Mad cow in WA State

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Cindy Fuller, Dec 23, 2003.

  1. Cindy Fuller

    Cindy Fuller Guest

    Lucky us, the first suspected case of mad cow disease in the US has been found in a Holstein in
    Washington. We heard about this shortly after we left Central Market with some burger for dinner. SO
    decided to dispose of the burger without using it. So we had frozen poultry entrees for dinner. This
    is a helluva way to bring the cost of beef down.

    Cindy

    --
    C.J. Fuller

    Delete the obvious to email me
     
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  2. J.J.

    J.J. Guest

    Hark! I heard Cindy Fuller <[email protected]> say:

    > Lucky us, the first suspected case of mad cow disease in the US has been found in a Holstein in
    > Washington. We heard about this shortly after we left Central Market with some burger for dinner.
    > SO decided to dispose of the burger without using it. So we had frozen poultry entrees for dinner.
    > This is a helluva way to bring the cost of beef down.

    We won't be eating beef for a while either. Thank goodness for Washington Grown Chickens... ;-)

    --
    j.j. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~ ..fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!
     
  3. John Gaquin

    John Gaquin Guest

    I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated animals,
    but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events, probability of
    contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.

    Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

    JG
     
  4. "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated animals,
    >but only through brain tissue or the like.
    >
    The "like" being spinal cord.

    >Also that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a
    >double lightening strike.
    >
    A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so immediate, precise data have yet
    to emerge.

    >Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    >
    Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have their hazards (e.g. poultry full
    of antibiotics).

    One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of perspective: wait for a
    second case.

    --
    PB The return address has been MUNGED
     
  5. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    John Gaquin wrote:

    > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

    "The like" includes spinal cord tissue.

    Quoting from: http://www.paralinks.net/spinal_cords.html

    "If you're a fan of hamburgers, hot dogs, or luncheon meats, odds are you sometimes eat small bits
    of cow spinal cords. You can thank something called Advanced Meat Recovery (AMR) for that."

    "'Most AMR plants voluntarily remove spinal cords before processing, ' says the American Meat
    Institute's Janet Riley. But last year, in response to complaints from consumer groups (including
    CSPI), the USDA surveyed seven AMR plants in the U.S. The Feds found bits of spinal cord in two out
    of 11 meat samples."

    Quoting from http://www.cspinet.org/new/madcow_protection.html

    "More than 100 people in Europe have died of vCJD. The disease causes progressive brain damage,
    which results in difficulty walking and speaking, memory loss, decreased mental function, and,
    invariably, death. BSE and vCJD are transmitted from cattle to other cattle and to humans through
    feed and food contaminated with small amounts of infected cattle brain, spinal cord, or other
    nervous system tissue."

    "The CSPI petition urged USDA to ban cattle spinal columns and neck bones from processing through
    advanced meat recovery (AMR) machines. Those machines strip soft tissue (including meat and spinal
    cord) from bones and produce 40 million pounds of meat paste annually. That meat paste typically is
    used in the production of hundreds of millions of pounds of hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza toppings,
    and taco fillings."
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
    > probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.
    >
    > Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    >
    > JG
    >
    >

    Not eating beef for x-mas is overreacting. It's not a big deal. Besides, you bought your roast long
    before the Mad Cow crap came out. One cow on one farm in one state. Yeah, yeah, I know-who knows
    what else is out there? Is this going to make anyone a vegetarian? Doubtful. 'Sides, most
    vegetarians I know are fat-too much rice pasta.
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>,
    "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.

    In today's Seattle Times, one of the articles cited a research report which found that BSE prions
    were detectable in muscle tissue. This was in a study using lab mice. Further work is probably
    needed to determine if the same is true for cows and other food animals.

    > Also that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a
    > double lightening strike.

    Remember that very little is known about BSE and vCJD. Research on this stuff only took off in the
    late 1980s. Couple that with the fact that these diseases have a long incubation period (many
    years), and there is good reason to be very conservative in preventive measures.

    But the reaction of US regulatory authorities has not been very aggressive. Our laws prohibit the
    use of cattle feedstocks containing beef byproducts, but there is apparently a lot of noncompliance.
    I think the US law allows beef byproducts to be fed to other food animals (chickens, pigs, etc.).

    Some European countries are now testing all slaughtered cattle. We are currently testing only those
    animals which are show obvious indicators of neurological impairment, plus some additional spot
    checks. This means that cattle with BSE, but which have not progressed to impairment symptoms, could
    be entering the food chain. We really don't know how many humans are contracting vCJD, because (a)
    they may not show symptoms for many years, (b) the symptoms can be confused with other conditions,
    like Alzheimers, and (c) doctors rarely order the appropriate diagnostic or post-mortem tests.

    --
    Julian Vrieslander
     
  8. "robert" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:rqOdnS4uWZEkcXSiRVn-
    > [email protected]
    >> I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    >> animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
    >> probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.
    >>
    >> Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?

    Was Washington overreacting when they closed the border to Canadian beef last summer because of
    exactly the same situation?

    The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is contracted by consuming tainted
    beef, this much is known. Its appearance in Western Europe and the British Isles is consistent with
    recent outbreaks.

    How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes certain people susceptible and
    others not. So far, the bulk of cases, over 100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a
    few cases have appearad in France and Ireland. I suspect the sample is not large enough to draw
    conclusions, so if you want to add your body to the corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll
    pass, if you don't mind.

    Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not, you'll go veggie.

    --

    "I'm the master of low expectations."

    GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003
     
  9. Coastwatcher

    Coastwatcher Guest

    The really SPOOKY thing is that it was a "down" cow, meaning it was already sick! Evidently our
    wonderful gov't allows them to slaughter and feed us sick animals! According to the Portland
    Oregonian a measure was just defeated in Congress this past Summer which would have prevented this.
    Let's let our nitwits in WDC know we want this stopped!

    Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    > "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    >>animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.
    >>
    >
    > The "like" being spinal cord.
    >
    >
    >>Also that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a
    >>double lightening strike.
    >>
    >
    > A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so immediate, precise data have
    > yet to emerge.
    >
    >
    >>Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    >>
    >
    > Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have their hazards (e.g. poultry
    > full of antibiotics).
    >
    > One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of perspective: wait for a
    > second case.
     
  10. Michel Boucher <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is contracted by consuming tainted
    >beef, this much is known.
    >
    Believed. The case for believing it is strong, but the mechanisms are not understood.

    >Its appearance in Western Europe and the British Isles is consistent with recent outbreaks.
    >
    True.

    >How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes certain people susceptible and others
    >not. So far, the bulk of cases, over 100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a few cases
    >have appearad in France and Ireland.
    >
    I think that it is one case in France and two in Ireland (one of those two having spent many years
    in Britain).

    >I suspect the sample is not large enough to draw conclusions, so if you want to add your body to
    >the corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll pass, if you don't mind.
    >
    Feel free. But be aware that you probably take on many greater avoidable risks without worry -- for
    example, driving a car or crossing a street or changing a lightbulb.

    >Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not, you'll go veggie.
    >
    I ate beef today (in Ireland) and I'm not worried. I don't think that I'm a fool, but others might
    hold a different opinion.

    It's a strange fact that we go to great pains to avoid some hazards, and virtually ignore others.

    --
    PB The return address has been MUNGED
     
  11. "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
    > probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.
    >
    > Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    >
    > JG

    I would not be too sure of that:

    http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_2528879,00.html

    excerpt:

    Agriculture and meat industry officials, including Colorado's secretary of agriculture, say the
    practice is not uncommon. But to protect consumers, potentially diseased parts of the animal -
    namely the brain and spinal tissue - are removed, they say.

    The remaining muscle tissue, the officials say, is perfectly safe - a point echoed by U.S.
    Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman at a news conference Tuesday.

    But Bosque said there still are questions about eating the muscle tissue of a cow infected with mad
    cow disease, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy.

    He pointed to his own research that showed the infectious agent, known as a prion, can accumulate in
    the muscle tissue of mice, and a recent study showing that people with a disease similar to mad cow
    also can accumulate prions in muscle tissue.

    In addition, prions are found in the lymph nodes of infected animals, Bosque said, and lymph nodes
    can be found throughout the body, easily mixing into the muscle tissue at a slaughterhouse.

    But if you buy totally Grasas Fed beef you avoid the feed lot Mad Cow syndrom and eat healthy
    beef also:

    But if you eat totally grass fed beef, you get Mad cow free and healthy beef!

    You have plenty to choose from:

    http://www.lambandwool.com

    http://www.lasatergrasslandsbeef.com

    http://www.ervins.com

    http://www.eatwild.com
     
  12. Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Michel Boucher <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>The human form of BSE, variant Creuzfeld-Jakob disease (vCJD), is contracted by consuming tainted
    >>beef, this much is known.
    >>
    > Believed. The case for believing it is strong, but the mechanisms are not understood.

    Within reason, I think that the available evidence resolves itself in actual knowledge. The simple
    fact that vCJD has only appeared in individuals who have been in countries where BSE has been
    present indicates a high degree of relevance. If it was more widespread than BSE, then one might
    suppute a disconnection.

    http://www.oie.int/esp/publicat/rapports/en_bse%20who-fao- oie.htm#_Toc529794845

    >>How much needs to be consumed is not known or even what makes certain people susceptible and
    >>others not. So far, the bulk of cases, over 100, have occurred in Great Britain, whereas only a
    >>few cases have appearad in France and Ireland.
    >>
    > I think that it is one case in France and two in Ireland (one of those two having spent many years
    > in Britain).

    There was also one in Canada last summer.

    http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/bse/bse.jsp?id=ns99992656

    The article also states that six cases of vCJD have been identified in France as of last summer.

    >>I suspect the sample is not large enough to draw conclusions, so if you want to add your body to
    >>the corpus of knowledge, go right ahead. I'll pass, if you don't mind.
    >>
    > Feel free. But be aware that you probably take on many greater avoidable risks without worry --
    > for example, driving a car or crossing a street or changing a lightbulb.

    You assume that I cross streets and change lightbulbs. A fairly large assumption, I might
    point out :)

    >>Basically, if you're a fool, you'll eat beef, if you're not, you'll go veggie.
    >>
    > I ate beef today (in Ireland) and I'm not worried. I don't think that I'm a fool, but others might
    > hold a different opinion.

    I ate pork today, beef a week ago. My comment was to a USAian who was wondering if s/he should be
    concerned. I am not concerned about beef but I don't mind messing with their heads when the occasion
    arises :)

    --
    "I'm the master of low expectations."

    GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003
     
  13. Occupant

    Occupant Guest

    Padraig Breathnach wrote:
    >
    > "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > >animals, but only through brain tissue or the like.
    > >
    > The "like" being spinal cord.

    which they split in North America but not in Great Britain or Europe.
    >
    > >Also that in the normal course of events, probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a
    > >double lightening strike.
    > >
    > A fair approximation, I would think. But, as the effects are not so immediate, precise data have
    > yet to emerge.
    >
    > >Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    > >
    > >

    It is an over reaction if nothing happens but if you are in a life threatening situation it is
    valid. It is the same as the young drunk dirver who kills somebody on his way home from a Christmas
    party. The parents of the driver think that society is over reacting when they want to see the young
    lad go to jail for ever - which he won't. The parents of the deceased child killed by the drunk
    driver thinks that the justice system and the judge are not serving society if the kid only gets a
    couple of years of leg monitoring as opposed to a lengthy sentence.

    > Yes. Big time. Some of the alternatives people might use also have their hazards (e.g. poultry
    > full of antibiotics).
    >
    > One case of BSE in how many tens of millions of cattle? Get a sense of perspective: wait for a
    > second case.
    >
    > --
    > PB The return address has been MUNGED
     
  14. Occupant

    Occupant Guest

    Meat is reasonably expensive. Safe meat would be even more expensive. We don't want to encourage
    anyone to boycott beef in North America for two reason: The relatively safe non-beef products will
    remain relatively cheap for the rest of us because of modest demands. When thousands of North
    Americans test postiive for BSE in 5 or 10 years, then an economical solution will be found for keep
    beef safe. And again we win. So don't change a thing. It takes time, lots of times to find good
    solutions to problems, but most of the problems begin with lies.

    robert wrote:
    >
    > "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:rqOdnS4uWZEkcXSiRVn-
    > [email protected]
    > > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
    > > probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.
    > >
    > > Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    > >
    > > JG
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Not eating beef for x-mas is overreacting. It's not a big deal. Besides, you bought your roast
    > long before the Mad Cow crap came out. One cow on one farm in one state. Yeah, yeah, I know-who
    > knows what else is out there? Is this going to make anyone a vegetarian? Doubtful. 'Sides, most
    > vegetarians I know are fat-too much rice pasta.
     
  15. Drb

    Drb Guest

    "CoastWatcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The really SPOOKY thing is that it was a "down" cow, meaning it was already sick! Evidently our
    > wonderful gov't allows them to slaughter and feed us sick animals! According to the Portland
    > Oregonian a measure was just defeated in Congress this past Summer which would have prevented
    > this. Let's let our nitwits in WDC know we want this stopped!

    Down cows are not necessarily animals sick with disease. For example, a cow can fall and break a
    leg. While the cow would be down in the sense that it couldn't walk, it would not have a disease
    making it sick. The common usage of "downer" cow is one that is *injured* beyond repair, not a sick
    animal. This is not to say that there aren't weak cows who can't walk because they don't have the
    strength to get up, but my understanding is that these animals cannot be sold for human consumption
    while an animal that fell could be sold for human consumption.

    I think most of the bills about downer cows are from an animal rights perspective... .
     
  16. Bubbabob

    Bubbabob Guest

    "John Gaquin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I have read that CJ cannot be contracted by humans via muscle tissue from BSE contaminated
    > animals, but only through brain tissue or the like. Also that in the normal course of events,
    > probability of contracting CJ is similar to that of a double lightening strike.
    >
    > Are people over-reacting? Thoughts?
    >
    > JG
    >
    >
    >

    Nerve tissue is in every cubic millimeter of the meat.

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