Low carb diet and heart disease...



"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "david" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > So you don't eat any bread, rice or fruit? How can that in any way be
easy
> > to follow?
> >
> Nor any potatoes, cakes or croissants either. Of course I'd like to eat
all
> of these things but it's a trade-off between satisfaction of my gourmand tendencies and staying in
> reasonable shape. Giving up a whole lot of
carbs
> is easier for me than one of those low fat-high carb diets; it has worked
in
> the sense that the results are good and I'm able to stick with it. YMMV>

Well that's great for you. I think I would find it very bloody hard. Not that I've found anything
else mind you.
 
I'm someone who finds it hard to overeat. Show me one slice of cheesecake, and I'll tell you it
looks delicious. I'll eat it and enjoy it. If you show me a second slice of cheesecake when I'm done
with the first, I'll find it literally nauseating. I can't imagine eating it. I don't want it and
would find it hard to eat. Nevermind that it is the same cheesecake that I found so appealing only
moments before.

Someone else might have to stop after one bite or wouldn't be able to handle even that. Another
might find 2 slices delicious before getting full. A fourth person might be able to eat the whole 9"
pie without ever getting sick of it. I'm not exhibiting self control when I turn down the second
slice. The person who can eat the whole pie is genuinely hungry for more.

It is terribly unfair to blame the ability to eat in moderation or stick to a diet on character. On
another list, a woman said that she's lost 80 pounds by being gnawingly hungry all the time. She's
keeping the weight off by being hungry. I know I could never do that. I don't have anywhere near
that kind of self control. I don't love fast food, but if I'm hungry and have no other reasonable
choices, I'll stop at Burger King and be glad of it.

I'd love to know more about what causes the differences in people's reactions to food.

I'll tie this in with the thread on French eating habits. We have a joke about our shopping. We like
to say that we avoid anything low fat or fat free. Of course that's not entirely true since I make
it a point to serve fruits and vegetables at every meal, and they're notoriously low fat, but I will
check the fat content of cheese, chocolate and ice cream and make sure I buy the one with the HIGHER
fat content, not the lower. (Exceptions: I buy leaner meats, and I like the way skim milk goes down
with butter cookies.) That's very much the French way of eating. I find that I'm more satisfied with
a smaller amount of exquisitely wonderful cheese than with a larger amount of something not as good.

My question is why this sort of eating works so well for me while Atkins works for the next person
and low-carb for someone else and some people need to count calories.

I wish there were a way of getting a statistically accurate comparison of the way people think about
food. My survey would ask nothing about the types and amounts of foods eaten, nothing about
exercise, but would include questions about how satisfied and happy people feel at meals and after
them, whether they're relaxed when eating, how long it takes them to eat, whether they eat with
friends or cook for other people, how well they like their dining companions (family with good
relationships, family with strained relationships, business associates, alone), even questions about
whether they eat on plates that must be washed or straight out of the cooking utensils, or on
disposables. That data would be combined with the health data about weight, blood pressure,
cholesterol. I believe the research would show that people who are happiest about food, who look
forward to meals the most, who enjoy their dining compainions the most, who enjoy cooking for
themselves and others, who make eating into a nice ritual instead of something to be gotten through
are also the healthiest regardless of the caloric content of the food or the source of those
calories (fats, carbs, proteins).

--Lia
 
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:30:10 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2004-01-29, Katra <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi fiber diet...
>
>I guaran-damn-tee you Atkins IS high fiber! Hadda buy a chainsaw.

The problem is most people focus in on the initial high protein and high fat first phase and forget
that portion is just a few weeks long. They seem to assume you eat like that forever.
 
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:48:41 -0800, "Nexis" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Actually, you don't have to be overweight to have insulin resistance. There are many things that
>are believed to be precursors, including polycystic ovarian syndrome. In most cases, low carbing
>isn't enough and may not help. The key is less about the number of carbs than the type. Highly
>processed flour and sugar based foods are the worst. I honestly believe the abundance of them
>available is at least partially to blame for the increase in many health problems, not the least of
>which is Type II diabetes, and insulin resistance.

Which is what diets like the South Beach diet are about, reducing the amount of quickly digested
sugar and starches from the diet. It is a diet the fits well for people with insulin resistance.
 
In article <JPaSb.1987$IF1.1075@fed1read01>, "Nexis" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "Katra" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:KatraMungBean-
> [email protected]...
> > In article <5bZRb.1053$IF1.576@fed1read01>, "Nexis" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Some day people will figure out that people are individuals, and as individuals they need
> > > different things. What works for one person will
> not
> > > work for every person...it's that simple. In order to have the best
> health
> > > you can, you have to find what works for *you*. Not what works for Bill,
> Bob
> > > and Amanda.
> > >
> > > kimberly
> > >
> >
> > Excellent point... ;-) Just get checked out. Many grossly obese people have insulin resistance.
> > It's as common as dirt. Low carbing seems to be the easiest answer to that problem.
> >
> > Find a decent family doc or internest that will work with you for the best results!
> >
> > K.
> >
>
> Actually, you don't have to be overweight to have insulin resistance. There are many things that
> are believed to be precursors, including polycystic ovarian syndrome. In most cases, low carbing
> isn't enough and may not help. The key is less about the number of carbs than the type. Highly
> processed flour and sugar based foods are the worst. I honestly believe the abundance of them
> available is at least partially to blame for the increase in many health problems, not the least
> of which is Type II diabetes, and insulin resistance.

Sorry. Should have specified starch and sugar. ;-o My bad. I'm a big fan of "green carbs" so fresh
baby spinach, Swiss and rainbow chard, bok choy, and savoy cabbage have become regulars in our diet.
:) Greens go great stir fry.

> I would encourage anyone who is experiencing any of the following to be checked for insulin
> resistance and possibly diabetes: frequent bouts of exhaustion frequent headaches lack of energy
> frequent thirst dry or pasty feeling mouth lower back pain (can be a sign of kidney problems)
> blurred vision (does *not* need to be constant; can be intermittent) tingling in hands or feet-
> can be as little as a toe, or the whole appendage frequent urge to urinate feeling
> dizzy/lightheaded after an extended period between meals
>
> kimberly

Excellent advice. :)

The tingling thing tho' can also be associated with low Magnesium levels. That can also be improved
by an increase in greens which are high in Magnesium. Be careful tho' as those can also be high in
Oxalates which can contribute to Oxalate kidney stones.

Drink lotsa water. That is good advice for ANY diet! 2 to 3 liters per day.

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
"Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:S2bSb.138114$5V2.708815@attbi_s53...
>
>
> I'm someone who finds it hard to overeat. Show me one slice of cheesecake, and I'll tell you it
> looks delicious. I'll eat it and enjoy it. If you show me a second slice of cheesecake when I'm
> done with the first, I'll find it literally nauseating. I can't imagine eating it. I don't want it
> and would find it hard to eat. Nevermind that it is the same cheesecake that I found so appealing
> only moments before.
>
>
> Someone else might have to stop after one bite or wouldn't be able to handle even that. Another
> might find 2 slices delicious before getting full. A fourth person might be able to eat the whole
> 9" pie without ever getting sick of it. I'm not exhibiting self control when I turn down the
> second slice. The person who can eat the whole pie is genuinely hungry for more.
>
>
> It is terribly unfair to blame the ability to eat in moderation or stick to a diet on character.
> On another list, a woman said that she's lost 80 pounds by being gnawingly hungry all the time.
> She's keeping the weight off by being hungry. I know I could never do that. I don't have anywhere
> near that kind of self control. I don't love fast food, but if I'm hungry and have no other
> reasonable choices, I'll stop at Burger King and be glad of it.
>
>

Bravo! The idea that character has anything to do with eating habits or weight is pitifully
ridiculous yet all too wide spread. I suspect it has its origins in the Puritan notions that
pleasure is bad and self-denial is good. CHrist-on-crutches, what nonsense! I know quite a few
chubby gourmands who are intelligent, educated, hard working, honest, and reliable. I have also met
numerous slender folks who are stupid, dishonest, conniving, and petty. These are real measures of
character, not eating or weight.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the **** from my email address before using.
 
In article <S2bSb.138114$5V2.708815@attbi_s53>,
Julia Altshuler <[email protected]> wrote:

<snipped>
>
>
> I wish there were a way of getting a statistically accurate comparison of the way people think
> about food. My survey would ask nothing about the types and amounts of foods eaten, nothing about
> exercise, but would include questions about how satisfied and happy people feel at meals and after
> them, whether they're relaxed when eating, how long it takes them to eat, whether they eat with
> friends or cook for other people, how well they like their dining companions (family with good
> relationships, family with strained relationships, business associates, alone), even questions
> about whether they eat on plates that must be washed or straight out of the cooking utensils, or
> on disposables. That data would be combined with the health data about weight, blood pressure,
> cholesterol. I believe the research would show that people who are happiest about food, who look
> forward to meals the most, who enjoy their dining compainions the most, who enjoy cooking for
> themselves and others, who make eating into a nice ritual instead of something to be gotten
> through are also the healthiest regardless of the caloric content of the food or the source of
> those calories (fats, carbs, proteins).
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

You bring up some excellent points. ;-) The only thing I have to add here about the whole will power
thing is that I used to be able to sit and eat a whole pound of chocolate.

I can't do that now! One or two bites and I'm done. The very thought of eating more makes me
nauseous. :p Same with just about any sweets.

Same goes for the constant availability of donuts and various types of cake at work. At one time I'd
have been overwhelmingly tempted.

Now I look at them, shrug and walk off.

Was it my initial changes to a low carb diet that are responsible for my current lack of interest in
high sugar foods where I used to not be able to resist them??? It does not take any willpower now. I
am truly not the least bit interested in consuming them.

I don't know. :) I'm curious about theories about this phenomenon. Same goes for my loss of
interest in high sodium foods.

Is it psychological or physiological?

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
x-no-archive: yes

kimberly wrote:

>Some day people will figure out that people are individuals, and as individuals they need different
>things. What works for one person will not work for every person...it's that simple. In order to
>have the best health you can, you have to find what works for *you*. Not what works for Bill, Bob
>and Amanda.
>
>kimberly

Yes!

Naomi D.
 
Dan Abel wrote:
> Katra wrote:
>
> > Thing is, new evidence shows how a low fat, high carb diet is killing people.

That's an extreme view.

> > I've known several myself that went on that type of diet at the recommendation of their personal
> > physicians that ended up having to go on statins (which are very hard on the liver) because the
> > diet changes DID NOT WORK!!!

Saying a diet didn't work is hugely different from saying is kills.

> In my opinion, any time you see the word "high" in front of a food type that has lots of calories,
> you are talking about a diet for those who need to gain weight.

If and only if "high" means what you think.

Let's say I'm a standard issue At-kid eating 1800 calories fixes (when averaged across a week but
wide variation day to day). Before starting Atkins I maybe at 80 grams of fat (border betwen low and
not-low), 100ish grams of protein (neither low nor high) and a lot of carbs fill make up the rest of
the calories. Then at teh same total 1800 calories and the same 100ish grams of protein I start
Atkins and switch to 20 grams of carb (low) and the rest fat grams to fill out the 1800 calorie
total, around 140ish. Is 140ish grams of fat "high"? When within a reasonable 1800 calorie daily
total? It is by the standard Atkins definition.

But how many people read "high" and think it is added on top of the calorie total not worked within
a fixed calorie total? Yet their thinking isn't what Atkins is about.

> For my second opinion, I think that whether a diet works well for a person depends more on
> psychology than anything else.

Depends on the person. One lesson of Atkins is that swings of blood sugar from insulin levels from
dietary carbs is physiological not psychological for a fair percentage of people. High carb food
does trigger cravings for them, low carb food solves the cravings. Another lesson of Atkins is that
some people have addictions to certain foods as a result of intolerance reactions. Once these people
find out the trigger food and avoid it, they no longer have cravings. Neither lesson works for
everyone, but one or both work for a lot of people.

In my case my problem with low fat was wheat. I'm intolerant of anything with wheat and I have an
addictive pattern of behavior to anything with wheat in it. Any diet that pushes me to eat pasta,
will trigger binges where I eat all of the pasta on the table and then move on to everything else.
Others react to corn, others have lesser reactions to assorted stuff. And many people are free of
this issie and for them it is indeed psychological.

> If Atkins or some variation works well for you, that's great. That doesn't mean it will work well
> for someone else.

Right. Try stuff until you find what does work for you, don't knock what works for others.

> Personally, I lose weight by consciously eating more food. At first I thought that a little self-
> control in eating less would work. I found that I *had* no self-control. Attempting to eat less
> just meant that I ate more of the high calorie stuff. So, I switched to eating more. I would fill
> my plate with plain vegies and have extra servings of salad. By filling my stomach like this, I
> could more easily resist the temptation to take another serving of the high calorie main dish.

That's a strategy that wouldn't work for me. If the high calorie dish had wheat in it, it wouldn't
matter if I had room. Addictive behavior pattern with a physical trigger.
 
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:20:50 -0600, Katra
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't know. :) I'm curious about theories about this phenomenon. Same goes for my loss of
>interest in high sodium foods.
>
>Is it psychological or physiological?
>
>K.

when i was in high school, almost every day i had an ice cream sandwich and a piece of cherry pie
for lunch. now i can barely look them in the face.

your pal, blake
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Most people overlook the fact that the studies that showed high-fat diets to be unhealth did
> not limit carbs in any way. There's a lot of evidence that the amount of carbs you eat has a
> big effect on what your body does with the fats in your diet and whether or not they impact
> your health.

Gods. So true!!! Did ANY of the "high fat" studies restrict carbs in any way???

>
> The Atkins diet is often misrepresented as "eat all you want of any high-fat food." This is not
> true. Neither is the claim that Atkins is a low-vegetable diet. Atkins includes tons of vegetables
> with a few high-carb ones (potatoes, carrots, corn, for example) restricted. Atkins does not claim
> to be the only effective diet. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who have the "fat is bad"
> mantra permanently embedded in their small brains that they refuse to face the evidence.

Yep. :)

Kat

>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the **** from my email address before using.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:S2bSb.138114$5V2.708815@attbi_s53...
> >
> >
> > I'm someone who finds it hard to overeat. Show me one slice of cheesecake, and I'll tell you it
> > looks delicious. I'll eat it and enjoy it. If you show me a second slice of cheesecake when I'm
> > done with the first, I'll find it literally nauseating. I can't imagine eating it. I don't want
> > it and would find it hard to eat. Nevermind that it is the same cheesecake that I found so
> > appealing only moments before.
> >
> >
> > Someone else might have to stop after one bite or wouldn't be able to handle even that. Another
> > might find 2 slices delicious before getting full. A fourth person might be able to eat the
> > whole 9" pie without ever getting sick of it. I'm not exhibiting self control when I turn down
> > the second slice. The person who can eat the whole pie is genuinely hungry for more.
> >
> >
> > It is terribly unfair to blame the ability to eat in moderation or stick to a diet on character.
> > On another list, a woman said that she's lost 80 pounds by being gnawingly hungry all the time.
> > She's keeping the weight off by being hungry. I know I could never do that. I don't have
> > anywhere near that kind of self control. I don't love fast food, but if I'm hungry and have no
> > other reasonable choices, I'll stop at Burger King and be glad of it.
> >
> >
>
> Bravo! The idea that character has anything to do with eating habits or weight is pitifully
> ridiculous yet all too wide spread. I suspect it has its origins in the Puritan notions that
> pleasure is bad and self-denial is good. CHrist-on-crutches, what nonsense! I know quite a few
> chubby gourmands who are intelligent, educated, hard working, honest, and reliable. I have also
> met numerous slender folks who are stupid, dishonest, conniving, and petty. These are real
> measures of character, not eating or weight.

Yep. Pain and self deprivation are virtuous...

What a crock. ;-)

K.

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra