Low Vitamin D Status May Contribute to Development of Congestive Heart Failure



A Mugnificent Desolation <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 8 Jan 2004 17:40:05 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Life has lessons, and if we do not experience maturity then where do we get them?

> Scriptures for one.

But don't we get that, too, when mature, and then maybe we see it in a new light?

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Brian Sandle wrote:

>>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > Totality of Lunar Mu_n Eclipsed wrote:
>>>
>>> >> On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 12:06:29 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Understandably because Matti's not a doctor.
>>> >>
>>> >> Do we know what Matti is? Outside of a voracious Medline addict.
>>>
>>> > He is doomed until he accepts Christ as his Lord and Savior.
>>>
>>> It sort of sounds as if you are implying that though medical science has knowledge of how to
>>> heal, doctors are not going to do it always, so patients better just get ready to meet their
>>> maker, perhaps for an afterworld.

>> Jesus says through John 8:

>> 51 "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

> It sort of seems that it may be easier to keep it as the maturity of years comes to us.

The Jews seemed to express that, too, to Jesus, quesitoning that he had seen Abraham before age
fifty. Jesus replied he was before Abraham, Then he hid from the stoning.

Then some more light may be cast upon this matter as we get to Chapter 9. Jesus and the dsciples
came upon a blind man and the disciples asked Jesus whether the man himself had sinned, or his
parents, that he was born blind. Does that mean they believed in reincarnation and karma, or are
they asking about original sin? Or is original sin a way of speaking about individual/group karma
beyond present comprehension?

Jesus answered that it was neither the man who sinned, nor his parents, but it was in order that the
works of God might be manifested in him. The he gave words to the effect that his mission must be
accomplished while he is bringing the light of day, and he healed the man with a spit and clay paste
on his eyes.

>> May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here in SMC.

May Matti and all continue to help us open our eyes.

We are born with defects that the works of God may be made manifest. As I said very likely any
widespread affliction has its genes beneficial to those who have a single copy (heterozygotes).

But let us not force the gluten-intolerant to eat gluten, saying the Lord will fix it? And if forms
of vitamin D are currently not in the light of some doctors, let us try to cast some light.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
>> On 8 Jan 2004 17:40:05 -0600, Brian Sandle
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Life has lessons, and if we do not experience maturity then where do we get them?

>> Scriptures for one.

On 10 Jan 2004 05:43:26 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:

>But don't we get that, too, when mature, and then maybe we see it in a new light?

Certainly but that is not what I was commenting on.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971110.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
Volcanic Io M_un <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 8 Jan 2004 17:40:05 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>Life has lessons, and if we do not experience maturity then where do we get them?

>>> Scriptures for one.

> On 10 Jan 2004 05:43:26 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:

>>But don't we get that, too, when mature, and then maybe we see it in a new light?

> Certainly but that is not what I was commenting on.

I was hoping to get a comment on how hard mankind should strive to extend life, thereby having a
chance to develop maturity to understand the scriptures better.

Andrew seems to imply that we should obey God now and all will be OK. That seems to be even to the
extent of not looking further into possible life-prolonging aspects of types of vitamin D
metabolism.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
<snip>
> > The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.
>
> Then it is no longer blindness.
>

It is to the untruthful.

> > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.
>
> I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and therefore
> need no savior.

If you did not before, you should now from witnessing the behavior of those who would represent
mankind here on SMC.

> Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved, anyway.

You do not see any point in being saved from death?

> As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.

And yet, a democracy has lords(leaders).

> > This is my heartfelt wish.
>
> Well, we don't always get what we wish for.

It remains God's will.

> > You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
> >
>
> I appreciate that.

You are welcome :)

> Thorsten

Would suggest you attend a Christian church, study the Bible with others, pray about it...

May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Truly, I will continue to pray for you, Thorsten.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
http:/www.heartmdphd.com/
 
Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > > >
> <snip>
> > > > > > The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then it is no longer blindness.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is to the untruthful.
> > > >
> > > > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and
> > > > > therefore need no savior.
> > > >
> > > > If you did not before, you should now from witnessing the behavior of those who would
> > > > represent mankind here on SMC.
> > >
> > > Some people show less than perfect behavior here, that much is true. That's the way humans
> > > are. A problem here is that people don't see the others, don't know them personally and tend
> > > to be more rude than they would be otherwise. If they would come to know each other in real
> > > life they would likely have more respect for each other.
> > >
> >
> > But they would harbor the same thoughts... they just wouldn't express it because they may suffer
> > actual physical harm if they do.
>
> To some degree this may be right, but on the other hand, things probably wouldn't have gone as far
> in real life in the first place.

But it has. Look to the Middle East.

> If one side does not express their thoughts, the other side has less reason to harbor bad thoughts
> and the other way round.

If they think they can get away with it (ie terrorists), they will try.

> > >
> > > However, I fail to see how anything people have done here can be viewed as a "sin" in the way
> > > the Bible or fundamentalist Christians define it: a sin that justifies their eternal damnation
> > > if not saved by Christ.
> > >
> >
> > Think back to the original sin. Disobeying God is enough to justify eternal damnation.
>
> I don't believe in the original sin.

Even here in this world, if/when you go before a judge, which matters more:

What the judge believes or what you believe?

> > >
> > > > > Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved,
> > > > > anyway.
> > > >
> > > > You do not see any point in being saved from death?
> > >
> > > As far as I know, Christians have to die just like other folk.
> >
> > Not according to God's Word.
> >
> > > Sometimes they even kill each other.
> >
> > Those who have Christ in their hearts are rendered incapable of killing.
>
> This is just a twisting of words.

No it is not.

> Of course no Christian can kill someone if you claim that everyone who does it is no Christian.

Those who have Christ in their hearts are rendered incapable of killing.

> The question is whether people raised as Christians commit less crimes than other people and I see
> no evidence that this might be the case.

Those who have Christ in their hearts are rendered incapable of killing.

> > > So I see no evidence at all that anybody has been saved from death due to his faith in Christ.
> > >
> >
> > You will see the evidence when you die, Thorsten, but then it will be too late for you.
>
> It's unlikely that I will see evidence for anything when I die, because without my eyes I won't be
> able to see

Do you see when you dream?

And when you do dream, are your eyes opened or closed?

> and without my brain I won't be able to think.

Your soul has a consciousness that is extracorporeal.

> > >
> > > > > As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.
> > > >
> > > > And yet, a democracy has lords(leaders).
> > >
> > > That are elected for a certain time and are usually replaced after some years. Anyway, I
> > > certainly won't call any of our politicians "Lord".
> > >
> >
> > But the respect you will have in your heart for the leader of your country if he were to walk
> > into the room where you are at is the same as calling that person "Lord."
>
> Perhaps there is some difference between the political culture of our countries. The last time we
> called a politician our leader ("Fuehrer"), things didn't go too well, mildly put, so we are not
> keen to repeat this experience.

Specifically, if President Johannes Rau were to walk into your home, the feeling you will have in
your heart for him would be the same as calling him "Lord."

You remain in my prayers, Thorsten.

May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
 
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> <snip>
> > > The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.
> >
> > Then it is no longer blindness.
> >
>
> It is to the untruthful.
>
> > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.
> >
> > I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and
> > therefore need no savior.
>
> If you did not before, you should now from witnessing the behavior of those who would represent
> mankind here on SMC.

Some people show less than perfect behavior here, that much is true. That's the way humans are. A
problem here is that people don't see the others, don't know them personally and tend to be more
rude than they would be otherwise. If they would come to know each other in real life they would
likely have more respect for each other.

However, I fail to see how anything people have done here can be viewed as a "sin" in the way the
Bible or fundamentalist Christians define it: a sin that justifies their eternal damnation if not
saved by Christ.

> > Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved, anyway.
>
> You do not see any point in being saved from death?

As far as I know, Christians have to die just like other folk. Sometimes they even kill each other.
So I see no evidence at all that anybody has been saved from death due to his faith in Christ.

> > As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.
>
> And yet, a democracy has lords(leaders).

That are elected for a certain time and are usually replaced after some years. Anyway, I certainly
won't call any of our politicians "Lord".

> > > This is my heartfelt wish.
> >
> > Well, we don't always get what we wish for.
>
> It remains God's will.

I would think that the will of an almighty entity always comes true. So either God is not almighty
or else it is not his will for me to believe in him, at least not today.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
 
Thorsten Schier wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > <snip>
> > > > The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.
> > >
> > > Then it is no longer blindness.
> > >
> >
> > It is to the untruthful.
> >
> > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.
> > >
> > > I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and
> > > therefore need no savior.
> >
> > If you did not before, you should now from witnessing the behavior of those who would represent
> > mankind here on SMC.
>
> Some people show less than perfect behavior here, that much is true. That's the way humans are. A
> problem here is that people don't see the others, don't know them personally and tend to be more
> rude than they would be otherwise. If they would come to know each other in real life they would
> likely have more respect for each other.
>

But they would harbor the same thoughts... they just wouldn't express it because they may suffer
actual physical harm if they do.

>
> However, I fail to see how anything people have done here can be viewed as a "sin" in the way the
> Bible or fundamentalist Christians define it: a sin that justifies their eternal damnation if not
> saved by Christ.
>

Think back to the original sin. Disobeying God is enough to justify eternal damnation.

>
> > > Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved, anyway.
> >
> > You do not see any point in being saved from death?
>
> As far as I know, Christians have to die just like other folk.

Not according to God's Word.

> Sometimes they even kill each other.

Those who have Christ in their hearts are rendered incapable of killing.

> So I see no evidence at all that anybody has been saved from death due to his faith in Christ.
>

You will see the evidence when you die, Thorsten, but then it will be too late for you.

>
> > > As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.
> >
> > And yet, a democracy has lords(leaders).
>
> That are elected for a certain time and are usually replaced after some years. Anyway, I certainly
> won't call any of our politicians "Lord".
>

But the respect you will have in your heart for the leader of your country if he were to walk into
the room where you are at is the same as calling that person "Lord."

>
> > > > This is my heartfelt wish.
> > >
> > > Well, we don't always get what we wish for.
> >
> > It remains God's will.
>
> I would think that the will of an almighty entity always comes true.

It is His will that we have free will. In the big scheme of things, His will is realized. On an
individual basis, He still allows us our free will. All the permutations of how we might exercise
free will are accounted for in His plan for us. This has been revealed to me through prayer. God is
that great.

> So either God is not almighty or else it is not his will for me to believe in him, at least
> not today.
>

Neither would be true.

>
> Thorsten
>

You remain in my prayers, Thorsten.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Thorsten Schier <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > <snip>
> > > > > The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.
> > > >
> > > > Then it is no longer blindness.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It is to the untruthful.
> > >
> > > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and
> > > > therefore need no savior.
> > >
> > > If you did not before, you should now from witnessing the behavior of those who would
> > > represent mankind here on SMC.
> >
> > Some people show less than perfect behavior here, that much is true. That's the way humans are.
> > A problem here is that people don't see the others, don't know them personally and tend to be
> > more rude than they would be otherwise. If they would come to know each other in real life they
> > would likely have more respect for each other.
> >
>
> But they would harbor the same thoughts... they just wouldn't express it because they may suffer
> actual physical harm if they do.

To some degree this may be right, but on the other hand, things probably wouldn't have gone as far
in real life in the first place. If one side does not express their thoughts, the other side has
less reason to harbor bad thoughts and the other way round.

> >
> > However, I fail to see how anything people have done here can be viewed as a "sin" in the way
> > the Bible or fundamentalist Christians define it: a sin that justifies their eternal damnation
> > if not saved by Christ.
> >
>
> Think back to the original sin. Disobeying God is enough to justify eternal damnation.

I don't believe in the original sin.

> >
> > > > Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved, anyway.
> > >
> > > You do not see any point in being saved from death?
> >
> > As far as I know, Christians have to die just like other folk.
>
> Not according to God's Word.
>
> > Sometimes they even kill each other.
>
> Those who have Christ in their hearts are rendered incapable of killing.

This is just a twisting of words. Of course no Christian can kill someone if you claim that everyone
who does it is no Christian. The question is whether people raised as Christians commit less crimes
than other people and I see no evidence that this might be the case.

> > So I see no evidence at all that anybody has been saved from death due to his faith in Christ.
> >
>
> You will see the evidence when you die, Thorsten, but then it will be too late for you.

It's unlikely that I will see evidence for anything when I die, because without my eyes I won't be
able to see and without my brain I won't be able to think.

> >
> > > > As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.
> > >
> > > And yet, a democracy has lords(leaders).
> >
> > That are elected for a certain time and are usually replaced after some years. Anyway, I
> > certainly won't call any of our politicians "Lord".
> >
>
> But the respect you will have in your heart for the leader of your country if he were to walk into
> the room where you are at is the same as calling that person "Lord."

Perhaps there is some difference between the political culture of our countries. The last time we
called a politician our leader ("Fuehrer"), things didn't go too well, mildly put, so we are not
keen to repeat this experience.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
 
Thorsten Schier wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ? "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: ? ?
> > > [...]
> > > > ? ? May you also find yourself being more truthful in 2004. ? ? May you learn that not
> > > > everyone who disagrees with you is "untruthful". ?
> > > >
> > > > Already know it.
> > >
> > > You make a good job hiding that.
> >
> > >
> >
> > The untruthful are blind to the truth.
> >
>
> In which case they would be ignorant rather than untruthful.
>

That would be the defense of the untruthful.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ? "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: ? ?
> > > > [...]
> > > > > ? ? May you also find yourself being more truthful in 2004. ? ? May you learn that not
> > > > > everyone who disagrees with you is "untruthful". ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Already know it.
> > > >
> > > > You make a good job hiding that.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The untruthful are blind to the truth.
> > >
> >
> > In which case they would be ignorant rather than untruthful.
> >
>
> That would be the defense of the untruthful.
>

No, this is the logic conclusion from what you wrote.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
 
Thorsten Schier wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ? "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: ? ?
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > > ? ? May you also find yourself being more truthful in 2004. ? ? May you learn that not
> > > > > > everyone who disagrees with you is "untruthful". ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Already know it.
> > > > >
> > > > > You make a good job hiding that.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The untruthful are blind to the truth.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In which case they would be ignorant rather than untruthful.
> > >
> >
> > That would be the defense of the untruthful.
> >
>
> No, this is the logic conclusion from what you wrote.

The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.

May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.

This is my heartfelt wish.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ? "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb: ? ?
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > ? ? May you also find yourself being more truthful in 2004. ? ? May you learn that not
> > > > > > > everyone who disagrees with you is "untruthful". ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Already know it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You make a good job hiding that.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The untruthful are blind to the truth.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > In which case they would be ignorant rather than untruthful.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That would be the defense of the untruthful.
> > >
> >
> > No, this is the logic conclusion from what you wrote.
>
> The blindness of the untruthful is feigned.

Then it is no longer blindness.

> May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004, Thorsten.

I don't believe in the concept that mankind is "sinful" and doomed without salvation and therefore
need no savior. Nor do I believe in any kind of afterlife, so I don't see the point in being saved,
anyway. As I believe in democracy I don't need a lord either.

> This is my heartfelt wish.

Well, we don't always get what we wish for.

> You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
>

I appreciate that.

Thorsten

--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"

(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
 
On 11 Jan 2004 21:50:14 -0600, Brian Sandle
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I was hoping to get a comment on how hard mankind should strive to extend life, thereby having a
>chance to develop maturity to understand the scriptures better.

Works for me.

>Andrew seems to imply that we should obey God now and all will be OK. That seems to be even to the
>extent of not looking further into possible life-prolonging aspects of types of vitamin D
>metabolism.

Well, I am not much on the magic effects of individual vit "therapy".

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971110.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> Brian Sandle wrote:
>> I was hoping to get a comment on how hard mankind should strive to extend life, thereby having a
>> chance to develop maturity to understand the scriptures better.
>>

> Each person should work hard to realize the full potential of the gifts/abilities that God has so
> generously given them. Whether it is God's plan for us to extend our lifespan here in this world
> is up to God. It is written in the Holy Bible, that by accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior, we
> will be given eternal life. God's Word is clear to those who would study it.

How do you distinguish between that and the promise of a lovely place in heaven to Islamic child
soldiers who then are prepared to die for the cause, the jihad.

>>
>> Andrew seems to imply that we should obey God now and all will be OK.

> Part of obeying God is to follow His plan.

In order to obey God it is necessary to be able to distinguish between what is His Word and what is
thought to be.

>> That seems to be even to the extent of not looking further into possible life-prolonging aspects
>> of types of vitamin D metabolism.
>>

> That would depend on God.

In the British Navy in the days of sailing ships many sailors used to get scurvy. Even when it was
knwon that some veges prevent it there was resistance against taking them on journeys. One might
attribute this problem to God, or one might assume that man ought to have known better. Possibly
same with vitamin D questions.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
On 12 Jan 2004 14:57:48 -0600, Brian Sandle
<[email protected]> wrote:

>How do you distinguish between that and the promise of a lovely place in heaven to Islamic child
>soldiers who then are prepared to die for the cause, the jihad.

By asking for God to give me the knowledge.

>In order to obey God it is necessary to be able to distinguish between what is His Word and what is
>thought to be.

Yes.

>In the British Navy in the days of sailing ships many sailors used to get scurvy. Even when it was
>knwon that some veges prevent it there was resistance against taking them on journeys. One might
>attribute this problem to God, or one might assume that man ought to have known better.

Attribute this problem to Man who refused God's help.

>Possibly same with vitamin D questions.

I don't see even the closest relationship.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010301.html Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
Brian Sandle wrote:

> Volcanic Io M_un <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> On 8 Jan 2004 17:40:05 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>Life has lessons, and if we do not experience maturity then where do we get them?
>
> >>> Scriptures for one.
>
> > On 10 Jan 2004 05:43:26 -0600, Brian Sandle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>But don't we get that, too, when mature, and then maybe we see it in a new light?
>
> > Certainly but that is not what I was commenting on.
>
> I was hoping to get a comment on how hard mankind should strive to extend life, thereby having a
> chance to develop maturity to understand the scriptures better.
>

Each person should work hard to realize the full potential of the gifts/abilities that God has so
generously given them. Whether it is God's plan for us to extend our lifespan here in this world is
up to God. It is written in the Holy Bible, that by accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior, we will
be given eternal life. God's Word is clear to those who would study it.

>
> Andrew seems to imply that we should obey God now and all will be OK.

Part of obeying God is to follow His plan.

> That seems to be even to the extent of not looking further into possible life-prolonging aspects
> of types of vitamin D metabolism.
>

That would depend on God.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
Brian Sandle wrote:

> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Brian Sandle wrote:
> >> I was hoping to get a comment on how hard mankind should strive to extend life, thereby having
> >> a chance to develop maturity to understand the scriptures better.
> >>
>
> > Each person should work hard to realize the full potential of the gifts/abilities that God has
> > so generously given them. Whether it is God's plan for us to extend our lifespan here in this
> > world is up to God. It is written in the Holy Bible, that by accepting Christ as our Lord and
> > Savior, we will be given eternal life. God's Word is clear to those who would study it.
>
> How do you distinguish between that and the promise of a lovely place in heaven to Islamic child
> soldiers who then are prepared to die for the cause, the jihad.
>

By reading the Holy Bible, which is the Word of God, studying the Word of God, and praying to God.

>
> >>
> >> Andrew seems to imply that we should obey God now and all will be OK.
>
> > Part of obeying God is to follow His plan.
>
> In order to obey God it is necessary to be able to distinguish between what is His Word and what
> is thought to be.
>

Correct.

>
> >> That seems to be even to the extent of not looking further into possible life-prolonging
> >> aspects of types of vitamin D metabolism.
> >>
>
> > That would depend on God.
>
> In the British Navy in the days of sailing ships many sailors used to get scurvy. Even when it was
> knwon that some veges prevent it there was resistance against taking them on journeys. One might
> attribute this problem to God, or one might assume that man ought to have known better.

When you know better but do something else, this would be free will and not God's will.

>
> Possibly same with vitamin D questions.
>

Correct.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
12 Jan 2004 18:04:33 -0600 in article
<[email protected]> Brian Sandle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Are there differing forms of vitamin D?
>
Yes:

- Vitamin D2 a.k.a ergocalciferol
- Vitamin D3 a.k.a colecalciferol
- 25(OH)D a.k.a. calcidiol
- 1,25(OH)2D a.k.a. calcitriol

D2 is mostly found i plants and D3 in animal products. D3 is more effective than D2, see

Trang HM, Cole DE, Rubin LA, Pierratos A, Siu S, Vieth R. Evidence that vitamin D3 increases serum
25-hydroxyvitamin D more efficiently than does vitamin D2. Am J Clin Nutr. 1998 Oct;68(4):854-8.
<URL:http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/854.pdf> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fc-
gi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=9771862&dopt=Abstract>

Until now it was thought that calcitriol is the only active form of vitamin D, but recently Lou et
al. from Finland found out that calcidiol is also active and possibly even more important than
calcitriol.

Lou YR, Laaksi I, Syvala H, Blauer M, Tammela TL, Ylikomi T, Tuohimaa P. 25-Hydroxyvitamin D3 is
an active hormone in human primary prostatic stromal cells. FASEB J. 2003 Dec 4 [Epub ahead of
print] <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=146570-
05&dopt=Abstract>

In another recent Finnish study Tuohimaa et al. found that also high levels (>= 80 nmol/L) of
calcidiol are associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer:

Tuohimaa P, Tenkanen L, Ahonen M, Lumme S, Jellum E, Hallmans G, Stattin P, Harvei S, Hakulinen T,
Luostarinen T, Dillner J, Lehtinen M, Hakama M. Both high and low levels of blood vitamin D are
associated with a higher prostate cancer risk: a longitudinal, nested case-control study in the
Nordic countries. Int J Cancer. 2004 Jan 1;108(1):104-8. PMID: 14618623 [PubMed - indexed for
MEDLINE] <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=146186-
23&dopt=Abstract>

--
Matti Narkia
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> Brian Sandle wrote:
>>
>> In the British Navy in the days of sailing ships many sailors used to get scurvy. Even when it
>> was knwon that some veges prevent it there was resistance against taking them on journeys. One
>> might attribute this problem to God, or one might assume that man ought to have known better.

> When you know better but do something else, this would be free will and not God's will.

>>
>> Possibly same with vitamin D questions.
>>

> Correct.

Linkname: Barnes & Noble.com - Diffusion of Innovations URL http://btobsearch.barnesandnoble.com-
/textbooks/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?sourceid=00395996645644787198&btob=Y&ean=9780743222099&dis-
playonly=EXC [...] Controlling Scurvy in the British Navy

Many technologists believe that advantageous innovations will sell themselves, that the obvious
benefits of a new idea will be widely realized by potential adopters, and that the innovation
will diffuse rapidly. Seldom is this the case. Most innovations, in fact, diffuse at a
disappointingly slow rate, at least in the eyes of the inventors and technologists who create
the innovations and promote them to others.

Scurvy control illustrates how slowly an obviously beneficial innovation spreads. In the early
days of long sea voyages, scurvy killed more sailors than did warfare, accidents, and other
causes. For instance, of Vasco da Gama's crew of 160 men who sailed with him around the Cape of
Good Hope in 1497, 100 died of scurvy. In 1601, an English sea captain, James Lancaster,
conducted an experiment to evaluate the effectiveness of lemon juice in preventing scurvy.
Captain Lancaster commanded four ships that sailed from England on a voyage to India. He served
three teaspoonfuls of lemon juice every day to the sailors in one of his four ships. These men
stayed healthy. The other three ships constituted Lancaster's "control group," as their sailors
were not given any lemon juice. On the other three ships, by the halfway point in the journey,
110 out of 278 sailors had died from scurvy. So many of these sailors got scurvy that Lancaster
had to transfer men from his "treatment" ship in order to staff the three other ships for the
remainder of the voyage.

These results were so clear that one would have expected the British Navy to promptly adopt
citrus juice for scurvy prevention on all ships. Not until 1747, about 150 years later, did
James Lind, a British Navy physician who knew of Lancaster's results, carry out another
experiment on the HMS Salisbury. To each scurvy patient on this ship, Lind prescribed either
two oranges and one lemon or one of five other supplements: a half pint of sea water, six
spoonfuls of vinegar, a quart of cider, nutmeg, or seventy-five drops of vitriol elixir. The
scurvy patients who got the citrus fruits were cured in a few days and were able to help Dr.
Lind care for the other patients. Unfortunately, the supply of oranges and lemons was exhausted
in six days.

Certainly, with this further solid evidence of the ability of citrus fruits to combat scurvy,
one would expect the British Navy to have adopted this innovation for all ship's crews on long
sea voyages. In fact, it did so, but not until 1795, forty-eight years later, when scurvy was
immediately wiped out. After only seventy more years, in 1865, the British Board of Trade
adopted a similar policy and eradicated scurvy in the merchant marine.

Why were the authorities so slow to adopt the idea of citrus for scurvy prevention? Other,
competing remedies for scurvy were also being proposed, and each such cure had its champions.
For example, Captain Cook's reports from his voyages in the Pacific did not provide support for
curing scurvy with citrus fruits. Further, Dr. Lind was not a prominent figure in the field of
naval medicine, and so his experimental findings did not get much attention. While scurvy
prevention was generally resisted for years by the British Navy, other innovations, such as new
ships and new guns, were readily accepted. So the Admiralty did not resist all innovations.

Obviously, more than just the relative advantages of an innovation, even when its benefits are
clearly demonstrated, is necessary for its diffusion and adoption. The reader may think that
such slow diffusion could only have happened in the distant past, before the contemporary era
of scientific, experimental evaluations of innovations. On the contrary; consider the present-
day case of the nondiffusion of the Dvorak keyboard. [...]

So where are we at with vitamin D knowledge and its application?

From time to time I question the extent of soaping our skin that we have been doing since the 1960s.
Does that remove surface fat so vitamin D will be migrated out to the surface?

Michio Kushi said milk was a greater cancer-causer than tobacco. Does the calcium of milk rob
vitamin D?

What is the balance of vitamin A to D needed? To what extent has knowledge disseminated about
helping the body to balance its needs, eg calcium/magnesium in the diet?

Are there differing forms of vitamin D?

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----