Loose cone on Schwinn rear hub woes...help?!

[geardad]

My wife has a Schwinn Sidewinder..I'm not sure of the vintage...prbly 90's..definitely after Schwinn began making decent bikes.

Anyhoo, the rear wheel doesn't have quick release, but the old-style bolt-and-washer set up. the exact order on the side I worked on is as follows:

Hub>bearing race>cone>nut>dropout>washer>nut

We had to take the wheel off to replace rubber and do some general cleaning, but later noticed the hub was "wobbly". what I mean is, the hub/cone/bearing/axle assembly wasn't firm..there was play in that..far too much play.

I took the thing off again, packed the non-freewheel side with fresh grease (don't have tools to take the freewheel off so couldn't do that side) and re-seated the bearing race and cone, and put one nut on just tight enough to keep the cone at "kissing" pressure with respect to those bearings.

I took great care to make sure all was tight enough, not too tight, before and after re-mounting the wheel, and all seemed good.

After one 2-mile ride, the thing again has play in it!

We don't want to trash what is really a perfectly useable wheel, but I'd like to avoid spending money on service. If we have to, we have to, but I'd like to have another go at it myself before throwing in my grease rag.

Any suggestions on how to get this beastie set right and to stay put?

Many thanks!

geardad

 

[alfeng]

My wife has a Schwinn Sidewinder..I'm not sure of the vintage...prbly 90's..definitely after Schwinn began making decent bikes.

Anyhoo, the rear wheel doesn't have quick release, but the old-style bolt-and-washer set up. the exact order on the side I worked on is as follows:

Hub>bearing race>cone>nut>dropout>washer>nut

We had to take the wheel off to replace rubber and do some general cleaning, but later noticed the hub was "wobbly". what I mean is, the hub/cone/bearing/axle assembly wasn't firm..there was play in that..far too much play.

I took the thing off again, packed the non-freewheel side with fresh grease (don't have tools to take the freewheel off so couldn't do that side) and re-seated the bearing race and cone, and put one nut on just tight enough to keep the cone at "kissing" pressure with respect to those bearings.

I took great care to make sure all was tight enough, not too tight, before and after re-mounting the wheel, and all seemed good.

After one 2-mile ride, the thing again has play in it!

We don't want to trash what is really a perfectly useable wheel, but I'd like to avoid spending money on service. If we have to, we have to, but I'd like to have another go at it myself before throwing in my grease rag.

Any suggestions on how to get this beastie set right and to stay put?

You probably lost a bearing, or two, when you were repacking the hub ... OR, you may have used the wrong size bearings ...

OR, a bearing has fractured (it happens) ...

OR, the bearings were sufficiently worn that they aren't even close to round and should ALL be replaced (THAT is always the recommendation, BTW) ...

Otherwise, if you have properly tightened the nut against the cone (you need CONE WRENCHES to do this), it should not be loosening in the manner you describe.

BTW. The axle will pull THROUGH the hub ... you only have to loosen ONE side on a Shimano hub (and, others) to regrease the bearings on both sides of the hub.

 

[geardad]

OK..well, I know I didn't lose any of the ball bearings; they're held by a formed metal crown, but I wouldn't be suprised one bit if they're worn and really out of round.

I'll take another look at the freewheel side of things, but to me, it looked as though the freewheel itself prevented the cone on that side from being removed...

still, can't hurt to take that wheel off one more time and have another look.

I think prbly the shop is the next stop; I just don't have all the proper tools...

gd

You probably lost a bearing, or two, when you were repacking the hub ... OR, you may have used the wrong size bearings ...

OR, a bearing has fractured (it happens) ...

OR, the bearings were sufficiently worn that they aren't even close to round and should ALL be replaced (THAT is always the recommendation, BTW) ...

Otherwise, if you have properly tightened the nut against the cone (you need CONE WRENCHES to do this), it should not be loosening in the manner you describe.

BTW. The axle will pull THROUGH the hub ... you only have to loosen ONE side on a Shimano hub (and, others) to regrease the bearings on both sides of the hub.

 

[alfeng]

OK..well, I know I didn't lose any of the ball bearings; they're held by a formed metal crown, but I wouldn't be suprised one bit if they're worn and really out of round.

I'll take another look at the freewheel side of things, but to me, it looked as though the freewheel itself prevented the cone on that side from being removed...

still, can't hurt to take that wheel off one more time and have another look.

I think prbly the shop is the next stop; I just don't have all the proper tools...

gd

Cone wrenches are inexpensive (you will need TWO) ... ball bearings are inexpensive (should be about 7¢ to 10¢[US] each) ... the combined cost will probably be less than the fee your LBS would charge to do the work.

If/When you go to your LBS to buy the cone wrenches & ball bearings, ask him/her what they think the problem is ... you know, a SECOND opinion can't hurt.

ALSO, remember [OR, be advised that] a suitable replacement wheel should actually NOT cost more than about $30 since you can get a PAIR (front & rear) set of inexpensive 700c wheels which use a freehub & cassette off of eBay for less than $50 + cost of cassette (and, shipping).

 

[garage sale GT]

The axle may have loosened after you worked on it because you did not use a cone wrench to tighten the cone against the locknut BUT:

It was probabaly wobbling in the first place because the axle is bent. That's just a weak design.

Also, if your wife rode around with it loose, it may have bent more or gotten damaged at that point due to the fact that the bearings were running wrong.

I personally feel you need to look at the right side bearings and cone because that's where the trouble is likely to be. If they're damaged and you just button it back up, they'll fail again in very short order.

The axle is retained in the hub simply because the right side dust cap is too big to exit the freewheel. The dust cap is a friction fit around the cone. You can just tap the axle out gently and leave the dust cap in there.

Then you can 1) examine the cone for damage 2) examine the axle for straightness and 3) stick your finger or a q-tip in where the bearings are to see if there's any metal bits.

If you later decide to get the wheel serviced you're not making the bike shop's job any tougher or more expensive by doing this.

If the cone and balls are not damaged and the axle is straight you can tap it back in after washing out the old grease and putting in new grease. However, it is "not bloody likely" that the bearings, cone or axle won't be damaged.

 

[garage sale GT]

If you buy a new wheel you will have to pay someone to remove your old freewheel and put it on the new wheel, though I guess you could just buy one on sale for $10 and screw it on the new wheel yourself. The force of pedaling will tighten it plenty.

BTW there's ways to work on the freewheel and RH bearings without special tools.

I spent (wasted) a lot of time getting this old-school **** figured out but wound up switching to freehubs, even retrofitting my mid-80's 27" Schwinn with a Velocity 27" freehub rear wheel. Of course, I weigh 200 and use my bikes over broken pavement, but I can't believe that anyone other than children will get much use out of the old freewheel multi speed hubs.

 

[garage sale GT]

...The axle is retained in the hub simply because the right side dust cap is too big to exit the freewheel. The dust cap is a friction fit around the cone. You can just tap the axle out gently and leave the dust cap in there.

I have worked on a newer freewheel rear hub and now know this information to be potentially wrong. On some bikes the cone simply has a much larger diameter instead of a pressed on dust cap. The cone is too big to exit the hole in the end of the freehweel. If you try to hammer the axle out you won't be able to unless you strip the threads out of the cone or knock the freewheel clean off, i.e. damage something.

However, I have worked on a few '80s and older tenspeeds and they all have the pressed on dust cap, meaning once the left hand cone is removed you can remove the axle by tapping it gently out to the right. Tap gently.

I have found freewheel hubs to work best when you apply a bit of preload to the axle bearings and stay on top of it as the cones wear in. This lets the hub shell bolster the RH cone.

 

[Retro Grouch]

, and put one nut on just tight enough to keep the cone at "kissing" pressure with respect to those bearings.

The locknut has to be quite tight against the cone or it will keep coming loose. You need to hold the cone with a wrench to hold it in place and keep from crushing the bearings and tighten the locknut against it.