lowering of metabolism after weight loss



wendy wrote:
>
> A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts metabolism
> after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article that
> talks about the issue:
>
> Why lost weight returns after dieting
> http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955
>
> The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats, induced
> by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations that
> predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing
> weight, this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic rate,
> measured as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic rate,
> both independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This adaptation
> persists after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance, but
> is no longer present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will
> where rats are regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining
> weight may have a shift in appetite that would contribute to their high
> rate of weight regain, the drive to increase food intake remains the
> most critical factor in the predisposition to regain lost weight. This
> adjustment clearly weighs more on the energy balance equation than the
> metabolic adjustment on energy expenditure observed in this or any other
> study.
>
> Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
> carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
> CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much
> more dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight
> reduction. This drive to increase food intake likely involves
> environmental stimuli (diet composition, food palatability, physical
> activity) influencing motivational and metabolic components of a
> genetically determined set of central systems.
>
> While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might hinder
> successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful
> weight maintenance is unachievable. Even with the increased intake of
> carbohydrates, regular physical exercise may be the key factor that
> counteracts these metabolic adaptations to weight loss.
>
> ----
>
> I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how hard
> weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable.

I believe that is because they have encountered some of the more than
625,550 people who have achieved lasting (> 5 yrs) weight loss using the
2PD-OMER Approach.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
JC Der Koenig wrote:
>
> Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.

Wiser would be to eat the **right** amount:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
GaryG wrote:
>
> "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > GaryG wrote:
> > > "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > >>GaryG wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
> > >>>consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.
> > >>
> > >>And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4
> minutes.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically
> possible.
> >
> > Rubish. It's just mind over matter. Just eat less exercise more. Wait,
> > that's for weight.
> >
> > > But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories
> > > than they burn each day.
> >
> > And you know this how? As we are just learning about most of these
> > mechanisms and we are only a generation or two into the world of plenty
> > without exercise- there's no way for you to know. All evidence is going
> > the other way. Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
> > in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
> > humanity? Unlikely.
>
> So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
> surgery?

No.

Look here:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
GaryG wrote:
>
> "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > GaryG wrote:
> > > Well...it's not rocket science either. Losing weight simply requires
> > > consuming a few less calories per day than one burns.
> >
> > And running a 4 minute mile simply require running a mile under 4 minutes.
>
> Not everyone is able to run a 4-minute mile - it's not physically possible.
>
> But, it is physically possible for anyone to consume a few less calories
> than they burn each day. It can be challenging, because of they availability
> of food, and the way it is consumed recreationally and socially.
>
> Is it easy to lose weight? No.
>
> Is it possible? Yes.

Here's how:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
wendy wrote:
>
> Ignoramus21798 wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:55:30 -0700, wendy <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>Ignoramus21798 wrote:
> >>
> >>>It all depends on how much you want it.
> >>
> >>So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
> >>not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.
> >
> >
> > Any fat person can lose weight if they are calorie restricted (for
> > example, confined in a cage with limited food). It is unlike running.
>
> That's not really the point though. What is important is how do you keep
> the weight off when you are free in the wild.
>
> > Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
> > the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
> > here, I agree with you.
>
> I don't know about cannot, but it's a lot harder than people want to admit.

Not for those learn to watch **how much** they are eating and choose to
befriend the **healthier** appetite that comes from eating less down to
the **right** amount.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Ignoramus21798 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:55:30 -0700, wendy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ignoramus21798 wrote:
> >> It all depends on how much you want it.
> >
> > So if you want it bad enough you can be a four minute miler? I think
> > not. Your physical body establishes what is ultimately possible.
>
> Any fat person can lose weight if they are calorie restricted (for
> example, confined in a cage with limited food). It is unlike running.
>
> >>Numerous people lose weight
> >> and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.
> >
> > Nor is it easy enough to expect even the majority of people to be able
> > to do it.
>
> Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
> the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
> here, I agree with you.

That has not been the experience of the more than 625,550 people who
have used the 2PD-OMER Approach to achieve lasting weight loss for more
than 5 years without regain.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Where's Amos?

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW


"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JC Der Koenig wrote:
>>
>> Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.
>
> Wiser would be to eat the **right** amount:
>
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp
>
> At His service,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Board-Certified Cardiologist
>
> **
> Suggested Reading:
> (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
> (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
> (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
> (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
> (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
> (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
>>All evidence
>>is going
>>the other way.
>
>
> And you know this how? Most who generate this "evidence" aren't even trying.

The increasing rates of obesity throughout the world. Over half of the
people are on a diet at any one time. They may not be trying hard enough
for you but they are trying.

> Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
>
>>in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
>>humanity? Unlikely.
>
> Meaningless.

Not if you can tell the difference between something that is easily
under your control and something that is barely on the edge of control.
What is meaningless is your simplistic and magical idea of just eat less.
 
JC Der Koenig wrote:
> Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.
>

Sorry if you had to think a bit.
 
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

>>Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
>>the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
>>here, I agree with you.
>
>
> That has not been the experience of the more than 625,550 people who
> have used the 2PD-OMER Approach to achieve lasting weight loss for more
> than 5 years without regain.

Are you saying that 625,550 people exist who could honestly claim that
they had used Andrew B. Chung's 2PD method to lose and maintain their
weight loss over a five year period? People who, if asked, would give
you credit for their success?


David



--

To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

All other mail is automatically deleted.
 
"wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> >>All evidence
> >>is going
> >>the other way.
> >
> >
> > And you know this how? Most who generate this "evidence" aren't even
trying.
>
> The increasing rates of obesity throughout the world. Over half of the
> people are on a diet at any one time. They may not be trying hard enough
> for you but they are trying.
>
> > Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
> >
> >>in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
> >>humanity? Unlikely.
> >
> > Meaningless.
>
> Not if you can tell the difference between something that is easily
> under your control and something that is barely on the edge of control.
> What is meaningless is your simplistic and magical idea of just eat less.

You seem to be a very negative person...specifically, a "toxic personality".
Do you ever get referred to as "Whiny Wendy"?

Other than a forum for you to vent about how impossible it is to lose weight
(something many of the regular posters here have managed, somehow, to do),
what's the point of this thread? While it's ostensibly a thread to discuss
a study on starved rat metabolism, it's really telling us much more about
your outlook on life, and your personal issues in coming to grips with your
weight.

GG
 
"wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GaryG wrote:
> > So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
> > surgery?
>
> Neither of which work either. I didn't say give up. But you also have to
> have a realistic idea of what your are trying to accomplish.
>
> > A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you
can't...you
> > are correct."
>
> I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.

You think you can't, you think you can't, you think you can't...we get it.

In the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for you?".

GG
 
can y'all cut the cross posting.

it invites nutter trolls like chung
 
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:06:19 -0700, wendy <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Additionally, the effect that energy intake, or more particularly,
>carbohydrate intake, has on respiratory quotient [dividing the amount of
>CO2 produced (VCO2) by the amount of oxygen uptake (VO2)]. RQ is much
>more dramatic than the metabolic adjustment observed from weight
>reduction. This drive to increase food intake likely involves
>environmental stimuli (diet composition, food palatability, physical
>activity) influencing motivational and metabolic components of a
>genetically determined set of central systems.

RQ shows just one thing, what you are actually burning as dominant
source.

If RQ is 1, you are burning solely carbohydrates, if it is above 1,
your body produce fat.
When RQ is 0.8, you are burning proteins, and around 0.7, you are
burning fat.
Many human nurition or physiology textbooks mentions these data.
Eg. Davidson and Passmore, Human Nutrition and dietetics, 8. ed p. 18
(Churchill Livingstone 1986

Pizza Face:
By measuring oxygen (O2m) uptake, CO2 (CO2m) production and urinary
nitrogen (UN) content and volume, you have the following equations:
Carbohydrate(g): 4.12*CO2m - 2.91*O2m - 2.54*UN
Fat(g): 1.69*O2m - 1.69*CO2m - 1.94*UN
Protein (g): 6.25*UN

Energy: 15.8*O2m +4.86*CO2m - 12.0*UN

During starvation you get a hormonal depression of BMR, and if you
before slimming had a PAL of 1.3 or so (predominantly sitting in a
chair or laying in bed) and had a BMR of 5kJ/min, and a food intake of
6.51 kJ/min, then start slimming with an energy intake of 3.5 kJ/min
and thus depress BMR hormonically down to maybe 3.8kJ/min, then give
up food restriction and goes back to energy intake of average 6.51
kJ/min and PAL of 1.3, then, because hormonal activity don't normalize
immediately, you would now have a netto gain of 6.51-3.8kJ/min, giving
a netto energy overshoot of 2.7 kJ/min, and gain weight at a
tremendous rate pr day
(The figures are exaggerated to show the case :)

If you had instead increase PAL to 2 instead of starving, while
keeping eating habits the same, you wouldn't stimulate hormonal
depression in that scale
Food intake still 6.51, BMR 5 as above, but total average EE would be
10 kJ/min since PAL increased from 1.3 to 2.
That is, you burn worth 5 kJ/min just in deposits in your body.
Having enough protein in diet, fat would probably be the thing used.

:)

On the other hand, BMR is also weight dependent:

If your BMI is above 30, Müller et al 2004 says:
REE(MJ/d)=0.05*weight(kg) + 1.103*sex (f=0,m=1) - 0.01586*age(y)+2.294

BMI btw 25 and 30:
REE(MJ/d)= 0.04507*weight(kg) + 1.006*sex(0/1) - 0.01553*age(y)+3.407

I would believe none of you are below 25 (since you are US citizens
most of you) and don't bother to type the others :)
 
"J. David Anderson" wrote:
>
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> >>Surely, we know that the majority of people cannot lose weight, and
> >>the majority of those who can lose weight does not keep it off. So,
> >>here, I agree with you.
> >
> >
> > That has not been the experience of the more than 625,550 people who
> > have used the 2PD-OMER Approach to achieve lasting weight loss for more
> > than 5 years without regain.
>
> Are you saying that 625,550 people exist who could honestly claim that
> they had used Andrew B. Chung's 2PD method to lose and maintain their
> weight loss over a five year period?

I have written that there are **more** than 625,550 people with **more**
than 5 years experience with the 2PD-OMER Approach. All have **not**
regained what they have lost in weight.

> People who, if asked, would give you credit for their success?

They are under no obligation to give me any credit.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
GaryG wrote:
>
> "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > GaryG wrote:
> > > So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
> > > surgery?
> >
> > Neither of which work either. I didn't say give up. But you also have to
> > have a realistic idea of what your are trying to accomplish.
> >
> > > A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you
> can't...you
> > > are correct."
> >
> > I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.
>
> You think you can't, you think you can't, you think you can't...we get it.
>
> In the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for you?".

She seems she is paralyzed by her fear of hunger.

Hopefully the following truths will help her:

(1) It is OK to be hungry. Hunger has never killed anyway. People die
from starvation and not hunger. Starving people are actually not
hungry. Thus, being hungry is a sign that you are **not** starving.

(2) There is a **right** amount of food that ensures optimal weight and
health. This is called an "omer." Optimal health means there will be a
**healthy** appetite (ie hunger).

(3) Benjamin Franklin has said, "Hunger is the best pickle (seasoning)."

(4) Jesus Christ has said, "Bless are you who hunger now, for you will
be satisfied." (Luke 6:21)

(5) Hunger is to a healthy person as a canary is to a **surviving** coal
miner.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
GaryG wrote:
>
> "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Roger Zoul wrote:
> > >>All evidence
> > >>is going
> > >>the other way.
> > >
> > >
> > > And you know this how? Most who generate this "evidence" aren't even
> trying.
> >
> > The increasing rates of obesity throughout the world. Over half of the
> > people are on a diet at any one time. They may not be trying hard enough
> > for you but they are trying.
> >
> > > Many yogis can control their breathing so they can stay
> > >
> > >>in a coffin for days. It's possible. Can the other 99.999956% of
> > >>humanity? Unlikely.
> > >
> > > Meaningless.
> >
> > Not if you can tell the difference between something that is easily
> > under your control and something that is barely on the edge of control.
> > What is meaningless is your simplistic and magical idea of just eat less.
>
> You seem to be a very negative person...specifically, a "toxic personality".
> Do you ever get referred to as "Whiny Wendy"?
>
> Other than a forum for you to vent about how impossible it is to lose weight
> (something many of the regular posters here have managed, somehow, to do),
> what's the point of this thread? While it's ostensibly a thread to discuss
> a study on starved rat metabolism, it's really telling us much more about
> your outlook on life, and your personal issues in coming to grips with your
> weight.


She is not alone in her fear of hunger, Gary.

Hopefully the following truths will help her:

(1) It is OK to be hungry. Hunger has never killed anyway. People die
from starvation and not hunger. Starving people are actually not
hungry. Thus, being hungry is a sign that you are **not** starving.

(2) There is a **right** amount of food that ensures optimal weight and
health. This is called an "omer." Optimal health means there will be a
**healthy** appetite (ie hunger).

(3) Benjamin Franklin has said, "Hunger is the best pickle (seasoning)."

(4) Jesus Christ has said, "Bless are you who hunger now, for you will
be satisfied." (Luke 6:21)

(5) Hunger is to a healthy person as a canary is to a **surviving** coal
miner.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
wendy wrote:
>
> Roger Zoul wrote:
> >>All evidence
> >>is going
> >>the other way.
> >
> >
> > And you know this how? Most who generate this "evidence" aren't even trying.
>
> The increasing rates of obesity throughout the world. Over half of the
> people are on a diet at any one time. They may not be trying hard enough
> for you but they are trying.

It is my belief that in time they will find out how to lose weight
permanently.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.

(message repeated due to recipient's failure to comprehend)

(which will undoubtably happen again)
--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW


"wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JC Der Koenig wrote:
>> Quit looking for excuses: just eat less and exercise more.
>>
>
> Sorry if you had to think a bit.
 
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD announces again:

<< I have written that there are **more** than 625,550 people with **more**
than 5 years experience with the 2PD-OMER Approach. All have **not**
regained what they have lost in weight.>>

I'm sure Chung will be glad to provide a "believable" link to substantiate
this ridiculous statement...........
However, it "could" be true if they're all dead........
 
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