lowering of metabolism after weight loss

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by wendy, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. wendy

    wendy Guest

    A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts metabolism
    after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article that
    talks about the issue:

    Why lost weight returns after dieting
    http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955

    The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats, induced
    by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations that
    predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing
    weight, this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic rate,
    measured as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate,
    both independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This adaptation
    persists after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance, but
    is no longer present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will
    where rats are regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining
    weight may have a shift in appetite that would contribute to their high
    rate of weight regain, the drive to increase food intake remains the
    most critical factor in the predisposition to regain lost weight. This
    adjustment clearly weighs more on the energy balance equation than the
    metabolic adjustment on energy expenditure observed in this or any other
    study.

    Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
    carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
    CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much
    more dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight
    reduction. This drive to increase food intake likely involves
    environmental stimuli (diet composition, food palatability, physical
    activity) influencing motivational and metabolic components of a
    genetically determined set of central systems.

    While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might hinder
    successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful
    weight maintenance is unachievable. Even with the increased intake of
    carbohydrates, regular physical exercise may be the key factor that
    counteracts these metabolic adaptations to weight loss.

    ----

    I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
    weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable. How
    hard does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve it?
    Not very hard.
     
    Tags:



  2. > regular physical exercise may be the key factor that counteracts these
    > metabolic adaptations to weight loss.



    for me its the only way to do it.

    --
    Tom
    Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow

    Information you can trust from the diabetes experts...
    Your American Diabetes Association
    http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp
    the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards
    http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index

    >
    > ----
    >
    > I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
    > weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable. How hard
    > does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve it?
    > Not very hard.
     
  3. wendy

    wendy Guest

    Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    > It all depends on how much you want it.


    So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
    not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.

    >Numerous people lose weight
    > and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.


    Nor is it easy enough to expect even the majority of people to be able
    to do it.
     
  4. wendy

    wendy Guest

    Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:55:30 -0700, wendy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    >>
    >>>It all depends on how much you want it.

    >>
    >>So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
    >>not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.

    >
    >
    > Any fat person can lose weight if they are calorie restricted (for
    > example, confined in a cage with limited food). It is unlike running.


    That's not really the point though. What is important is how do you keep
    the weight off when you are free in the wild.


    > Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
    > the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
    > here, I agree with you.


    I don't know about cannot, but it's a lot harder than people want to admit.
     
  5. GaryG

    GaryG Guest

    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    > > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:55:30 -0700, wendy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>It all depends on how much you want it.
    > >>
    > >>So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
    > >>not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.

    > >
    > >
    > > Any fat person can lose weight if they are calorie restricted (for
    > > example, confined in a cage with limited food). It is unlike running.

    >
    > That's not really the point though. What is important is how do you keep
    > the weight off when you are free in the wild.
    >
    >
    > > Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
    > > the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
    > > here, I agree with you.

    >
    > I don't know about cannot, but it's a lot harder than people want to

    admit.

    Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
    consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.

    That said, in today's world where calorie-dense food is ever present in
    enormous quantities, and where most of us spend most of our days sitting on
    our rear ends, it does require a degree of dedication to lose weight.

    As with many other things in life, anything that requires patience and
    persistence will tend to have a low rate of success. It's just a lot easier
    for most people to reach for the bag of snacks and the remote control,
    rather than get up off the couch and go for a walk. But, that's more an
    issue of personal priorities than metabolism.

    GG
     
  6. GaryG

    GaryG Guest

    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts metabolism
    > after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article that
    > talks about the issue:
    >
    > Why lost weight returns after dieting
    > http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955
    >
    > The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats, induced
    > by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations that
    > predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing
    > weight, this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic rate,
    > measured as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate,
    > both independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This adaptation
    > persists after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance, but
    > is no longer present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will
    > where rats are regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining
    > weight may have a shift in appetite that would contribute to their high
    > rate of weight regain, the drive to increase food intake remains the
    > most critical factor in the predisposition to regain lost weight. This
    > adjustment clearly weighs more on the energy balance equation than the
    > metabolic adjustment on energy expenditure observed in this or any other
    > study.
    >
    > Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
    > carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
    > CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much
    > more dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight
    > reduction. This drive to increase food intake likely involves
    > environmental stimuli (diet composition, food palatability, physical
    > activity) influencing motivational and metabolic components of a
    > genetically determined set of central systems.
    >
    > While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might hinder
    > successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful
    > weight maintenance is unachievable. Even with the increased intake of
    > carbohydrates, regular physical exercise may be the key factor that
    > counteracts these metabolic adaptations to weight loss.
    >
    > ----
    >
    > I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
    > weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable. How
    > hard does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve it?
    > Not very hard.


    That study reduced the rat's food intake rather drastically. Specifically,
    "weight loss was induced by limiting calories to approximately 60 percent of
    energy expenditure". This would be equivalent to a person who burns 2500
    calories per day being limited to only 1500 calories per day.

    There's also the issue of time frame. In the experiment, they took 16 weeks
    to allow the rats to gain 10-15% body weight. But, they allowed only 2
    weeks to reduce their body weight by that much.

    It's possible the effect on metabolism seen in those rats was due to a
    "starvation" response. If they had lost weight the weight slowly (the same
    way they had gained it), it's possible the effect on metabolism would have
    been different.

    --
    GG
    http://www.WeightWare.com
    Your Weight and Health Diary
     
  7. Cubit

    Cubit Guest

    Humans are not rats.

    I recall a study that showed metabolism dropping by 15% when the fat on the
    human body goes below a "setpoint." The setpoint was different for each
    individual. 15% is not large enough to make weight management impossible.
    However, it does tip the scales, so to speak.


    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
     
  8. wendy

    wendy Guest

    GaryG wrote:
    > Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
    > consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.


    And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes.


    > As with many other things in life, anything that requires patience and
    > persistence will tend to have a low rate of success. It's just a lot easier
    > for most people to reach for the bag of snacks and the remote control,
    > rather than get up off the couch and go for a walk. But, that's more an
    > issue of personal priorities than metabolism.


    Why is it easier? You don't forget to breath. You don't over drink
    water. Why do you want to eat the snacks and use the remote control? It
    could be different, but it's not. The influences are so built-in we
    don't even recognize they are at play.
     
  9. wendy

    wendy Guest

    GaryG wrote:
    > It's possible the effect on metabolism seen in those rats was due to a
    > "starvation" response. If they had lost weight the weight slowly (the same
    > way they had gained it), it's possible the effect on metabolism would have
    > been different.
    >


    It's possible. But i believe that rate is about a 1 pound a month.
     
  10. wendy

    wendy Guest

    Cubit wrote:
    > Humans are not rats.
    >
    > I recall a study that showed metabolism dropping by 15% when the fat on the
    > human body goes below a "setpoint." The setpoint was different for each
    > individual. 15% is not large enough to make weight management impossible.
    > However, it does tip the scales, so to speak.


    A woman is not a man. One person is not the next. One race is not the
    next. Like it or not animal models are what we learn a lot from. It
    doesn't always work, but to dismiss any study based on animal models
    isn't wise.

    If i could guarantee you a 15% rate of return you would be a very happy
    person.

    As for weight management being impossible, that is not the argument. But
    that's a pretty damn high standard.
     
  11. GaryG

    GaryG Guest

    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > GaryG wrote:
    > > Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
    > > consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.

    >
    > And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes.


    Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically possible.

    But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories
    than they burn each day. It can be challenging, because of they availability
    of food, and the way it is consumed recreationally and socially.

    Is it easy to lose weight? No.

    Is it possible? Yes.

    >
    >
    > > As with many other things in life, anything that requires patience and
    > > persistence will tend to have a low rate of success. It's just a lot

    easier
    > > for most people to reach for the bag of snacks and the remote control,
    > > rather than get up off the couch and go for a walk. But, that's more an
    > > issue of personal priorities than metabolism.

    >
    > Why is it easier? You don't forget to breath. You don't over drink
    > water. Why do you want to eat the snacks and use the remote control? It
    > could be different, but it's not. The influences are so built-in we
    > don't even recognize they are at play.


    I didn't say it was easy...but, it's not as impossible as you make it sound.
    One does have to become "aware", and make more intelligent choices with
    respect to food choices and portions, and exercise. But, plenty of people
    manage to do this.

    GG
     
  12. wendy

    wendy Guest

    GaryG wrote:
    > "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>GaryG wrote:
    >>
    >>>Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
    >>>consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.

    >>
    >>And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes.

    >
    >
    > Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically possible.


    Rubish. It's just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait,
    that's for weight.

    > But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories
    > than they burn each day.


    And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these
    mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of plenty
    without exercise- there's no way for you to know. All evidence is going
    the other way. Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
    in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
    humanity? Unlikely.
     
  13. GaryG

    GaryG Guest

    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > GaryG wrote:
    > > "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >>GaryG wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
    > >>>consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.
    > >>
    > >>And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4

    minutes.
    > >
    > >
    > > Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically

    possible.
    >
    > Rubish. It's just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait,
    > that's for weight.
    >
    > > But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories
    > > than they burn each day.

    >
    > And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these
    > mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of plenty
    > without exercise- there's no way for you to know. All evidence is going
    > the other way. Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
    > in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
    > humanity? Unlikely.


    So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
    surgery?

    A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you can't...you
    are correct."

    GG
     
  14. wendy

    wendy Guest

    GaryG wrote:
    > So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
    > surgery?


    Neither of which work either. I didn't say give up. But you also have to
    have a realistic idea of what your are trying to accomplish.

    > A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you can't...you
    > are correct."


    I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.
     
  15. None Given

    None Given Guest

    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > > A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you

    can't...you
    > > are correct."

    >
    > I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.



    You can fly if you start out high enough, it's the landings that are hell.

    --
    No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
     
  16. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    wendy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > GaryG wrote:
    >> "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>>GaryG wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply
    >>>>requires consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.
    >>>
    >>>And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4
    >>>minutes.

    >>
    >>
    >> Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically
    >> possible.

    >
    > Rubish. It's just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait,
    > that's for weight.
    >
    >> But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less
    >> calories than they burn each day.

    >
    > And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these
    > mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of
    > plenty without exercise- there's no way for you to know.


    There's no way to know that anyone can consume a few less calories than they
    burn each day? Nonsense.

    >All evidence
    > is going
    > the other way.


    And you know this how? Most who generate this "evidence" aren't even trying.

    Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
    > in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
    > humanity? Unlikely.


    Meaningless.
     
  17. Their thyroid glands didn't change. If the only reason they lost weight was
    less calories, then they didn't build muscle. You have to exercise to be
    healthy and build muscle.



    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts metabolism
    > after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article that
    > talks about the issue:
    >
    > Why lost weight returns after dieting
    > http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955
    >
    > The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats, induced
    > by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations that
    > predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing weight,
    > this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic rate, measured
    > as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate, both
    > independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This adaptation persists
    > after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance, but is no longer
    > present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will where rats are
    > regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining weight may have a
    > shift in appetite that would contribute to their high rate of weight
    > regain, the drive to increase food intake remains the most critical factor
    > in the predisposition to regain lost weight. This adjustment clearly
    > weighs more on the energy balance equation than the metabolic adjustment
    > on energy expenditure observed in this or any other study.
    >
    > Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
    > carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
    > CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much more
    > dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight reduction.
    > This drive to increase food intake likely involves environmental stimuli
    > (diet composition, food palatability, physical activity) influencing
    > motivational and metabolic components of a genetically determined set of
    > central systems.
    >
    > While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might hinder
    > successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful weight
    > maintenance is unachievable. Even with the increased intake of
    > carbohydrates, regular physical exercise may be the key factor that
    > counteracts these metabolic adaptations to weight loss.
    >
    > ----
    >
    > I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
    > weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable. How hard
    > does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve it?
    > Not very hard.
     
  18. Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.

    --
    Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW


    "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts metabolism
    > after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article that
    > talks about the issue:
    >
    > Why lost weight returns after dieting
    > http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955
    >
    > The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats, induced
    > by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations that
    > predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing weight,
    > this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic rate, measured
    > as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate, both
    > independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This adaptation persists
    > after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance, but is no longer
    > present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will where rats are
    > regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining weight may have a
    > shift in appetite that would contribute to their high rate of weight
    > regain, the drive to increase food intake remains the most critical factor
    > in the predisposition to regain lost weight. This adjustment clearly
    > weighs more on the energy balance equation than the metabolic adjustment
    > on energy expenditure observed in this or any other study.
    >
    > Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
    > carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
    > CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much more
    > dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight reduction.
    > This drive to increase food intake likely involves environmental stimuli
    > (diet composition, food palatability, physical activity) influencing
    > motivational and metabolic components of a genetically determined set of
    > central systems.
    >
    > While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might hinder
    > successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful weight
    > maintenance is unachievable. Even with the increased intake of
    > carbohydrates, regular physical exercise may be the key factor that
    > counteracts these metabolic adaptations to weight loss.
    >
    > ----
    >
    > I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
    > weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable. How hard
    > does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve it?
    > Not very hard.
     
  19. wendy wrote:
    >
    > Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    > > It all depends on how much you want it.

    >
    > So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
    > not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.
    >
    > >Numerous people lose weight
    > > and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.

    >
    > Nor is it easy enough to expect even the majority of people to be able
    > to do it.


    The 2PD-OMER Approach is simple enough.

    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
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    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
  20. Ignoramus21798 wrote:
    >

    <snip>
    > It all depends on how much you want it. Numerous people lose weight
    > and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.


    More than 625,550 people for more than 5 years without regain:

    http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp


    At His service,

    Andrew

    --
    Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist

    **
    Suggested Reading:
    (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
    (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
    (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
    (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
    (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
    (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
    (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
     
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