Looking for testers and initial purchases of a new model from Irish Cycles

[jmocallaghan]

Irish Cycles, a new start US Brand, is looking for people willing to test a new race frame and component package for the late 2008 model year. The bikes are complete HM Carbon and feature the following parts packages:

1. Syntace Race Light Carbon Bars
2. Deda 100 Alum Stems
3. Carbon Seat Post
4. Choice of SRAM Red, Force, or Rival components
5. Fulcrum wheels (working thru which model right now)
6. Fizik Saddles


We're working thru the final stages of graphics right now. The MSRPs of these bikes is on target with most current Net Direct companies however we'll focus on going thru shops. For a limited time as we get the first 20 bikes out, we're offering consumers the chance to purchase these bikes at a lower price to get initial feedback as they go into full production. The costs right now are finalizing but range $2400-$2500ish for the Full Red bike w/Fulcrum wheels (full Red Kit, no swapping cranks or brakes like others do), $2000-2100 for Force, and about $1700-$1800 for Rival. The MSRPs on these bikes will be quite a bit higher as the company is taking an inital loss to get these out and spread the name. They will be available for only a limited time before getting up to price. All of these are quite a bit below wholesale.

The frames are on par with Orbea's Opal, Wilier's Le Roi, and Kuota's Karma. For further information, please contact me.

 

[Powerful Pete]

Is there a website yet? Can you substantiate your claim that the frames will be on par with those that you mention (are you having them made by the same manufacturers)?

Just curious...

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Irish Cycles, a new start US Brand, is looking for people willing to test a new race frame and component package for the late 2008 model year. The bikes are complete HM Carbon and feature the following parts packages:

1. Syntace Race Light Carbon Bars
2. Deda 100 Alum Stems
3. Carbon Seat Post
4. Choice of SRAM Red, Force, or Rival components
5. Fulcrum wheels (working thru which model right now)
6. Fizik Saddles


We're working thru the final stages of graphics right now. The MSRPs of these bikes is on target with most current Net Direct companies however we'll focus on going thru shops. For a limited time as we get the first 20 bikes out, we're offering consumers the chance to purchase these bikes at a lower price to get initial feedback as they go into full production. The costs right now are finalizing but range $2400-$2500ish for the Full Red bike w/Fulcrum wheels (full Red Kit, no swapping cranks or brakes like others do), $2000-2100 for Force, and about $1700-$1800 for Rival. The MSRPs on these bikes will be quite a bit higher as the company is taking an inital loss to get these out and spread the name. They will be available for only a limited time before getting up to price. All of these are quite a bit below wholesale.

The frames are on par with Orbea's Opal, Wilier's Le Roi, and Kuota's Karma. For further information, please contact me.

Lessee..Red 8 piece group is $2200, Fulcrum wheels...about $800, hmmmm, add, carry the....gee, the price is negative..welcome to the twilight zone.

Net direct but you want to 'go thru shops'..good luck on that one.

 

[jmocallaghan]

Is there a website yet? Can you substantiate your claim that the frames will be on par with those that you mention (are you having them made by the same manufacturers)?

Just curious...

Good morning,

The web site is in the process of publication. We're awaiting receipt of the fnished bikes (prototypes have been received, patent law done, etc) since look does play a part in it.

Yes, the frames capabilities can be substantiated based on values obtained from tests that SDS has done for us. The truth is, we could talk about the HM carbon, etc, all the same stuff everyone is using in this range however, it doesn't mean a lot until you see the angles, the SDS results, etc.

So you know a little about the company, it was founded by several Racers working together to product a good product at a competitive and reasonable price that was affordable for USA cycling Cat 2 thru Cat 5 type racers.

The finished product should be available in sizes 48,52,54, 58 with a semi sloping geometry, etc. If you like, PM me and I will send you the geometries or you if you like, you can wait until they are published this Friday to Sunday on the site when it goes active.

We're pretty excited about it and again looking to get the first 20 or so out with some feedback from everyone.

 

[jmocallaghan]

Lessee..Red 8 piece group is $2200, Fulcrum wheels...about $800, hmmmm, add, carry the....gee, the price is negative..welcome to the twilight zone.

Net direct but you want to 'go thru shops'..good luck on that one.

As I said, the bikes are initially sold at a loss. MSRP is much higher as I stated. Likewise, there are multiple levels of the Fulcrum wheels, we're working with them right now on what we are spec'ing.

No twilight zone here. Net direct is also not really a way the company is looking to go such as Velovie, Leopard, etc.

 

[Eden]

I won't say if I think this particular case is legit or not, but I do think manufacturers sell below the cost point sometimes just to get the word out. I have a Specialized Ruby Pro that I got for $3500 (the similar unisex model was about $2000 more expensive). The year I bought it (which was the first year it was offered), it came with full DA, including the wheelset. So from what I can surmise, the group and wheels were worth about $2700 retail, and that only leaves $800 for the frame, seatpost, handlebars, saddle, labor etc... Now I'm sure that Specialized gets the components way cheaper than you can retail, but I still think that they took a hit in profits on those particular bikes that year just to get the word out. Now, Specialized is a big company and they didn't make many of my particular bike that year (mine was one of nine in its size/model) so taking a loss, or at very least not making much profit on just a few bikes could benefit them in the long run if they gain brand loyalty (which they did in me) and good publicity. And they only did it for a year - the next model year, the comperable model was much more in line pice wise with the similarly equipped unisex one.

 

[jmocallaghan]

I won't say if I think this particular case is legit or not, but I do think manufacturers sell below the cost point sometimes just to get the word out. I have a Specialized Ruby Pro that I got for $3500 (the similar unisex model was about $2000 more expensive). The year I bought it (which was the first year it was offered), it came with full DA, including the wheelset. So from what I can surmise, the group and wheels were worth about $2700 retail, and that only leaves $800 for the frame, seatpost, handlebars, saddle, labor etc... Now I'm sure that Specialized gets the components way cheaper than you can retail, but I still think that they took a hit in profits on those particular bikes that year just to get the word out. Now, Specialized is a big company and they didn't make many of my particular bike that year (mine was one of nine in its size/model) so taking a loss, or at very least not making much profit on just a few bikes could benefit them in the long run if they gain brand loyalty (which they did in me) and good publicity. And they only did it for a year - the next model year, the comperable model was much more in line pice wise with the similarly equipped unisex one.

Yes, it is quite legit. The company was formed by a few former elite racers who and mechanics so the idea is not to gouge the consumer. Again, I'll stress since I am working this for the company, that the frames are being sold at a loss initially to get them out on get back further feedback. Their is definately a loss per unit here without question. That is why we're looking for those interested now and only 20 people. After that, they will refine the marketing and use comments, etc, and the price obivously jumps up significantly.

We're looking to establish a one on one relationship in essence with these first 20 riders for commentary and questions. It is not as much a freebie as some may think because they'll come and ask questions of the riders, etc. So in essence, the riders provide work to the company. Make sense? That way the loss is really in the pursuit of knoweldge and further refinement.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

As I said, the bikes are initially sold at a loss. MSRP is much higher as I stated. Likewise, there are multiple levels of the Fulcrum wheels, we're working with them right now on what we are spec'ing.

No twilight zone here. Net direct is also not really a way the company is looking to go such as Velovie, Leopard, etc.

Well, actually you said 'at a lower price', not 'at a loss'. Test away but undercutting LBS/IBD is not the way to ingratiate yourselves to bike shops.

As for Fulcrum, I assumed that by offering Sram's hghest level group you would probably be offering a high-ish level wheel as well.

Even at wholesale..Red is about $1600, wheels are about $600...the rest about $350..not even including the frame..why not offer this to some local racers/club to test, then market, including real world riding and racing??

With the way it was presented, don't expect LBS' to beat a path to your door.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I won't say if I think this particular case is legit or not, but I do think manufacturers sell below the cost point sometimes just to get the word out. I have a Specialized Ruby Pro that I got for $3500 (the similar unisex model was about $2000 more expensive). The year I bought it (which was the first year it was offered), it came with full DA, including the wheelset. So from what I can surmise, the group and wheels were worth about $2700 retail, and that only leaves $800 for the frame, seatpost, handlebars, saddle, labor etc... Now I'm sure that Specialized gets the components way cheaper than you can retail, but I still think that they took a hit in profits on those particular bikes that year just to get the word out. Now, Specialized is a big company and they didn't make many of my particular bike that year (mine was one of nine in its size/model) so taking a loss, or at very least not making much profit on just a few bikes could benefit them in the long run if they gain brand loyalty (which they did in me) and good publicity. And they only did it for a year - the next model year, the comperable model was much more in line pice wise with the similarly equipped unisex one.

All true and I understand but don't expect a bike shop to be thrilled with a place that is selling below cost(generally called dumping), in order to get the word out, particularly when it is going to be consumer direct.

I would expect that is they intend to spec any of their frames with shimano, they may have a problem with that. In addition, Specialized is not internet/direct to consumer in any way.

 

[Eden]

All true and I understand but don't expect a bike shop to be thrilled with a place that is selling below cost(generally called dumping), in order to get the word out, particularly when it is going to be consumer direct.

I would expect that is they intend to spec any of their frames with shimano, they may have a problem with that. In addition, Specialized is not internet/direct to consumer in any way.

I don't think the shop was taking the hit - they could have offered me MSRP, but they chose to give me the best deal they could instead. I think Specialized ate most oftheir costs on the high end women's models that year to test the waters - see if there was enough demand to justify the line. Like I said the next year the prices were definitely higher. Shimano, I assume, was not in on the deal. They got whatever the going rate they offer big companies is and Specialized chose to price the bikes lower than normal - the cost did cover the group plus some, just not as much as one would expect a normal profit margin to be. Though after the shop took their percentage, I'm not sure what would be left for the them.. This year just a frameset for a lower model than mine (though perhaps comperable, as mine is an 05) is $1400
I really do think they were testing the waters out. The bike I got was the only one recent Specialized model I've ever seen with full DA on it. None of their other bikes had DA cranks, or wheelsets (and they've stopped doing this on their women's bikes too). I think for the limited number of bikes they decided to make the first year, it was just easier to put the full group on them.

 

[jmocallaghan]

Well, actually you said 'at a lower price', not 'at a loss'. Test away but undercutting LBS/IBD is not the way to ingratiate yourselves to bike shops.

As for Fulcrum, I assumed that by offering Sram's hghest level group you would probably be offering a high-ish level wheel as well.

Even at wholesale..Red is about $1600, wheels are about $600...the rest about $350..not even including the frame..why not offer this to some local racers/club to test, then market, including real world riding and racing??

With the way it was presented, don't expect LBS' to beat a path to your door.

Either way, thanks for your take. We've got 5 local racers on it, just looking for more, hence the 20 more.

 

[jmocallaghan]

All true and I understand but don't expect a bike shop to be thrilled with a place that is selling below cost(generally called dumping), in order to get the word out, particularly when it is going to be consumer direct.

I would expect that is they intend to spec any of their frames with shimano, they may have a problem with that. In addition, Specialized is not internet/direct to consumer in any way.

No, no, no. Not dumping. We're looking for 20 units to people, not wholesale dumping. Yes, we take a loss on the initial bikes. If you want to say we're dumping and out to get LBSs, I am not going to convince you but for those who are reading this for what it is we are looking for 20 people. No problem with Shimano, we've already signed the contact but let's not talk about who shot John because it misses the whole point here. But if there are questions of clarification, here we go:

- New start company looking for 20 quality riders to ride new bikes and provide feedback
- Initial limited amount sold at a loss
- Limited amount (not dumping)
- We're using SRAM on the inital lot b/c we'd like people's take on SRAM and it's marketabilty (consequently we've got Shimano as well)

No hidden agenda, no dark project to undermind LBSs, etc. If you're reading this and interested, please PM me (at this time down to 16 more riders needed)

 

[Dean Thomas]

id be interested in having a look at a website although I can't afford a bike at the moment I may be interested in the future