lower than "expected" heart rate



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Raptor

Guest
The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo, but
my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.

Is there a simple explanation for this condition? Was I just in a funk?

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
A

Andy Coggan

Guest
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo,
> but my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.
>
> Is there a simple explanation for this condition? Was I just in a funk?

No simple physiological explanation, but it is a common observation that HR will be lower at a given
intensity (power output, VO2) when you've "overreached". Your actual performance, OTOH, may or may
not be impaired as a result (thus belying the common excuse of "I couldn't get my HR up!!!").

Andy ("power meters don't lie - well, usually not") Coggan
 
M

Max Watt

Guest
Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo,
> but my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.
>
> Is there a simple explanation for this condition? Was I just in a funk?
>
> --

This is a possible sign of overtraining. If it is, and you keep pushing yourself, it will get worse.
The early stages can be reversed with a week or two of rest, or you can push yourself into a state
where it takes months to recover. Or maybe you're just coming down with a cold and it will pass.
 
R

Raptor

Guest
Max Watt wrote:
> Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo,
>>but my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.
>>
>>Is there a simple explanation for this condition? Was I just in a funk?
>>
>>--
>
>
> This is a possible sign of overtraining. If it is, and you keep pushing yourself, it will get
> worse. The early stages can be reversed with a week or two of rest, or you can push yourself into
> a state where it takes months to recover. Or maybe you're just coming down with a cold and it
> will pass.

Interesting. I thought a higher-than-expected HR was the classic sign of overtraining. Your and
Andy's explanation fits my situation though.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
S

Steve Blankensh

Guest
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Max Watt wrote:
> > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo,
> >>but my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.
> >>
> >>Is there a simple explanation for this condition? Was I just in a funk?
> >>
> >>--
> >
> >
> > This is a possible sign of overtraining. If it is, and you keep pushing yourself, it will get
> > worse. The early stages can be reversed with a week or two of rest, or you can push yourself
> > into a state where it takes months to recover. Or maybe you're just coming down with a cold and
> > it will pass.
>
> Interesting. I thought a higher-than-expected HR was the classic sign of overtraining. Your and
> Andy's explanation fits my situation though.

Higher resting HR, but lower under exertion and relatively unresponsive to changes in tempo. Won't
go up easily or as far as normal, then doesn't come back down quickly when you step off the gas.
Time to rest... ;-)
 
R

Raptor

Guest
Steve Blankenship wrote:
> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Interesting. I thought a higher-than-expected HR was the classic sign of overtraining. Your and
>>Andy's explanation fits my situation though.
>
>
> Higher resting HR, but lower under exertion and relatively unresponsive to changes in tempo. Won't
> go up easily or as far as normal, then doesn't come back down quickly when you step off the gas.
> Time to rest... ;-)

Damn. I'm doing fairly hard workouts on a semi-daily basis but basically sitting on my ass or
sleeping the rest of the time. How much rest does it take!? Getting older sucks.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Steve Blankenship wrote:
> > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Interesting. I thought a higher-than-expected HR was the classic sign of overtraining. Your and
> >>Andy's explanation fits my situation though.
> >
> >
> > Higher resting HR, but lower under exertion and relatively unresponsive to changes in tempo.
> > Won't go up easily or as far as normal, then doesn't come back down quickly when you step off
> > the gas. Time to rest... ;-)
>
> Damn. I'm doing fairly hard workouts on a semi-daily basis but basically sitting on my ass or
> sleeping the rest of the time. How much rest does it take!? Getting older sucks.

Recently I've learned alot about the impact a more sound aerobic support system has on your
ability to recover. For example, I used to do 6-9 hours a week with 2-3 "hard" days a week and
barely recover.

Now it's 11-12 hours and 8 in the recovery or tapering weeks. Recovery ride Monday, on-bike strength
training on Tuesday, aerobic capacity intervals on Wed, off Thursday, sprints and other alactic work
on Friday (twice as many as before), LT intervals and aerobic capacity on Saturday, and on Sunday
either race or 3 x 20 minute climbs at, and around LT plus 3 x 15-20 minute aerobic capacity
intervals during the 3-hour ride. I'm 44 and my recovery is now better than it has been in at least
10 years. Eating smart helps alot too.

-WG
 
S

Steve Blankensh

Guest
"Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >>Interesting. I thought a higher-than-expected HR was the classic sign of overtraining. Your and
> >>Andy's explanation fits my situation though.
> >
> >
> > Higher resting HR, but lower under exertion and relatively unresponsive
to
> > changes in tempo. Won't go up easily or as far as normal, then doesn't
come
> > back down quickly when you step off the gas. Time to rest... ;-)
>
> Damn. I'm doing fairly hard workouts on a semi-daily basis but basically sitting on my ass or
> sleeping the rest of the time. How much rest does it take!? Getting older sucks.

It does take some getting used to... ;-) But you may not need complete rest; ride but just step off
the gas for a while (and don't get sucked into chasing people). You're better off doing truly hard
stuff a couple of days a week and going easy the other days than going semi-hard all the time. And
watch your overall hours; if you're doing big weeks one after the other with a substantial amount of
intensity, you'd really benefit from taking it easy for a week or two. And take heart; if you are
indeed a bit cooked, then you've found out what it takes to get you there, so you can plan
accordingly in the future.
 
R

Raptor

Guest
Steve Blankenship wrote:
> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Damn. I'm doing fairly hard workouts on a semi-daily basis but basically sitting on my ass or
>>sleeping the rest of the time. How much rest does it take!? Getting older sucks.
>
>
> It does take some getting used to... ;-) But you may not need complete rest; ride but just step
> off the gas for a while (and don't get sucked into chasing people). You're better off doing truly
> hard stuff a couple of days a week and going easy the other days than going semi-hard all the
> time. And watch your overall hours; if you're doing big weeks one after the other with a
> substantial amount of intensity, you'd really benefit from taking it easy for a week or two. And
> take heart; if you are indeed a bit cooked, then you've found out what it takes to get you there,
> so you can plan accordingly in the future.

That's good to know. I'm pretty confident in my aerobic base by now. BTW, I'm not doing a lot of
riding yet, just a bunch of aerobic x-training. I smoke my last cigarette soon, too. :)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Raptor wrote:
> I smoke my last cigarette soon, too. :)
>
> --

And you are wondering why you feel cooked????????

Two years ago I switched from cigarettes to snuff ( ground tobacco under the
lip). At first I felt tremendously better just for the simple reason that I could breathe again. Ie
I could get oxygen into my lungs. However I still could not transport the oxygen from my lungs
to my muscles since the nicotine in itself raises the HR. After six months of training with the
new club I joined I started wondering why my HR never was below 150 ( maxHR
185 ) One day I held back on tobacco for just over twelve hours before my sunday clubride and my
average HR dropped **30** beats. I quit immediately at this point. My aerobic capacity jumped
higher in one day than two years of hard training had accomplished. Today I'm often riding
around on clubrides at HRs of 110 or so. Feels pretty good being 52 and having a very much
higher aerobic capacity than when I was 20.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
R

Raptor

Guest
warren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Per Elmsäter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Raptor wrote:
>>
>>>I smoke my last cigarette soon, too. :)
>>>
>>>--
>>
>>And you are wondering why you feel cooked????????
>
>
> When he mentioned that I figured my previous post to help him improve his aerobic capacity was
> almost meaningless for him and then he still said his aerobic base was "sound". Very funny!

You do hear occasionally of world class endurance athletes from countries where the anti-smoking
gospel hasn't taken hold lighting up.

I'm speaking relatively. I've never been able to kick 'em. Relative to my conditioning over the
years, at this time of the year, I'm in strong condition. It is possible to be in "good" shape
while smoking.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Raptor wrote:
> I'm speaking relatively. I've never been able to kick 'em. Relative to my conditioning over the
> years, at this time of the year, I'm in strong condition. It is possible to be in "good" shape
> while smoking.
>

I don't doubt you are in *relatively* good shape. I have always been in good shape too. I just never
got any oxygen and had to learn to live without it ;)

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
R

Raptor

Guest
warren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>It is possible to be in "good" shape while smoking.
>
>
> Nice troll.

Not trying to start an argument, so it's not a troll. I'm just in excellent shape, and I've "always"
smoked. I take it as a given that I'm not as strong or healthy as I could be. It's got to be a given
because I don't have anything to compare until "soon."

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
R

Raptor

Guest
Per Elmsäter wrote:
> Raptor wrote:
>
>>I'm speaking relatively. I've never been able to kick 'em. Relative to my conditioning over the
>>years, at this time of the year, I'm in strong condition. It is possible to be in "good" shape
>>while smoking.
>>
>
>
> I don't doubt you are in *relatively* good shape. I have always been in good shape too. I just
> never got any oxygen and had to learn to live without it ;)
>
> --
> Perre

Talk to me more about what that feels like. I could use the motivation. :)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "Let me tell you what else I'm worried about. I'm
worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our
view of the military is for the military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and therefore,
prevent war from happening in the first place." George Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
 
P

Per ElmsäTer

Guest
Raptor wrote:
> Talk to me more about what that feels like. I could use the motivation. :)
>

Well the numbers are that you will improve your aerobic capacity at least 15%. *I think* the older
you get the bigger this improvement will be.

Hills that I now call roadbumps made me feel like fainting and almost wanting to puke if I went up
them hard. Like 25 km/h. Now I can accelerate up to 40 km/h over those same roadbumps without barely
raising my pulse. Today I was in a two man breakaway leading up a 500 m long incline doing 47 km/h
all the way over the top. Earlier I couldn't even go that fast on a downhill without a tailwind.

How many years of intense training will you need to lower your HR approximately 30 beats for the
same workload?

When I quit I wore my HRM night and day. Any time I wanted smoke I just glanced at my HR and
immediately remembered why I was quitting. Made it real easy.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
 
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Risto Varanka

Guest
Max Watt <[email protected]> wrote:
: Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
:> The other day I wasn't feeling strong, was riding at what felt to me to be a fairly hard tempo,
:> but my heart rate stayed lower than I "felt" it should.

2 days ago I was training at a subthreshold pace, and seemed my pulse didn't come up to
reasonable level until 10 minutes or more into the exercise. (With about 10 minutes warmup before
that.) My legs still felt some of the training from 2 days before that, but I found the pace
somewhat easy to push... only when I pulled right up to the threshold for 20 minutes more did it
become "a bit" harder...

: This is a possible sign of overtraining. If it is, and you keep pushing yourself, it will get
: worse. The early stages can be reversed with a week or two of rest, or you can push yourself into
: a state where it takes months to recover. Or maybe you're just coming down with a cold and it
: will pass.

Cold can be a good reason to back off...

In my case it might be overtraining, training conscientously now as a race is coming up very soon.
Don't feel entirely motivated and a bit tired... So I should take a full week or two off?

Thought just 3-4 days prerace taper would do it, and then some easy time... a week or two at
some point.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/ varis at no spam please iki fi
 
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