Lube for ceramic jockey wheel bearings

  • Thread starter Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott
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Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott

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My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 VW Type 2 -- the Wonderbus (AKA the Saunabus in summer)
KG6RCR
 
On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:52:05 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
>applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
>I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.


Dear Mike,

Assuming an oiled chain, we'd better hope that chain oil is an
acceptable lube for the pulleys that the chain runs over.

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:52:05 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
>>applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
>>I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.

>
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Assuming an oiled chain, we'd better hope that chain oil is an
> acceptable lube for the pulleys that the chain runs over.
>
> Carl Fogel


Good point.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 VW Type 2 -- the Wonderbus (AKA the Saunabus in summer)
KG6RCR
 
On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:48:09 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:52:05 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
>>>applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
>>>I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.

>>
>>
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> Assuming an oiled chain, we'd better hope that chain oil is an
>> acceptable lube for the pulleys that the chain runs over.
>>
>> Carl Fogel

>
>Good point.


Good point if the chain is actually oiled, but what about all the
people who use something like White Lightning or some other wax based
lube. Also, even if the chain is oiled, by what mechanism does the oil
find its way into the ceramic bushing? There are those little rubber
seals that are supposed to keep dirt (and other stuff, like oil?) from
penetrating the bushing.

To get back to the original question, I use motor oil. About every
other time I clean and rewax a chain I remove the jockey wheels, clean
them thoroughly, lube the bushings with a drop of Mobil 1, and
replace. Some of my jockey wheels have lasted tens of thousands of
miles.


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
 
michael-<< My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago.
I
applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.
>><BR><BR>


Take 'em apart and use grease-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
jevert-<< There are those little rubber
seals that are supposed to keep dirt (and other stuff, like oil?) from
penetrating the bushing. >><BR><BR>

I take those off and throw them away. They are responsible for more than a few
top pulleys becoming unscrewed, like a BB cup. Grease inside these and other
pulleys.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:56:57 GMT, John Everett
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:48:09 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:52:05 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
>>>>applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
>>>>I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Mike,
>>>
>>> Assuming an oiled chain, we'd better hope that chain oil is an
>>> acceptable lube for the pulleys that the chain runs over.
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel

>>
>>Good point.

>
>Good point if the chain is actually oiled, but what about all the
>people who use something like White Lightning or some other wax based
>lube. Also, even if the chain is oiled, by what mechanism does the oil
>find its way into the ceramic bushing? There are those little rubber
>seals that are supposed to keep dirt (and other stuff, like oil?) from
>penetrating the bushing.
>
>To get back to the original question, I use motor oil. About every
>other time I clean and rewax a chain I remove the jockey wheels, clean
>them thoroughly, lube the bushings with a drop of Mobil 1, and
>replace. Some of my jockey wheels have lasted tens of thousands of
>miles.
>
>
>jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3


Dear John,

If oil were somehow bad for ceramic bearings, it's unlikely that they
would be used near bicycle chains. I may be mistaken, but I think that
chain wax is used by a small minority of riders compared to oil.

An oil film might reduce the anti-friction qualities of a dry ceramic
bearing, but I suspect that there's no practical difference on
bicycle chain pulleys for two reasons.

First, there's scarcely any pulley drag discernable by a rider, so any
slight increase or reduction is probably on the order of trimming your
moustache to reduce wind drag.

Second, the road doesn't provide lab conditions, so there will be dust
in the bearing. The seals on pulleys are unlikely to be true seals.
That is, I expect that they're just rubber washers that mean well, but
which are not true seals--if you open the bearings after a month of
riding, I expect that they'll be noticeably dirty and oily.

Peter's suggestion to use grease seems quite reasonable. I was
startled by his warning that the rubber seals may cause the pulleys to
unscrew

Since pulley gears on bicycles are free-spinning idlers, their
bearings should last remarkably well. Plastic pulley gears eventually
wear to to wicked points under steel chains covered with road dust.

Out of curiosity, why do you oil your pulley bearings instead of
waxing them like your chain? I'm not arguing wax versus oil, just
wondering if there's something besides habit or convenience involved.
Have you ever tried wax in the pulleys?

Carl Fogel
 
[email protected] wrote:

> On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:56:57 GMT, John Everett
> <[email protected]> wrote:


>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 13:48:09 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:


>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 17 May 2004 12:52:05 -0700, "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel
>>>> Elliott" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:


>>>>> My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks
>>>>> ago. I applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted
>>>>> them down. But
>>>>> I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic
>>>>> bearings.


>>>> Assuming an oiled chain, we'd better hope that chain oil is an
>>>> acceptable lube for the pulleys that the chain runs over.


>>> Good point.


>> Good point if the chain is actually oiled, but what about all the
>> people who use something like White Lightning or some other wax based
>> lube. Also, even if the chain is oiled, by what mechanism does the
>> oil find its way into the ceramic bushing? There are those little
>> rubber seals that are supposed to keep dirt (and other stuff, like
>> oil?) from penetrating the bushing.


>> To get back to the original question, I use motor oil. About every
>> other time I clean and rewax a chain I remove the jockey wheels,
>> clean them thoroughly, lube the bushings with a drop of Mobil 1, and
>> replace. Some of my jockey wheels have lasted tens of thousands of
>> miles.


> If oil were somehow bad for ceramic bearings, it's unlikely that they
> would be used near bicycle chains. I may be mistaken, but I think that
> chain wax is used by a small minority of riders compared to oil.


> An oil film might reduce the anti-friction qualities of a dry ceramic
> bearing, but I suspect that there's no practical difference on
> bicycle chain pulleys for two reasons.


> First, there's scarcely any pulley drag discernable by a rider, so any
> slight increase or reduction is probably on the order of trimming your
> moustache to reduce wind drag.


> Second, the road doesn't provide lab conditions, so there will be dust
> in the bearing. The seals on pulleys are unlikely to be true seals.
> That is, I expect that they're just rubber washers that mean well, but
> which are not true seals--if you open the bearings after a month of
> riding, I expect that they'll be noticeably dirty and oily.


> Peter's suggestion to use grease seems quite reasonable. I was
> startled by his warning that the rubber seals may cause the pulleys to
> unscrew


> Since pulley gears on bicycles are free-spinning idlers, their
> bearings should last remarkably well. Plastic pulley gears eventually
> wear to to wicked points under steel chains covered with road dust.


> Out of curiosity, why do you oil your pulley bearings instead of
> waxing them like your chain? I'm not arguing wax versus oil, just
> wondering if there's something besides habit or convenience involved.
> Have you ever tried wax in the pulleys?


On my mountain bike, the pulleys frequently get gunked up and don't spin freely.
Dirt and oil mixture from the chain gets washed in there. This is usually the
culprit when I have shifting problems. These days I wind up cleaning my pulleys
every time I do my chain. Not so with the (Ultegra) road bike -- in 6 months
haven't had to clean them yet.

I thought ceramic pulleys were supposed to be self-lubricating. My XT pulleys
have little white ceramic bushings. ISTR Shimano making a fuss about these
being maintenance free when they came out. I'm sure lube doesn't hurt, but I
don't think it's necessary.

It seems to me all you need to do with your pulleys is keep them clean.
Otherwise, grease seems most appropriate, as Peter suggests.

Matt O.
 
On Tue, 18 May 2004 10:44:34 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:56:57 GMT, John Everett
><[email protected]> wrote:


>>To get back to the original question, I use motor oil. About every
>>other time I clean and rewax a chain I remove the jockey wheels, clean
>>them thoroughly, lube the bushings with a drop of Mobil 1, and
>>replace. Some of my jockey wheels have lasted tens of thousands of
>>miles.

>
>Out of curiosity, why do you oil your pulley bearings instead of
>waxing them like your chain? I'm not arguing wax versus oil, just
>wondering if there's something besides habit or convenience involved.
>Have you ever tried wax in the pulleys?


Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch but I still hot wax my chains, at
least on my road bikes. (I do use White Lightning on my MTB and
touring bike.) I'm more interested in cleanliness than lubricity. I'd
rather have a somewhat inferior lubricant in my rollers than a slurry
of road grit and oil, but I'm enough of a realist to know that oil is
a better lubricant than wax. This is why I use oil on my jockey wheel
bushings.

BTW, like Peter I also discard the rubber seals. I didn't mention that
in my pervious post in this thread because I don't expect most
cyclists are as anal about cleaning and relubing their jockey wheels
as I (and perhaps Peter) am.


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
 
"John Everett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 10:44:34 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:56:57 GMT, John Everett
> ><[email protected]> wrote:

>
> >>To get back to the original question, I use motor oil. About every
> >>other time I clean and rewax a chain I remove the jockey wheels, clean
> >>them thoroughly, lube the bushings with a drop of Mobil 1, and
> >>replace. Some of my jockey wheels have lasted tens of thousands of
> >>miles.

> >
> >Out of curiosity, why do you oil your pulley bearings instead of
> >waxing them like your chain? I'm not arguing wax versus oil, just
> >wondering if there's something besides habit or convenience involved.
> >Have you ever tried wax in the pulleys?

>
> Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch but I still hot wax my chains, at
> least on my road bikes. (I do use White Lightning on my MTB and
> touring bike.) I'm more interested in cleanliness than lubricity. I'd
> rather have a somewhat inferior lubricant in my rollers than a slurry
> of road grit and oil, but I'm enough of a realist to know that oil is
> a better lubricant than wax. This is why I use oil on my jockey wheel
> bushings.


I use a minimal amount of Phils, wipe my chain down, and I have no slurry of
road grit and oil.

Greg
 
John Everett wrote:
> I didn't mention that in my pervious post in this thread because I don't

expect most
> cyclists are as anal about cleaning and relubing their jockey wheels


Please don't use pervious and anal in the same sentence.

Bill "not to mention jockeys & lubing" S.
 
SDMike wrote:

> "Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott"
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>My Ultegra RD's jockey wheels started squealing a couple weeks ago. I
>>applied what I had on hand, some Boeshield, which quieted them down. But
>>I wonder what is considered an appropriate lube for these ceramic bearings.
>>
>>--
>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>71 VW Type 2 -- the Wonderbus (AKA the Saunabus in summer)
>>KG6RCR

>
>
> I have a small tube of 100% teflon left over from the mid-90s that I shoot in my
> pulleys. Seems to work.
>
> If you don't have any of that, I'd say pretty much anything heavier than Triflow
> should work.


Righty-o SDMike
--
Carlsbad Mike (Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott)