lowering of metabolism after weight loss



Ignoramus760 wrote:
> I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and
> optimism are both unhelpful.

With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about future
weight gain?
 
"Ignoramus760" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ignoramus760 wrote:
> >> I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
> >> wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.
> >
> > Then what are they?
>
> As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
> order) that apply to me:
>
> 1. Looking better.
> 2. Feeling more energetic
> 3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
> 4. Not having acid reflux
> 5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
> 6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
> 7. Sex is much better
> 8. Better and more stable mood
>
> After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
> being slim still feels like a celebration.
>

I'll add a couple of my own.

1) Feeling "light on my feet".
If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of being
light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup truck,
and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile,
more responsive, and faster.

2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles,
with over 8,500 feet of climbing).

3) Feeling stronger
At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike
for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I are
going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those
things would be much more difficult if I was fat.

GG

> >
> >>>That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.
> >
> > That's the lot of the rational being.
>
> Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.
>
> --
> 223/175.9/180
 
"GaryG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Ignoramus760" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Ignoramus760 wrote:
>> >> I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
>> >> wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.
>> >
>> > Then what are they?
>>
>> As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
>> order) that apply to me:
>>
>> 1. Looking better.
>> 2. Feeling more energetic
>> 3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
>> 4. Not having acid reflux
>> 5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
>> 6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
>> 7. Sex is much better
>> 8. Better and more stable mood
>>
>> After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
>> being slim still feels like a celebration.
>>
>
> I'll add a couple of my own.
>
> 1) Feeling "light on my feet".
> If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of
> being
> light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup
> truck,
> and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile,
> more responsive, and faster.
>
> 2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles,
> with over 8,500 feet of climbing).
>
> 3) Feeling stronger
> At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike
> for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I
> are
> going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those
> things would be much more difficult if I was fat.
>
> GG
>
>> >
>> >>>That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.
>> >
>> > That's the lot of the rational being.
>>
>> Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.
>>
>> --
>> 223/175.9/180
>
>
<cross post left in as it relates to all>

How about just the general non-abuse to our poor
knees, feet and backs. Not to mention our hearts.

RK, t1 (just my .03)
 
Ignoramus760 wrote:
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:55:54 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Ignoramus760 wrote:
>>
>>>I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and
>>>optimism are both unhelpful.
>>
>>With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about
>>future weight gain?
>
> The statistics are, unfortunately, not encouraging.

Given all the short term benefits that doesn't seem consistent, does it?
 
"RK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
>
> "GaryG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Ignoramus760" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >> > Ignoramus760 wrote:
> >> >> I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
> >> >> wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future
benefits.
> >> >
> >> > Then what are they?
> >>
> >> As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
> >> order) that apply to me:
> >>
> >> 1. Looking better.
> >> 2. Feeling more energetic
> >> 3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
> >> 4. Not having acid reflux
> >> 5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
> >> 6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
> >> 7. Sex is much better
> >> 8. Better and more stable mood
> >>
> >> After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
> >> being slim still feels like a celebration.
> >>
> >
> > I'll add a couple of my own.
> >
> > 1) Feeling "light on my feet".
> > If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of
> > being
> > light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup
> > truck,
> > and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more
agile,
> > more responsive, and faster.
> >
> > 2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80
miles,
> > with over 8,500 feet of climbing).
> >
> > 3) Feeling stronger
> > At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my
bike
> > for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I
> > are
> > going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing
those
> > things would be much more difficult if I was fat.
> >
> > GG
> >
> >> >
> >> >>>That's great. I hope you are able to keep it going.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope so too, but I am not overly optimistic.
> >> >
> >> > That's the lot of the rational being.
> >>
> >> Yep. I do not believe that optimism is a good thing.
> >>
> >> --
> >> 223/175.9/180
> >
> >
> <cross post left in as it relates to all>
>
> How about just the general non-abuse to our poor
> knees, feet and backs. Not to mention our hearts.
>
> RK, t1 (just my .03)

Agreed.

Ironically, however, 10 minutes ago I took 3 ibuprofen to help relieve some
of the muscle soreness in my legs and back (the result of my bike ride
yesterday). But, I'd rather feel sore from overdoing it on occasion, than
have the chronic problems associated with being overweight and sedentary,
for sure.

GG

>
>
 
W. Baker wrote:
> : 25% or so won't get fat simply because that's their biology. I
would
> : like to be one of them :)

For years, I thought I was that way as well. Then I started gaining
weight. Now that I've been doing Atkins awhile, I understand why.
Many of the meals I like to make for myself are LC. In fact, I would
say I was naturally on induction 4 out of 7 days a week. To me, eating
as much as I wanted meant I would have a whole Wok of steamed
vegitables with alittle bit of meat. Certainly, there where times when
I would eat a whole pizza to myself, but that was undoubtably balanced
out by the rest of my food intake durring the month.

What changed? I got married and have a kid. My wife cooks many tastey
receipes that are not low carb, and I tried to have a "more balanced
diet". Hense the weight gain.

Now that I'm eating the foods I love and know how to prepare, I
dropping back down again.

Bill
 
Ignoramus760 wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 May 2005 08:37:18 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ignoramus760 wrote:
> >> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:55:54 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Ignoramus760 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I am not a pessimist or optimist, I am a realist. Pessimism and
> >>>>optimism are both unhelpful.
> >>>
> >>>With all the benefits why is it realistic to be concerned about
> >>>future weight gain?
> >>
> >> The statistics are, unfortunately, not encouraging.
> >
> > Given all the short term benefits that doesn't seem consistent, does it?
>
> Well, perhaps those who stay fat or regain weight, either have a
> different system of values than mine (and do not value those
> benefits), or, perhaps, they are not acting rationally, or, perhaps,
> being hungry changes their value system.

Not for those who have befriended hunger (Luke 6:21).


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?B2B851EFA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
DocBill wrote:
>
> W. Baker wrote:
> > : 25% or so won't get fat simply because that's their biology. I
> would
> > : like to be one of them :)
>
> For years, I thought I was that way as well. Then I started gaining
> weight. Now that I've been doing Atkins awhile, I understand why.
> Many of the meals I like to make for myself are LC. In fact, I would
> say I was naturally on induction 4 out of 7 days a week. To me, eating
> as much as I wanted meant I would have a whole Wok of steamed
> vegitables with alittle bit of meat. Certainly, there where times when
> I would eat a whole pizza to myself, but that was undoubtably balanced
> out by the rest of my food intake durring the month.
>
> What changed? I got married and have a kid. My wife cooks many tastey
> receipes that are not low carb, and I tried to have a "more balanced
> diet". Hense the weight gain.
>
> Now that I'm eating the foods I love and know how to prepare, I
> dropping back down again.

Carbohydrate intake does lead to a healthier appetite (greater hunger).

Ime, fear of hunger is what leads to weight gain.

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?B2B851EFA
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
 
On Mon, 2 May 2005 07:58:36 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Ignoramus760" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 02 May 2005 07:05:29 -0700, Stacey Bender <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Ignoramus760 wrote:
>> >> I re-thought this during the weekend and I now think that I was
>> >> wrong. Being slim has present benefits also, not just future benefits.
>> >
>> > Then what are they?
>>
>> As a presently slim person, I can mention a few (in no particular
>> order) that apply to me:
>>
>> 1. Looking better.
>> 2. Feeling more energetic
>> 3. Being able to tie shoelaces very easily
>> 4. Not having acid reflux
>> 5. Being more comfortable sitting in various cramped situations
>> 6. Being more fit physically (and this able to to more stuff)
>> 7. Sex is much better
>> 8. Better and more stable mood
>>
>> After having lost weight, I am feeling much happier, every day of
>> being slim still feels like a celebration.
>>
>
>I'll add a couple of my own.
>
>1) Feeling "light on my feet".
>If you're tuned into how your body moves through space, the feeling of being
>light can be similar to the difference between driving a large pickup truck,
>and driving a 2-seater sports car. They both move, but one is more agile,
>more responsive, and faster.
>
>2) Feeling "light on my bike" (especially yesterday, when I rode 80 miles,
>with over 8,500 feet of climbing).
>
>3) Feeling stronger
>At 52, I'm not afraid to try new physical things. I'll be riding my bike
>for a week in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in June, and my son and I are
>going to do some mountain climbing and backpacking in August. Doing those
>things would be much more difficult if I was fat.

I haven't been too overweight (the most overweight I've ever been is
20 lbs - not obese) so I can't truly say I'm speaking from personal
experience but... from what I've read and heard, it seems like you
guys are maybe missing the biggest benefit...

Studies and experiments seem to prove, over and over again, that
overweight people are strongly discriminated against... be it the
child in the classroom, the large lady in the clothing store, or the
hefty guy at the office.

Slim people, in general, seem to enjoy a favortism that leads to
better education, better jobs and career potential, better service in
resteraunts and stores, and just general, all-around better treatment
during most if not all social interractions.

I'm not saying that such discrimination is right (obviously), but it
is the way society is, and I think escaping that 'dark cloud' would be
a huge benefit to many obese people.

I guess maybe this was covered in points #1 (looking better) and #7
(sex is better) above?
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Exactly, and I just wrote that above in a very different
> > form. Most of the stress is on the common knowledge and
> > on what seems to be obvious. The approach does not work.
> > The fact that some *do* manage to keep it off means there
> > *are* approaches that do work.
>
> In the weight loss registry people who kept off over 60 pounds (i
think)
> for more than 5 years, 91% exercised their ass off. Most people
aren't
> willing to do that.

The weight loss registry is also impossible for people who
lost on low carb unless they have changed their questions
recently. But yes, most people aren't willing to do what
it takes. Or is it most people don't have any idea what
it takes? I suggest that the common knowledge is largely
incorrect.

> People have made a calculation, pleasure now is better than the
promiss
> of health in the future. Living longest is not the main outcome to
> optimize for. Food is the main soure of pleasure for most people. The

> calculation is rational.
....
> > Figure out how to
> > avoid fattening situations mentally. Firgure out how
> > to avoid binge trigger foods physically.
>
> That implies you think it worth the effort to do so. That implies you

> deeply feel losing weight is important. I truly think most people
just
> give lip service to the idea of losing weight because they think they

> should. In the end the pleasure of food wins because that makes
people
> happier now.

Combine the calculation and the level where it's worth the
effort. The result is the situation I am in. If I regain
more I get back spasms and the pain supplies motivation.
If I lose more I merely have a nicer number on the scale.
I'm 20 pounds above the next pants size to get much other
reward. So I ended up at the point where the calculation
makes sense. Gain more and I am punished. Lose more and
I need to do more work. For me the point happens to be
around half way between my starting point and my best loss.

> > And our biology has both physical and psychological aspects.
>
> I think as we find more about the physical aspects, as we have for
other
> issues, the psychological aspects have become the hocus pocus
baseless
> conjecture they are.

I think the more physical aspects we find the less attention
is placed on the psychology, and once pain issues are gone
the physical motivators go. At some point it becomes a
psychological game.

On the other hand there are systems that claim it is all
psychological. Maybe true for a small number of people
but most certainly false for many.

> > At this point I have the physical aspects learned. It's
> > not enough. I'm satisfied with my state in that my
> > original goals of no back pain and no loud snoring are
> > handled, but I am still above my best weight. Am I
> > sucessfull because I'm satisfied and my goals are
> > acheieved? Yes. Am I blocked by those facts from doing
> > what it takes for what others would expect for me to be
> > successfull? Also yes.
>
> Five years of any sustained weight loss is great. It's a daily battle

> thought isn't it?

It remains a daily battle. Maintenance is harder work
than my loss phases ever were. While losing I could
chart the previous several weeks and see that I was
trending down. I didn't lose every week but I knew that
the time scale for loss is month to month (and like
every dieter in history I hated the fact but hating a
fact does not convert it into fiction). Now in
Maintenance if I go a year without a new high I have a
victory. Different time scale, different reward system,
same level of effort. At least I'm low carbing and
there are weeks on end when I am never hungry.
 
Doug Freyburger wrote:
>I suggest that the common knowledge is largely
> incorrect.

Which knowledge is correct then?


> Combine the calculation and the level where it's worth the
> effort. The result is the situation I am in. If I regain
> more I get back spasms and the pain supplies motivation.

Then you go on drugs to compensate from any of the related symptoms.

> I think the more physical aspects we find the less attention
> is placed on the psychology, and once pain issues are gone
> the physical motivators go. At some point it becomes a
> psychological game.
>
> On the other hand there are systems that claim it is all
> psychological. Maybe true for a small number of people
> but most certainly false for many.

Pyschologists have been basically behaviouralists, treating humans like
a black box. That's clearly not the case. Thank god we have PET scans
and fMRI so we can go beyond the witch doctor stage of explanations.

> It remains a daily battle. Maintenance is harder work
> than my loss phases ever were.

I hope you can keep up the good work.
 
Stacey Bender wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > I suggest that the common knowledge is largely
> > incorrect.
>
> Which knowledge is correct then?

That's the $64K question. The things I know:

1) Everyone is different so plans that insist they are
the only way are all wrong. Some do great on low fat,
some do great on low carb. Some require specially
designed plans. Some are willing to do specialized
plans, some aren't. If an easy plan works for one
person (say South Beach) they have no need for a
customeized one (say Atkins).

2) Everyone is different so a plan that is a process to
determine correct portions/grams/whatever will beat any
one-size-fits-all plan if the process is well designed.

3) It's easy to design a terrible process that does not
work as well as one-size-fits-all.

4) Much newbie stress on rapid loss is a disaster for
staying on plans long term. It's a crash and burn
formula.

I don't know what is correct. I just know that it can
be figured out. I know that Atkins worked for me and
I know it took a lot of work because Atkins as it is
really designed is a fully customized process not a
one-size menu. Will Atkins work for everyone? If it
made that claim I'd call it wrong.

> > Combine the calculation and the level where it's worth the
> > effort. The result is the situation I am in. If I regain
> > more I get back spasms and the pain supplies motivation.
>
> Then you go on drugs to compensate from any of the related symptoms.

I refuse to take drugs to stop muscle pains. I know I
can drop fat and the muscle pains go away. In my case
the spasms wewre caused by my belly being too big. I
would rather remove the cause than mask the symptom.
IF I can find the cause. Often a big if but in this
one case not much of a mystery.

> > I think the more physical aspects we find the less attention
> > is placed on the psychology, and once pain issues are gone
> > the physical motivators go. At some point it becomes a
> > psychological game.
> >
> > On the other hand there are systems that claim it is all
> > psychological. Maybe true for a small number of people
> > but most certainly false for many.
>
> Pyschologists have been basically behaviouralists, treating humans
like
> a black box. That's clearly not the case. Thank god we have PET scans

> and fMRI so we can go beyond the witch doctor stage of explanations.
>
> > It remains a daily battle. Maintenance is harder work
> > than my loss phases ever were.
>
> I hope you can keep up the good work.

Thanks.

What choice do I have? Gaining more equals pain. Losing
more equals extra work. I am in a state were laziness
prevents further loss, but I have a hard and fast motivator
against further gain. I actually think I have it easy in
this way. I know what will happen with 10 more pounds. I
have gained them a couple of times and the spasms started
again and I lost again.
 
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