    to have to pay--and I have no problem with that, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it!

    dan

    Dan

    "David Damerell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:am*[email protected]...
    > Steve G <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >I do know that downloading something that is not your's is illegal.
    >
    > But not necessarily unethical - you were buying the HRM, not the software. I wouldn't see anything
    > wrong with obtaining a copy by any practical means.
    >
    > >the original? Maybe they wouldn't advertise it, but in a polite email that I sent, seems like
    > >they might have been customer friendly.
    >
    > They'd do well to advertise it - just answering that email cost them more than something on their
    > Website saying "grab the HRM software here" would. Humans' time is really expensive.
    > --
    > David Damerell <[email protected]chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
     
  19. Dan O'Brasky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Most seem to see this as a onesided, well gee software should be free....huh?

    This is a straw man, since no-one is advocating this position in general.

    >Well then maybe wheat products and fruit should be as well....

    This is a demented analogy, since wheat products and fruit do not admit of duplication at
    near-zero cost.

    >And one last thing to this disjointed reply--I am tired tonight--why would someone want the
    >software if they didn't have the monitor? Well, let's see, they are a competitor trying to reverse
    >engineer it to take shortcuts making it work with their product?

    Then presumably their budget will extend to buying one of the monitors themselves, which they will
    need in any case.

    >Or how about the guy who buys his heart rate monitor from a friend?

    Yes, it would be a good thing if second-hand sales were not made more awkward by non-availability
    of software.

    >Or maybe he stole the display model? Or robbed a truck?

    Do you have any evidence to suggest that theft of devices that don't require software is higher?

    [Presumably the truck is carrying the software as well as the devices!]
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
     
  20. software can be downloaded from the Polar website...

    "Dan O'Brasky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > You are buying a package of a monitor and the software to make use of the data it collects and
    > there-in you get the higher benefit. It is certainly odd that you would say this. There is a
    > difference between a manual and software. Must I explain the relative value and cost savings to
    > the customer to not print a manual and simply provide it online? Shipping, printing, etc.....
    >
    > Most seem to see this as a onesided, well gee software should be free....huh? Well then maybe
    > wheat products and fruit should be as
    well....
    >
    > And one last thing to this disjointed reply--I am tired tonight--why would someone want the
    > software if they didn't have the monitor? Well, let's
    see,
    > they are a competitor trying to reverse engineer it to take shortcuts
    making
    > it work with their product? Or how about the guy who buys his heart rate monitor from a friend? Or
    > from a non-authorized dealer masquerading as a dealer on ebay? Or maybe he stole the display
    > model? Or robbed a truck?.....That question is just plain spurious. Again, a self justification.
    > Now if you asked why it will cost $129 to get another copy of the software, well then I am with
    > you on wanting to know why! Just so
    no
    > one thinks I am in the ether, I lose stuff too and I groan when I have to pay to replace it, but I
    > do try to remind myself that I lost it and I
    expect
    > to have to pay--and I have no problem with that, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it!
    >
    > dan
    >
    > Dan
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "David Damerell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:am*[email protected]...
    > > Steve G <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >I do know that downloading something that is not your's is illegal.
    > >
    > > But not necessarily unethical - you were buying the HRM, not the
    software.
    > > I wouldn't see anything wrong with obtaining a copy by any practical means.
    > >
    > > >the original? Maybe they wouldn't advertise it, but in a polite email that I sent, seems like
    > > >they might have been customer friendly.
    > >
    > > They'd do well to advertise it - just answering that email cost them
    more
    > > than something on their Website saying "grab the HRM software here"
    would.
    > > Humans' time is really expensive.
    > > --
    > > David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
     
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