Lower gearing for shimano 5500 9spd

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by mrvlhs, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Hey guys,

    I've got an old Shimano 5500 9spd groupset on my bike with 39/52 front and 12/25 back. I'd like to know 2 things:

    1) What's the biggest cassette that this groupset can support? Please let me know about your personal experiences.
    2) What can I do in terms of the chainrings/crankset/bb to make it compact? From what I've seen in Sheldon's website my BB should be an Octalink V1 (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html) but I don't have the tools to open and confirm for myself so I may do it later if I consider exchanging it a viabe option.

    Thanks guys!
     
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  2. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FYI ...

    Shimano conservatively specs a 27t as the largest Cog which their 9-speed ROAD rear derailleurs can handle ...

    However, the largest Cassette that has been commonly used with a 9-speed Shimano Road rear derailleur (5503/6503) is one with 30t; and, many people have indicated that they have mated an 11-32 Cassette with their 9-speed Shimano Road rear derailleur by adjusting the B-screw which is on the rear of the derailleur.

    My preference was to replace the 11t upper pulley wheel with a 10t pulley wheel which allowed me to use an 11-34t Cassette without adjusting the B-screw on a frame with a normal drop rear derailleur hanger..

    On an older frame whose derailleur hanger was designed for a Campagnolo Nuovo Record rear derailleur (essentially, zero drop), I could only use an 11-32 AFTER adjusting the B-screw on a Shimano Road rear derailleur ...

    After several years, I have reverted to an older XT 750 GS cage rear derailleur (I had an SGS cage XT 750 on the bike shortly after the fin de siecle) on that particular Road bike which has a zero drop rear derailleur hanger so that I could use an 11-34 Cassette instead of an already wussy 11-32 Cassette.

    I-and-many others have opted to use a Shimano MTB rear derailleur when using a Cassette which has larger than 27t Cog because most Shimano MTB rear derailleurs come with either a GS or SGS cage.​

    If there is a problem with most Shimano Road rear derailleurs which were supplied with ready-built bikes, it was the inclusion of the short cage version of the derailleur rather than the long Road ("GS"/medium-MTB equivalent) cage rear derailleur which accompanied bikes with Triple Road crankis.

    When in doubt OR if you need a derailleur with a longer cage to accommodate more chain then I suggest you consider a Shimano MTB rear derailleur with either a GS or the longer SGS cage.

    As far as your 5500 crankset, it does use what is referred to as the V1 Octalink Bottom Bracket. The V1 spline pattern was compatible with Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105 and XTR Octalink cranksets.

    The V2 Octalink spline pattern was developed & used with the 9-speed XT, LX, and (apparently) some later Tiagra cranksets.​

    The Octalink generation Road cranksets only came with 130BCD spiders which meant that if you wanted a different/smaller spider that you either needed to choose an XTR crankset + either a 110BC 5-arm spider or a 104BCD 4-arm spider or use the proprietary 112BCD spider for which you will have extraordinary difficulty finding chainrings OR you could buy either a Ritchey or FSA crankset which uses 110BCD chainrings or an FSA MTB crankset which uses 104BCD chainrings (48t is the largest commonly available 104BCD chainring, AFAIK) ...

    For lower gearing, your immediate option is a 38t 130BCD chainring (not uncommon, but not particularly common) ...,​

    So-called "compact" cranksets have smaller than 38t inner chainring.

    Back in the 60s, the pejorative-or-euphemistic (depending on one's perspective!?!) label "Alpine" gearing was applied to bikes which had a 52/36 chairing combination because the real road bikes came with more manly 52/42 gearing. The alternate "Alpine" gearing was 50/34.

    "Alpine" gearing was re-labeled as "Compact" gearing AND becamse more-than-acceptable to the point of being in vogue after Tyler Hamilton won one stage of the Tour de France while using a bike with a 50/34 crankset ...

    THEREAFTER, it became something which many of the "cool" kids considered having ...
    Consequently, if you want a crankset with a smaller inner chainring then the most practical option (IMO) is to resign yourself to a different Bottom Bracket & Crankset combination ...

    Shimano Hollowtech II & FSA Mega Exo BB cups are compatible with one another; and so, those are probably your best choices, IMO ...

    From an aesthetic ponit of view, I think that the less quasi-aero look of the FSA cranks is more appealing than Shimano's first generation of 10-speed Hollowtech II cranksets ...

    N.B. In the past, many people have disparaged FSA chainrings because they felt that the FSA chainrings did not last as long as Shimano's chainrings ...

    Shimano Dura Ace and Ultegra chainrings are probably amongst the best one can generally choose because Shimano has been in the vanguard with regard to developing the ramping-and-pinning and the DA/Ultegra rings are nickle-plated which enhances their ability to resist wear.

    Dura Ace and Ultegra chainrings are VERY EXPENSIVE.​

    IMO, FSA chainrings are no softer than Shimano 105 chainrings which are BARELY ramped ("bulged" is probably a more accurate description) ...

    FSA chainrings are both ramped-and-pinned (it does make some difference wtih Shimano shifters NOT with Campagnolo shifters ... ALL shifters benefit from ramped-and-pinned chainrings, but Campagnolo shiftiers work efficiently with un-ramped and un-pinned chainrings).​
    BTW. There is apparently zero compatibility between the new crop of 4-arm cranksets which Shimano, Campagnolo, and FSA have brought to market ... consequently, I would NOT recommend any of them ... OR, put another way, I would be inclined to avoid any of them because I have made the mistake of buying products with proprietary specs in the past AND I recommend if you opt for a new crankset that you opt for either of the less exotic 104BCD or 110BCD cranksets.
     
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  3. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Thank you! That was an exhaustive reply. It seems to me, from looking around, that the crankset replacement option would be pretty expensive and so I'll leave that, for now, as a last resort.

    With regards to this rear derailleur...

    I've also heard about people being able to fit a 30t but they've lost the 12t when using the small ring at the front and the 30t when using the biggest. Do you know if this may have been due to bad tuning/chain size or will it simply happen because the rear derailleur wasn't supposed to handle more than 27t? I know one shouldn't use them anyway but I like to know that every gear works and that I'm not stressing too much the chain or the rear derailleur if accidentally shifting into those.​

    Do you think I could use 32t with the current setup as well?

    I like the idea of replacing the 11t pulling wheel to a 10t pulling wheel in order to get a 34t cassette but I don't know if my frame has the normal drop rear derailleur hanger you mention. For that reason, I added a picture of the rear derailleur and crankset to help in any way it can. Note that the picture has been perfectly aligned to the horizon so any geometry related concerns are perfectly portrayed.

    If you think that my frame and rear derailleur could support 34t, please let me know how could I get a hold of a 10t pulling wheel (I mean how should I search for it on eBay, if by reference or by buying and dismantling some other rear derailleur, etc).

    If not, should I get a Deore XT 750 long cage (see attached images) or should I consider other models too?
    Well, I think it's more wussy to walk up a climb than to ride a 34t. Cheers! ;)
     

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  4. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    With a little bit of searching I found these 10t pulleys: "TY05/15/20/22/30 CT92/MJ05" for a really cheap price. If you think this works for my rear derailleur and a 34t cassete let me know because that would be all I really need :)
     
  5. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FYI. While one would think that the pulley wheels you indicated should work, the bushing which the two metal discs rest against is incrementally too long for a direct swap with the pulleys in a 9-speed Shimano rear derailleur ...

    THAT does not mean that you cannot buy-and-use them if you are capable of a relatively minor DIY modification (I have NOT tried this, yet ... I'll try to assess how much of an nuisance it is-or-isn't in the next couple of days)...

    1. The simplest modification is to take a FLAT FILE and reduce the central collar which sleeves the bushing to the narrower dimension on your 11t Pulley Wheel ...
      • you would use the bushing & two metal discs from the 11t.Pulley on the 10t Pulley Wheel's body.
    2. BTW. I checked eBay, and there are listings for the 10t Pulley Wheels sans the bushings & flanking disks for even less than the cost of a set of the wider 10t Pulleys. You can put the spares in your "toolbox" ...
    BTW. The REASON you cannot use the particular Pulley Wheels which you indicated without SOME modification is because the bolt which secures it in the Pulley Cage will be too short ...​

    BTW. Here (I am not sure the pictures are actually attached ... I might have to try to add them in another post) is a 12-34 Cassette + "long" (GS) cage Shimano Road rear derailleur with an 10t upper pulley wheel ...

    upload_2016-6-6_13-22-38.png
    upload_2016-6-6_13-22-38.png
    The chain had NOT been shortened from when it had a 12-26 Cassette, so the largest cog cannot be used when the chain is on the outer (53t) chainring ... when the chain is on the inner chainring (39t) it can be used with the smallest Cog.

    With a ROAD bike, having a slack return on the chain is a cosmetic issue ... so, if your chain is long enough for the Big-Big combination, it shouldn't be a functional problem even when you are using the Small-Small combination ...

    As long as you don't back pedal when there is excessive slack because .​

    This is one of the last 80s vintage frames with the fore mentioned 'zero drop' derailleur hanger (observe how close the derailleur is to the quick release's "nut") ...
    View attachment 1 736[/ATTACH]
    The above bike is the one which currently has a Shimano XT 750 (GS) rear derailleur instead of the pictured 105 rear derailleur with a 10t upper Pulley Wheel ...

    You may-or-may-not be able to tell by the downward cant of the parallelogram that the B-screw was adjusted to achieve clearance between the upper Pulley Wheel & the larger Cog(s)..​
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    The cheapest 10t pulley I found on eBay incl. shipping to my country (Portugal) costs me less than 7$ and is actually a complete set of 2 original ones in the enclosed box. They come with the bushings in the middle and the two metal caps on the sides.

    I am ok with filing down some metal (a friend of mine also has a Dremel I can borrow), but is it really necessary? I will have the metal caps and bushings from both the 10t and 11t pulleys at hand so I'd believe that at least one of those would work without modifications, no? I hope you're referring to cutting down the length of the bushing and not the thickness.
    Do you think that my current rear derailleur can support either 30t or 32t without any parts replacement at all? In order to get 34t would the replacement of the pulley be enough? Is there any other 10t pulley that can do the job without cutting any bushings?

    Also, what models of rear derailleurs should I be on the lookout for (just in case)? Just to remind I'm 39-53t on the front and hopefully 11-34t on the back.

    Here's a list of models that might work, please confirm:​

    Sora RD-3400 GS
    Sora RD-3500 GS
    Tiagra RD-4600 GS
    105 RD-5700 GS

    Deore RD-M510 GS
    Deore LX RD-M570 GS
    Deore XT RD-M750 GS
    XTR RD-M952 GS​
     
  7. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    GS & SGS are Shimano designations for their MTB cages -- essentially, Gran Sport & Super/(Supra?) Gran Sport ... the designation originating with their CRANE (CRANE was the precursor to the first generation of Dura Ace which were essentially the same EXCEPT for the use of bolts which used Allen Wrenches instead of having traditional, hex-headed bolt heads) rear derailleurs in the 70s (pre-MTB).

    The length of the LONG CAGE on all off-the-shelf Shimano Road rear derailleurs is the equivalent of the MEDIUM CAGE on all of their MTB rear derailleurs.

    In the past ~10 years, some of the SGS rear derailleur cages are now longer ...

    The cage on most Shimano rear derailleurs can be swapped with the cage from another (the 950/952 rear derailleurs are exceptions which I know of because their cages are secured with a bolt in the same fashion as Campagnolo's Record/Chorus rear derailleurs) ...

    AFAIK, there are no off-the-shelf SGS Road rear deraillerus ... but, because most of the cages were interchangeable in the past, it is possible to swap cages between Shimano rear derailleurs. Here is an Ultegra rear derailleur which I mated with an XT rear derailleur's cage ...
    upload_2016-6-7_7-21-55.png
    The Road rear derailleur with the SGS cage would be suitable when using a smaller-than-normal Granny on a Triple.

    And, here is a short cage Road cage which I attached to a "Rapid Rise" XT rear derailleur ...

    upload_2016-6-7_7-24-12.png

    My intent, FWIW, was to pair the particular rear derailleur with a set of Shimano Road shifters to facilitate what I consider to be slow downshifting to larger Cogs when using a standard Shimano Road rear derailleur & a set of Shimano shifters!?!

    That is (and, this comment is mostly for others who do not believe that "dwell" exists), Shimano did not call their reverse-pull rear derailleurs "Rapid Rise" because they thought it would be a clever marketing name.​

    FYI. I believe that you are correct that the bushing from your 11t Pulley Wheel will sleeve into the 10t Pulley Wheel. You just have to trust me that some DIY modification (that is, the removal of EXCESS material) will need to be made to make it work ...

    You will want to use the 11t Pulley Wheel's bushing (you could theoretically file the longer bushing to the correct length) ...

    This may be stating the obvious ...

    Essentially, the Pulley Wheels which use bushings float between the two "caps" while riding on the bushing ... Shimano seems to deliver the derailleurs without any lube of any kind on the bushings ... I think that any light grease is beneficial ....

    My recollection is that the portion of the specific 10t Pulley Wheels which is below the "caps" is slightly raised so that they nest inside the "caps" to create a labyrinth seal ...

    Because I have not modified one, yet, I am not certain how well the 11t "caps" will fit after the excess material is removed ...

    So, you will be sailing into unknown waters.​

    BTW. Shimano did make-and-use 10t pulleys between 1998-and-2001(?) which can be directly interchanged with their 11t pulleys ..

    The XTR RD-M950 (for example) has 10t Pulley Wheels and the difference between it and the XTR 952 rear derailleur will be the 11t Pulley Wheels, the derailleur hanger BOLT (essentially a cosmetic change with the earlier bolt head being domed and the newer bolt having a stepped, concave head), and having "Mega 9" silk screened on the cage.

    The XTR 950 rear derailleur was available with three different cage lengths with the shortest being the same length as the short cage Road rear derailleur & intended (AFAIK) for Downhill bikes which typically only have a single Chainring.​

    BTW. Campagnolo only changed to 11t Pulley Wheels about 5+ years ago; and, their 1998-present (I think that their Xenon derailleurs are still being sold ... maybe not) 10t Pulley wheels are a compatible width ...

    Campagnolo Pulley Wheels of any ilk cost more in the States ...

    Also, Campagnolo uses a bolt whose outer diameter is incrementally (0.1mm?) smaller (the thread pitch is the same) ... I have not compared the bushing ODs, so I do not know how much DIY modification needs to be made..​

    That's an incredibly long preamble to say that I think you can probably use an 11-34 Cassette if you change the upper Pulley Wheel (as pictured in the earlier post) ...

    But, your current derailleur's pulley cage will result in a slack return chain when you use some combinations with the inner Chainring if you eventually replace the chain with one which is the proper length for the Big-Big combination ...

    Although MY chain was long enough so that the "ideal" length chain for a 12-26 & 53/39 combination could theoretically be used with the 39t Chainring & 34t Cog, YOUR current chain may-or-may-not be long enough ...

    So, while you can probably use your current combination with a MTB Cassette whose largest Cog is as large 34t, then when the time comes for you to buy a new chain, you should make it long enough for the Big-Big combination BUT, you should get a new chain

    GS cages may-or-may-not be hard to find on most current Shimano rear derailleurs without placing a special order ...

    Since I am not racing, there is nothing wrong, IMO, with dragging the few extra links which an SGS cage can accommodate.​
    FYI. I love the 950/952 rear derailleurs, but I definitely recommend the XT 750 (why pay more?) because of the relative lack of derailleur cage interchangeability with the XTR rear derailleurs ...

    And, the difference in price between a 'vintage' XT rear derailleur and a lesser Shimano MTB rear derailleur is usually negligible.
    The Sora, Tiagra, and 105 rear derailleurs which you indicated would benefit for the 10t upper Pulley Wheel swap ...

    The LX, XT, and XTR should are probably good-to-go without swapping the upper Pulley Wheel ...

    I am NOT certain about the Deore RD-510 whose parallelogram may be the same "short" length used on Shmano's Road rear derailleurs; so I would treat it like a long cage Road derailleur which may require a 10t Upper Pulley wheel which Shimano's Road rear derailleurs need when mated with MTB Cassettes which have larger Cogs.


     
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  8. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    BTW. The parallelogram on the pictured Ultegra 6600 (and 105 5600) rear derailleur(s) is/(are) the same length as the parallelogram on the Ultegra 6500 rear derailleur whose parallelogram is the same length as on your 105 5500 rear derailleur ...

    So, its limitations-and-potential are the same as for your current rear derailleur.​
     
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  9. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Great information as always, alfeng. I'd rather keep the current 105 setup instead of going with the Deore XT RD-M750 GS just because of coherence, my bike is all 105. Having said that, would you be able to confirm that the 10t pulley filing hack works or am I alone on this?

    I will be getting the cassette and a chain and I'll size it properly with some help once I'm sure I can do this. I will need at least to figure out what cassette to buy.
     
  10. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Fear not ...

    Although I have not endeavored to modify one of the "older"/wider 10t Pulley Wheels, I am fairly certain that I could do it if I was-or-had-been motivated ... so, you should hopefully be able to effect the DIY modification, too ...

    The following is based on how I remember the particular Pulley Wheel looks ... so, NO GUARANTEES ...​
    1. I think you only (?) need a standard FLAT FILE ...
      • and/or a HALF-ROUND FILE/(some people refer to them as a fine "wood rasp") because they are a little coarser and will allow you to remove some of the excess material a little more quickly ...
      • plus, some 100-or-finer grit sand paper or emery cloth
    2. I would take the 11t Pulley Wheel's bushing and insert it into the 10t Pulley Wheel to get a vague visual assessment of how much-or-little material needs to be removed ...
    3. I would then draw the Pulley Wheel against the File (the Flat File would probably be my choice, BTW) ..
    4. I would then assess how much AND how evenly the material was removed by the first pass ...
    5. I would then Flip the Pulley Wheel over and repeat on the other side ...
    6. And then, repeat until the ends of the 11t Pulley Wheel's bushing are (initially) even-and-flush with the inner collar ....
      • Obviously, you want the two sides to be as parallel to the central plane of the Pulley Wheel as possible ...
      • so, try to remove the material, accordingly!!!
    7. NOW, the LIP of the two capping disks probably needs to be reduced other wise it will probably bottom-out in the groove that it nests in ...
      • YOU will need to decide how you want to hold the disk ...
      • I'm thinking almost any flat head nail can possibly be used to hold the disk by inserting the nail through the disk's hole (through the disk's "interior" side, of course) so that the "head" of the nail is shrouded by the cupped portion of the disk ...
        • a roofing nail has a comparatively over-sized head and should be long enough to grasp ...
        • of course, YOU can use any alternate that you come up with ...
      • draw the LIP-side of the disk across the FLAT FILE ...
      • assess ...
      • repeat as necessary ...
      • REPEAT on the second disk ...
        • I guess an ALTERNATE would be to make the groove deeper by scribing/scraping it out until the LIP doesn't bottom out ...
    8. IF I were satisfied that both disks fit well, then I would use the FINE sand paper or emery cloth to clean up both the metal & plastic surfaces of any burrs AND ALSO you will want to slightly reduce the width of the Pulley Wheels inner section until the Pulley Wheel can spin freely when it is sandwiched between the assembled disk-bushing-disk assemblage ...
      • you may-or-may-not need to chamfer the outer edge of the collar, BTW ...
    9. Apply a light grease ...
    10. Re-assemble Pulley Wheel's components ...
    11. Insert the Pulley Wheel in the rear derailleur's Cage ...
    12. DONE!
    Hope that made sense ...

    BTW. I concur with your aesthetic choice to continue to use your 105 rear derailleur ...

    BUT, just remember that the lower portion of your Chain will be slack when you are using some gearing combinations ...

    UNLESS you eventually replace the rear derailleur's Cage with a longer, GS or SGS cage which you can cannibalize from another Shimano rear derailleur.

    It's not difficult to do ...

    You can practice removing-and-replacing the derailleur Cage with the donor rear derailleur, first, to ensure that you understand the difficulty-or-ease by which the Cage is attached to the derailleur before actually swapping the cannibalized derailleur cage with the shorter Cage on your current 105 rear derailleur.. ​
     
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  11. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Thanks for all the help. I started to work on this yesterday. The hole on the caps that go on the side of the pulley wheel were not big enough but that was taken care of already. As you said, the pulley wheel is too fat and the bolt that goes inside is not long enough. I would have to file the wheel laterally so it gets thinner and internally, where the bushing goes. It seems to complicated and too easy to mess up.

    There surely must be an adequate bolt for these pulleys. Do you know how/where I could get one?

    Here is what I need:

    5mm thick
    13mm from head to start of thread
    10mm ignoring head to start of thread
    At least 17mm total length
     
  12. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    I have found METRIC threaded bolts which are suitable for the rear derailleur hanger Pulley wheels at the local, home center ('hardware') store (specifically, Home Depot) ... the price varies by size & length ...

    I suggest that you bring one of your existing bolts with you so you get the right diameter (I tape the bolt OR other small parts to a "file card" so that it is easier to carry to the store AND so I don't misplace it!) ... I think the last time I bought some of the longer bolts that they were less than two-for-a-dollar (pre-packaged ... I don't recall the actual amount ... the shorter bolts have three-or-four per package) ... ​

    Even with VAT, because Europe is Metric, I think that YOU should be able to find two bolts for ~0.50 € at your 'hardware' store.​

    The bolt's head will be similar to those found on bolts for water bottle cage bolts (and of course, you can buy additional 4mm bolts to use for water bottle cages while you are there).

    Of course, you can use Metric threaded bolts which have heads which are fastened with a regular screwdriver if that is all you have at your local "hardware" store(s).​

    BTW. Several years ago, I took the time to narrow the metal bushing on a 13t Shimano Tourney (possibly, the cheapest of the cheap!?!) Pulley Wheel because I wanted to add some capacity to a medium cage XTR (950) rear derailleur ...

    Narrowing an older Pulley Wheel can be done ...

    It just depends on how handy-AND-(especially!)-patient you are with DIY projects ...

    And, at that point in time I was both motivated & apparently had nothing more pressing to do (it didn't take too long ... I think I used a HALF-ROUND file because it has coarser 'teeth' ... I might have used a regular FLAT file to 'finish' the job ....
    1. To narrow the actual Pulley Wheel, place the FLAT file on a table (put a magazine or some cardboard from something like a cereal box beneath the file), and with Pulley Wheel held between your Thumb and Middle Finger and your Index Finger over the middle of the Pulley Wheel, draw the Pulley Wheel lightly across about 10cm of the length of the File.
    2. Assess
    3. Repeat
    4. Flip over & Repeat
    5. Assess
    6. Repeat as necessary
    1. To narrow the Bushing, with some MASKING TAPE, wrap the 7-/8-speed's bushing so that the part you do not want shortened is covered ....
    2. and, the excess is exposed
    3. place the bushing in a vice or use vice-grips
    4. slowly remove the excess material with the File
    5. remove any burrs
    6. grease
    7. assemble
    DONE!

     
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  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    BTW. Because the Pulley Wheel is plastic, you can certainly use 120-to-150 grit sandpaper-or-emery-cloth instead of a Flat File to make the Pulley wheel thinner ...

    Patience is the key!

    I would either use an orbital motion if I were using sandpaper or I would turn the Pulley Wheel after each pass across the sandpaper (or, File).​
     
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  14. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Thanks again! I managed to get a pair of fitting bolts and so that was easier :). I'm almost done now. Two things, first I applied grease but then cleaned almost all of it because the wheels weren't spinning freely. Let me know your take on that.

    Secondly, I bought a new chain and don't know if I should keep the old size or resize it.

    And thirdly, I managed to get Shimano Tourney rear derailleur that has a longer cage than mine. Do you think I could use it? If so, how?

    Thanks for all your terrific help!
     
  15. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    For grease, I generally use either a thin smear of generic petroleum jelly (vaseline) OR white Lithium grease when I just want a minimal coating of grease AND I use "regular" grease for things like headsets ....

    An alternative for a light grease would be to use a drop of MINERAL OIL.​

    If the old chain length is the right length which allows a Big-Big combination, then that's what you should probably use ...

    I wouldn't shorten the chain ...

    When possible, I lean toward using the longest chain which the rear derailleur can handle.
    AFAIK, a Shimano Tourney rear derailleur should be functionally interchangeable with your 105 rear derailleur ...

    If you really want to use it, I think that you simply need to remove the hanger. I don't recall if the hanger is attached with a "standard" 10x1 bolt -- if not, then you will need to replace the bolt which held the hanger with a rear derailleur hanger bolt (again, 10x1 threading) which I guess you would have to cannibalize from another derailleur OR (¿possibly?) you can get a 10x1 bolt from an automotive supply store ...

    You MAY need to enlarge the hole in the Tourney rear derailleur to accept a 10x1 bolt ...​
    Consequently, I think it should perhaps be your last resort.​

    BTW. This may be stating the obvious, but one reason that 9-/10-/11-speed Pulley Wheels are narrower is because the thicker Pulley Wheel had the potential to place the rear derailleur's inner cage in contact with the spokes ...

    The OTHER remedy had been to minimize the cage behind the upper Pulley Wheel on some rear derailleurs; and so, that portion of the cage is just a minimalist TAB instead of a protective guard.
     
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  16. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Well if I give the chain the most slack possible (when using small cog front and back), switching to the biggest cog on the cassette does not stretch the RD enough in order for the jockey wheel not to touch the cassette. The b-screw is already all in. I'm finding out that in order for them not to touch, the chain has to be stretched to the extent that the RD cage will pass the point where it is perpendicular to the ground by maybe 20-25 degrees. I'm afraid that that might be too much tension on the RD but I'd like to know your opinion. Maybe it's just not possible to do this.

    I could also give the Shimano Tourney cage a go and see if it helps before I put the chain in. Have to look at that later, still would like to know your opinion on the subject above.

    As always, thanks for the info :)
     
  17. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    Also, is there any way to know the capacity of my Shimano RD-5500-SS? I can't seem to find that info anywhere online.
     
  18. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    On most rear derailleurs, because of the location of the upper Pulley Wheel's attachment at roughly 11 o'clock, the upper Pulley Wheel will have the MOST clearance when the Pulley Cage is pointed at roughly 4 o'clock ...

    So, this (below) was set up with the chain on the inner Chainring & largest Cog AND a 10t.upper Pulley Wheel and the cage is stretched forward as described above.​

    [​IMG]
    The chain is NOT long enough for the Big-Big combination ...

    The chain is just long enough for the 39t Chainring + 34t Cog at which time the chain has almost zero slack & the cage is pointed to about the 4 o'clock position ...

    I might be able to achieve the same result with a short cage rear derailleur!?!

    In other words, when NOT using a MTB rear derailleur, ignore my earlier comment about installing the most chain which can be accommodated if you are trying to maximize the size of the largest Cog beyond Shimano's-or-Campagnolo's authorized specification!​
     
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  19. mrvlhs

    mrvlhs New Member

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    This (click here for link) is how big-big looks like (uploading to the forum doesn't seem to work atm). If you look closely at the bottom portion of the chain I added a little clip to pretend that I'm shortening the current chain length by almost 1 pin (I consider a pin a dot when looking at the chain sideways). It still needs a tad more stretch but I couldn't simulate that with the clip. I think this is doable, what do you think? It is very very unlikely for me to ever use this combination (32t at the back) with the big on the front, or even 30t at the back for that matter. When I use the big on the front, I usually use the outer side of the cassette.

    By shortening the chain to this size I accomplish 2 things:

    a) clearance (barely) on the upper pulley for the 32t cog (got a new b-screw that is a tad longer and it helps)
    b) a lot more tension when using small-small, so that means I get between 2 and 3 more cogs to use at the back when using small at the front.

    I just need your confirmation to finish this. Thank you for ALL the invaluable help!

    EDIT:

    Closeup image
    Even closer
     
    #19 mrvlhs, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  20. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    As pictured, your drivetrain's setup looks as though it should be good-to-go to me (after you remove the paper clip, of course!) ...

    That is, it looks as though you may be able to use the chain in its current length without removing any links to shorten it ....

    BTW. Re-installing the 11t Pulley Wheel in the lower position will have SOME effect on the Pulley Cage's angle ...

    If it matters to you, then you can stack a small "washer" between the cage & Pulley wheel to keep the cage plates parallel.
    OR, with the 11t Pulley Wheel installed in the lower position (without changing the chain's length), you may also be able to use an 11-34 Cassette, now, because your Upper Pulley Wheel is well clear of the Cassette and it appears that it would still be when the paperclip is removed.

     
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