lowering of metabolism after weight loss



"wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GaryG wrote:
>> So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
>> surgery?
>
> Neither of which work either. I didn't say give up. But you also have
> to have a realistic idea of what your are trying to accomplish.
>
>> A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you
>> can't...you
>> are correct."
>
> I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.

All your logic on htis topic suggests you are flapping your wings. No,
wait, that would be a form a exercise and a way balance one's caloric
intake. You are correct there are other factors that tug you in the
wrong direction and mostly self control. Eat a bit less(especially ****
sugar ****), exercise a bit more and you will slim down slowly but
steady. The science to lose weight is simple, take in less than you
need. The rest is willpower and only YOU can decide what quality of life
you want.

-DF
 
GaryG wrote:
> wendy wrote:
>
> > A while ago there was some discussion on if the body adjusts
metabolism
> > after weight loss to maintain the higher weight. Here's an article
that
> > talks about the issue:

It's a very common topic on ASDLC. Many focus on the
simple fact that calories in equals calories out. Then
they falsely assume that calories out is fixed and come
to the incorrect conclusion that reducing calories in
without any further detail must automatically reduce
weight. Metabolism does fall in many cases.

> > Why lost weight returns after dieting
> > http://www.news-medical.net/?id=2955
>
> > The data suggests that weight loss in obese, obesity-prone rats,
induced
> > by caloric restriction, is accompanied by metabolic adaptations
that
> > predispose one to regain the lost weight. In rats that are losing
> > weight, this is exhibited by a significant reduction in metabolic
rate,
> > measured as both 24-hour energy expenditure and sleeping metabolic
rate,
> > both independent of metabolic mass and energy intake. This
adaptation
> > persists after eight weeks of intake-regulated weight maintenance,
but
> > is no longer present with eight subsequent weeks of feeding at-will
> > where rats are regaining lost weight. While rats that are regaining
> > weight may have a shift in appetite that would contribute to their
high
> > rate of weight regain, the drive to increase food intake remains
the
> > most critical factor in the predisposition to regain lost weight.
This
> > adjustment clearly weighs more on the energy balance equation than
the
> > metabolic adjustment on energy expenditure observed in this or any
other
> > study.

This is why it's important to consider whether what you're doing
is reducing your metabolism.

> > While the data suggest that these metabolic adaptations might
hinder
> > successful weight maintenance, it should not imply that successful
> > weight maintenance is unachievable.

Not impossible, just too difficult for 90+% of folks.

> > I notice that after everyone of these pronouncements saying how
hard
> > weight is to lose they say something like it's not unachievable.
How
> > hard does something have to be before people stop trying to achieve
it?
> > Not very hard.

Good point but it still misses something. Folks can and do
find ways to keep their loss off. Ways that don't drop
metabolism and also that don't trigger appetite.

> That study reduced the rat's food intake rather drastically.
Specifically,
> "weight loss was induced by limiting calories to approximately 60
percent of
> energy expenditure". This would be equivalent to a person who burns
2500
> calories per day being limited to only 1500 calories per day.

This is part of the reason why I preach moderate slower
approaches. Very many what fad diet systems with the
fastest possible loss, but those are exactly the types of
fad diets imposed on these test mice.

> It's possible the effect on metabolism seen in those rats was due to
a
> "starvation" response.

Starvation response. Reduced resting metabolism. Two
expressions that mean exactly the same thing. Check.

> If they had lost weight the weight slowly (the same
> way they had gained it), it's possible the effect on metabolism would
have
> been different.

Yup. Non-extreme plans are hard to want, but it is the
non-extrem plans that work the best via wroking the longest.
For Atkins, staying on Induction is an extreme approach
while following all 4 phases on schedule is non-extreme.
 
Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Good point but it still misses something. Folks can and do
> find ways to keep their loss off.

Very few. It's interesting when our schools fail to graduate a large
percentage of students we want to change the schools to be more
effective. We don't say the students should be able to graduate no
matter how bad the schools are. Yet for weight, no matter hard it is for
someone to lose weight it's their fault and their fault alone. We don't
think about how to improve the entire system to help people, which is
really what needs to happen for masses of people to change. Talking
about individual successes is interesting, but in every other case we
call that ancedotal evidence.


>Ways that don't drop
> metabolism and also that don't trigger appetite.

The problem is appetite isn't the only mechanism that triggers eating.
The dopamine reward system is another largely independent system for
encouraging eating.

As for the diet, people don't stay on diets in general? Why is that?
It's rooted in our biology.
 
Doug Freese wrote:
>You are correct there are other factors that tug you in the
> wrong direction and mostly self control.

What if it's not a tug? Some people feel no tug at all. They will be
thing without effort. Others find it a tug then yank then a strong pull.
Why is there a tug at all? Why is it so hard to practice self control
when i don't have the same problems drinking water, for example? By
ignoring the why behind you are minimizing and trivializing that "tug"
when that's really the heart of the matter.



>The science to lose weight is simple, take in less than you
> need. The rest is willpower and only YOU can decide what quality of life
> you want.

People don't seem very interested in science. Talking about willpower is
as anti-science as it gets.
 
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:14:57 -0400, Ma¢k <[email protected]>
wrote:

>the why is it called the 2 pound Diet?

To have an excuse to eat 2 pd lard daily without feeling any guilt.
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
>
> Doug Freese wrote:
> >You are correct there are other factors that tug you in the
> > wrong direction and mostly self control.
>
> What if it's not a tug? Some people feel no tug at all. They will be
> thing without effort. Others find it a tug then yank then a strong pull.
> Why is there a tug at all? Why is it so hard to practice self control
> when i don't have the same problems drinking water, for example? By
> ignoring the why behind you are minimizing and trivializing that "tug"
> when that's really the heart of the matter.

It is the fear of hunger that drives many people to overeat.

Many would be helped if they would choose to recognize that hunger is a
healthy appetite.

> >The science to lose weight is simple, take in less than you
> > need. The rest is willpower and only YOU can decide what quality of life
> > you want.
>
> People don't seem very interested in science. Talking about willpower is
> as anti-science as it gets.

It does invoke issues of spirituality.

From a more scientific standpoint, people do need to learn how to
reliably **quantify** how much they are eating and what is the **right**
amount of food to eat & drink.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
>
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Good point but it still misses something. Folks can and do
> > find ways to keep their loss off.
>
> Very few.

That depends on the method.

> It's interesting when our schools fail to graduate a large
> percentage of students we want to change the schools to be more
> effective. We don't say the students should be able to graduate no
> matter how bad the schools are. Yet for weight, no matter hard it is for
> someone to lose weight it's their fault and their fault alone.

Many folks blame the diets and so there are literally more than 1000
diets out there.

> We don't
> think about how to improve the entire system to help people, which is
> really what needs to happen for masses of people to change. Talking
> about individual successes is interesting, but in every other case we
> call that ancedotal evidence.

Diets do not work for the "masses of people to change."

> >Ways that don't drop
> > metabolism and also that don't trigger appetite.
>
> The problem is appetite isn't the only mechanism that triggers eating.

Actually, when someone truly loses appetite (anorexia) it becomes very
difficult (and sometime impossible) to get that someone to eat.

> The dopamine reward system is another largely independent system for
> encouraging eating.
>
> As for the diet, people don't stay on diets in general? Why is that?
> It's rooted in our biology.

"Variety is the spice of life."

Diets reduce the variety in the food people eat.

Thankfully, the 2PD-OMER Approach does not do this and so folks can see
themselves using this method lifelong.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
In alt.support.diabetes Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote:

: "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
: > GaryG wrote:
: >> So, we should all just give up then? Look for help through drugs and
: >> surgery?
: >
: > Neither of which work either. I didn't say give up. But you also have
: > to have a realistic idea of what your are trying to accomplish.
: >
: >> A wise person once said, "If you think you can, or you think you
: >> can't...you
: >> are correct."
: >
: > I think i can fly by flapping my arms. I must be correct.

: All your logic on htis topic suggests you are flapping your wings. No,
: wait, that would be a form a exercise and a way balance one's caloric
: intake. You are correct there are other factors that tug you in the
: wrong direction and mostly self control. Eat a bit less(especially ****
: sugar ****), exercise a bit more and you will slim down slowly but
: steady. The science to lose weight is simple, take in less than you
: need. The rest is willpower and only YOU can decide what quality of life
: you want.

: -DF

I lost some 64 pounds about 18 years ago when first diagnosed. I have
held it off pretty consistntly since, with one interlude whan about 20
pounds came back on, but i was able to relose them.

what bothers me now is that with a creful diet of moderate carbs-60-100
per day- and controlled "good" fats, I am unable to loose more weight
which I would like to do. Unfortunately, my sciatica prevents me from
doing much exercise on my feet, like walking, treadmill, step machine,
eliptical machine, etc. I do know htat if I were not watching muy carbs
and ft, not oly would I have high BGs but would gain weight again.
Fortunately, either through age (69) or just getting accustomed to it, my
appetite is not so crazy as it was many years ago. Smaller amounts seem
to content me.

Wendy (Plese don't confuse me with the other Wendy posting on this bunch
of groups. I am a regular on asd)
 
In alt.support.diabetes Beverly <[email protected]> wrote:

: "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
: > GaryG wrote:
: > > You seem to be a very negative person...specifically, a "toxic
: personality".
: >
: > I see the light. Wishing makes it so. Picture me tossing rose buds in
: > the air. It's not negative to try and figure out what really is going on
: > without resorting to the brainless eat-less mantra.
: >
: > > Do you ever get referred to as "Whiny Wendy"?
: >
: > Only when i fart.
: >

: That would be "Windy Wendy"

: The eat-less mantra seems to work for all who have been successful in their
: weightloss efforts. It even works for those of us who have a few minor road
: blocks in our path - such as menopause, limited ability to exercise, etc.

I found hta when I first started to try to diet and loose weigh seriously
I changed the proportions of my meals, but ate much the same quantity o
the plate. I woudl take a modest portion of meat or fish, a small carb
serving and lots of low carb veggies, like succhini, spinach, green beans,
etc. this enabled me to eat the sme meals as my family an still loose.
As wight came down, I found I could do with a bit less quantity. I found
that feeling nice and full a few times a day helped keep me on the new
eating plan. It is the feeling of deprivation and humger that defeats us.

Wendy(the one from asd who just recently posted on this thred for the
first time)
 
On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:17:40 +0000 (UTC), "W. Baker"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Wendy (Plese don't confuse me with the other Wendy posting on this bunch
>of groups. I am a regular on asd)

Never:))


Cheers Alan, T2, Australia.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
 
In alt.support.diet.low-carb Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ignoramus21798 wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> > It all depends on how much you want it. Numerous people lose weight
> > and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.

> More than 625,550 people for more than 5 years without regain:


Make the 625,549. I hear that nice Mrs. Hadermeyer fell off the wagon
at her 50-year high school reunion. She muttered your name and crossed
herself as she grabbed for the big piece of cake with the '5' on it.

Dan
325/189/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes
 
Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
>
> In alt.support.diet.low-carb Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ignoramus21798 wrote:
> > >
> > <snip>
> > > It all depends on how much you want it. Numerous people lose weight
> > > and keep it off, not without difficulties. It is not impossible.
>
> > More than 625,550 people for more than 5 years without regain:
>
> Make the 625,549. I hear that nice Mrs. Hadermeyer fell off the wagon
> at her 50-year high school reunion. She muttered your name and crossed
> herself as she grabbed for the big piece of cake with the '5' on it.

In truth, a 67-68 year old Mrs. Hadermeyer is not in my database so the
number remains more than 625,550. Sorry if this causes you any
consternation.

You will be in my prayers, dear Dan whom I love, in Lord Jesus' holy
name.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
"W. Baker" wrote:
>
> In alt.support.diabetes Beverly <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> : "wendy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> : news:[email protected]...
> : > GaryG wrote:
> : > > You seem to be a very negative person...specifically, a "toxic
> : personality".
> : >
> : > I see the light. Wishing makes it so. Picture me tossing rose buds in
> : > the air. It's not negative to try and figure out what really is going on
> : > without resorting to the brainless eat-less mantra.
> : >
> : > > Do you ever get referred to as "Whiny Wendy"?
> : >
> : > Only when i fart.
> : >
>
> : That would be "Windy Wendy"
>
> : The eat-less mantra seems to work for all who have been successful in their
> : weightloss efforts. It even works for those of us who have a few minor road
> : blocks in our path - such as menopause, limited ability to exercise, etc.
>
> I found hta when I first started to try to diet and loose weigh seriously
> I changed the proportions of my meals, but ate much the same quantity o
> the plate. I woudl take a modest portion of meat or fish, a small carb
> serving and lots of low carb veggies, like succhini, spinach, green beans,
> etc. this enabled me to eat the sme meals as my family an still loose.
> As wight came down, I found I could do with a bit less quantity. I found
> that feeling nice and full a few times a day helped keep me on the new
> eating plan. It is the feeling of deprivation and humger that defeats us.

.... unless you choose to befriend hunger.

"If you can't beat them... join them."

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
"Stacey Bender" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The problem is appetite isn't the only mechanism that triggers eating.
> The dopamine reward system is another largely independent system for
> encouraging eating.

Wanna bet the number of people that have this problem is .0000001? This
rationale reminds me of years back when every overweight person had
gland problems. It became the excuse not the reason. I won't say that
self control is not difficult to control but let's not point at the
obesity running rampant as some uncontrollable psychological
malfunction. Want to have some fun and see reality, spend a day or some
hours at a checkout counter in a food store. Note carts with the heavy
people dragging the heavy kids - chips, dips, cookies, etc. Fruits and
vegetables are minimal if not totally missing. It's **** poor eating in
combination of too many calories!!


> As for the diet, people don't stay on diets in general? Why is that?
> It's rooted in our biology.

It's more because we have so damn many fad diets that who the hell knows
what diet is really correct? Even the fad diets(and yes this includes
that asinine Atkins) will get you lose weight but sad to say they do
not teach you how to eat correctly so bingo, as soon as you attempt to
return to "normal" eating you're screwed(so to speak). As soon as you
dub your eating at a "diet" and not eating properly you are doomed to
fail.

-DF
 
"Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> As soon as you
> dub your eating at a "diet" and not eating properly you are doomed to
> fail.

This is something that has bothered me, every time I use the word diet I
get that "temporary solution" connotation running through my head, even
though the word itself should refer to our total food intake - as in
omnivorous diet or whatever. It's certainly an easier word to use than
"lifelong eating plan" or "nutritional lifestyle", and is as apt to
describe those phrases - but unfortunately does carry that impression of
temporary weight loss eating plan and so is useless to use in its intended
fashion and primary definition: "The usual food and drink of a person or
animal," according to dictionary.com . It's too bad that whomever started
using the word to describe weight loss (or whatever other reason for eating
only selected foods) didn't use a different word and leave the "diet" word
alone.

Sherry
360/?/195
 
Doug Freese wrote:
>
> "Stacey Bender" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The problem is appetite isn't the only mechanism that triggers eating.
> > The dopamine reward system is another largely independent system for
> > encouraging eating.
>
> Wanna bet the number of people that have this problem is .0000001? This
> rationale reminds me of years back when every overweight person had
> gland problems. It became the excuse not the reason. I won't say that
> self control is not difficult to control but let's not point at the
> obesity running rampant as some uncontrollable psychological
> malfunction. Want to have some fun and see reality, spend a day or some
> hours at a checkout counter in a food store. Note carts with the heavy
> people dragging the heavy kids - chips, dips, cookies, etc. Fruits and
> vegetables are minimal if not totally missing. It's **** poor eating in
> combination of too many calories!!
>
> > As for the diet, people don't stay on diets in general? Why is that?
> > It's rooted in our biology.
>
> It's more because we have so damn many fad diets that who the hell knows
> what diet is really correct?

All the studies indicate that none help folks achieve lasting weight
loss that is clinically significant.

On the other hand, there is this simple lifestyle change that has helped
more than 625,550 people achieve weight loss over a period of more than
5 years without regain:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> All the studies indicate that none help folks achieve lasting weight
> loss that is clinically significant.
>
> On the other hand, there is this simple lifestyle change that has helped
> more than 625,550 people achieve weight loss over a period of more than
> 5 years without regain:

What a shame you can't publish a study showing the truth.
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
>
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> > All the studies indicate that none help folks achieve lasting weight
> > loss that is clinically significant.
> >
> > On the other hand, there is this simple lifestyle change that has helped
> > more than 625,550 people achieve weight loss over a period of more than
> > 5 years without regain:
>
> What a shame you can't publish a study showing the truth.

In time, the truth will be revealed to all including those who are
unable to discern it...

.... then every knee will bend and every head will bow to worship the
King of kings and Lord of lords.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> In time, the truth will be revealed to all including those who are
> unable to discern it...

I am not really a fan of revealed truth. You have a golden opportunity
to advance science, yet choose not to.


> ... then every knee will bend and every head will bow to worship the
> King of kings and Lord of lords.

I'll wait until it's on video.
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
>
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > In time, the truth will be revealed to all including those who are
> > unable to discern it...
>
> I am not really a fan of revealed truth. You have a golden opportunity
> to advance science, yet choose not to.

There is wisdom in abiding by the Lord's will and His timing.

You will simply have to wait. You state below that this would not be a
problem for you. Your response was anticipated by my Lord.

> > ... then every knee will bend and every head will bow to worship the
> > King of kings and Lord of lords.
>
> I'll wait until it's on video.

Again, glad to see that you have no problems with waiting as my Lord
predicted.

God is great.

You are living proof that my Lord can use the unbeliever as easily as He
can use the believer.


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?V113154DA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
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