Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

[wolfix]

It's time for the UN to intervene militarily,(solely to "liberate" the american people from their autocratic oppressors,of course) to bring "regime change" and introduce "democracy".

There are some very realistic problems with that. But the main one is that the 'foreign ambassadors" would be against it. If the UN was to intervene, the ambassadors would lose their "validation parking" and other benifits they have in New York. And do you really think they want to leave New York and go back to where they came from? I doubt it.
And back to reality. A few militant individuals in a jail does not concern the average American. The democracy that the average American faces is on the local level. And it seems to work.
And this UN intervention team would consist of exactly who? The French? The Iranians? Or a bunch of witch doctors from some tribal community?
The question I have is this....... If America is so bad, why do we have to guard our borders preventing other nationalities from entering???? And other then wanted criminals, I really do not see anyone trying to leave.
Several months ago a poster wrote that cuba was a great place to live. Interesting. The people are not allowed to leave freely. Mothers put their children to risk on rafts across dangerous shark infested waters to leave , and is the country really better off today then it was back pre-castro? What makes cuba a good place to live?

 

[Carrera]

I didn't say the police didn't arrest Hamza. We know he's been arrested since he's been in prison for some time already. Of course, I never thought it needed to go as far as arresting him. I think he should just have been told to stop his more radical sermons.
Yes, they arrested him in the end. But it took many months, even years to do so.

Actually you posted more lies.

You stated that the British police didn't arrest Hamza.

They did arrest Hamza.

You also stated that Hamza was in receipt of benefits and attempted create a stereotype.

 

[limerickman]

There are some very realistic problems with that. But the main one is that the 'foreign ambassadors" would be against it. If the UN was to intervene, the ambassadors would lose their "validation parking" and other benifits they have in New York. And do you really think they want to leave New York and go back to where they came from? I doubt it.
And back to reality. A few militant individuals in a jail does not concern the average American. The democracy that the average American faces is on the local level. And it seems to work.
And this UN intervention team would consist of exactly who? The French? The Iranians? Or a bunch of witch doctors from some tribal community?
The question I have is this....... If America is so bad, why do we have to guard our borders preventing other nationalities from entering???? And other then wanted criminals, I really do not see anyone trying to leave.
Several months ago a poster wrote that cuba was a great place to live. Interesting. The people are not allowed to leave freely. Mothers put their children to risk on rafts across dangerous shark infested waters to leave , and is the country really better off today then it was back pre-castro? What makes cuba a good place to live?

I think that you may well be referring to me in relation to Cuba.

If I can recall the context, you alleged that Cuba was a terrible place.
Have you ever been to Cuba ?
I visited Cuba in the 1990's and I found the Cubans to be great people.

The way of life over there has a lot of positives going for it.
Cuba's medical system is superb : they have the highest number of graduate
medical doctors anywhere in the world.
healthcare is free for all citizens.
In addition, education is free - teenagers young people can attend third level education for free.

Movement to the USA for Cubans may well be restricted.
I would suggest that given the level of US interference in Cuba, it is probably wise that the Cubans have this policy.
However, movement for Cubans to other countries isn't restricted.

Our country enjoys a great affinity with the Cuban people and their revolution .
Ireland supports Cuba through trade and cultural links (you can get flights from Shannon to Havana).
In fact when President Clinton visited Limerick in 1998, our city's Lord Mayor
in his address asked the Clinton to remove the US embargo of Cuba.
It was obvious that Clinton and his entourage had never been confronted about their embargo in such a public way.
made me proud to be Irish when our Lord Mayor made this case on Cubas behalf.

 

[Carrera]

Seems to me that the U.S. Cuba rift goes back to Krushchev. If I recall correctly, Fidel and Raul Castro were furious at Mr K for withdrawing the ballistic missiles over a deal about Turky and the U.S. bases on Turkey.
Fidel called Krushchev and "hijo de P++a!", so angry was he!
Fidel, at the time, wanted a more aggressive stance from the USSR and I suppose the U.S. will never forget that sour point till Castro goes. They have to honour their deal about not invading Cuba and will possibly let bygones be bygones when Fidel dies.
But maybe Fidel could have triggered a thermonuclear war. Of course, now he's mellowed as we all do in our old ages.

There are some very realistic problems with that. But the main one is that the 'foreign ambassadors" would be against it. If the UN was to intervene, the ambassadors would lose their "validation parking" and other benifits they have in New York. And do you really think they want to leave New York and go back to where they came from? I doubt it.
And back to reality. A few militant individuals in a jail does not concern the average American. The democracy that the average American faces is on the local level. And it seems to work.
And this UN intervention team would consist of exactly who? The French? The Iranians? Or a bunch of witch doctors from some tribal community?
The question I have is this....... If America is so bad, why do we have to guard our borders preventing other nationalities from entering???? And other then wanted criminals, I really do not see anyone trying to leave.
Several months ago a poster wrote that cuba was a great place to live. Interesting. The people are not allowed to leave freely. Mothers put their children to risk on rafts across dangerous shark infested waters to leave , and is the country really better off today then it was back pre-castro? What makes cuba a good place to live?

 

[limerickman]

I didn't say the police didn't arrest Hamza.

Message 8 on 11/2/06 : You wrote and I quote "The Brits didn't arrest Hamza anyway".

You lied then and you're lying again now.

 

[Carrera]

Hmmm, I lost my, er, innocence to a Cuban woman when I was somewhat younger. That was my first "proper girlfriend". Then others followed, many Russian and Hispanic ladies so I became quite a ladies man.

 

[Carrera]

It seems clear to me my meaning was the incentive to actually go out and arrest Hamza came after the U.S. extradition warrant. I didn't say he wasn't arrested by police in the U.K. when matters came to a head. If that's what you and others understood then I haven't made myself sufficienty clear somehow.
Of course he was arrested in the end.
The dispute with Fred was over the point that I believe the actual arrest had been forced by the bruhaha that Abu Hamza had made by many radical comments - especially over the shuttle disaster.
Fred disagrees, however, and his point was Hamza would have been arrested regardless of the extradition demand since Fred claims the U.K. Police would have acted.
I don't agree myself but that's just my angle. I think it's highly suspicious Hamza was only arrested just after that extradition order appeared and that years had passed without anyone taking any action over here - even when fellow worshippers at Finsbury Mosque complained.
That's what I was driving at.

Message 8 on 11/2/06 : You wrote and I quote "The Brits didn't arrest Hamza anyway.

You lied then and you're lying again now.

 

[limerickman]

It seems clear to me my meaning was the incentive to actually go out and arrest Hamza came after the U.S. extradition warrant. I didn't say he wasn't arrested by police in the U.K. when matters came to a head. If that's what you and others understood then I haven't made myself sufficienty clear somehow.
Of course he was arrested in the end.
The dispute with Fred was over the point that I believe the actual arrest had been forced by the bruhaha that Abu Hamza had made by many radical comments - especially over the shuttle disaster.
Fred disagrees, however, and his point was Hamza would have been arrested regardless of the extradition demand since Fred claims the U.K. Police would have acted.
I don't agree myself but that's just my angle. I think it's highly suspicious Hamza was only arrested just after that extradition order appeared and that years had passed without anyone taking any action over here - even when fellow worshippers at Finsbury Mosque complained.
That's what I was driving at.

I'm not interested in your retrospective attempt to justify your racist views.

There's a pattern developing here - you post racist statements and carry on
your merry little way.

Then when it is pointed out to you that your posts contain racist content you attempt to backpedal without retracting the initial view that you expressed.

I am getting tired of having to edit or to challenge your racist views.

The easiest thing to do is for me is to close your account.
I don't want to have to do that but I believe that I have given you suffient width to try to rectify the content of your posts.
Despite this - you have continued to ignore my requests to clean up your act.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

I'm not interested in your retrospective attempt to justify your racist views.

There's a pattern developing here - you post racist statements and carry on
your merry little way.

Then when it is pointed out to you that your posts contain racist content you attempt to backpedal without retracting the initial view that you expressed.

I am getting tired of having to edit or to challenge your racist views.

The easiest thing to do is for me is to close your account.
I don't want to have to do that but I believe that I have given you suffient width to try to rectify the content of your posts.
Despite this - you have continued to ignore my requests to clean up your act.

Wow censorship is alive and well at the soapbox. Well done Limerickman! Way to destroy the integrity of the box.

 

[Carrera]

For every alleged "racist" statement I'm accused of making (and in this daft country even Sir Andrew Green and ***** Hague were accused of racism), I could produce half a dozen statements made by other posters that are racist - since Jews are apparently an easy target and available for insult.
A racist is someone who believes other races to be inferior or some races to be good and others bad. I don't hold such a view so I'm not a racist.
Criticizing Hamza e.t.c. is not racist.
Sure you are able to ban me from the forum quite easily but you do yourself no favours as in real life, opposition to your own views can't be simply deleted by the press of a button. But it's your choice and there are other websites.
In real life ,however, you can't delete the guy riding on your wheel and you can't delete people who don't agree with you whenever the going gets tough.

I'm not interested in your retrospective attempt to justify your racist views.

There's a pattern developing here - you post racist statements and carry on
your merry little way.

Then when it is pointed out to you that your posts contain racist content you attempt to backpedal without retracting the initial view that you expressed.

I am getting tired of having to edit or to challenge your racist views.

The easiest thing to do is for me is to close your account.
I don't want to have to do that but I believe that I have given you suffient width to try to rectify the content of your posts.
Despite this - you have continued to ignore my requests to clean up your act.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Wow censorship is alive and well at the soapbox. Well done Limerickman! Way to destroy the integrity of the box.

Its not censorship, its fascism.

 

[limerickman]

Wow censorship is alive and well at the soapbox. Well done Limerickman! Way to destroy the integrity of the box.

Re-direct your statement to Carerra.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Re-direct your statement to Carerra.

He's is not trying ban someone for posting their views and opinions. You are!

 

[limerickman]

For every alleged "racist" statement I'm accused of making (and in this daft country even Sir Andrew Green and ***** Hague were accused of racism), I could produce half a dozen statements made by other posters that are racist - since Jews are apparently an easy target and available for insult.
A racist is someone who believes other races to be inferior or some races to be good and others bad. I don't hold such a view so I'm not a racist.
Criticizing Hamza e.t.c. is not racist.
Sure you are able to ban me from the forum quite easily but you do yourself no favours as in real life, opposition to your own views can't be simply deleted by the press of a button. But it's your choice and there are other websites.
In real life ,however, you can't delete the guy riding on your wheel and you can't delete people who don't agree with you whenever the going gets tough.

You are free to post whatever views you like elsewhere.

I asked you politely to desist from posting the views that you have posted.
I asked you politiely to retract your own statements that prove that you lied.

You have ignored all my requests.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

You are free to post whatever views you like elsewhere.

I asked you politely to desist from posting the views that you have posted.
I asked you politiely to retract your own statements that prove that you lied.

You have ignored all my requests.

Two down. How many more?

 

[limerickman]

Two down. How many more?

Are you volunteering?

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Are you volunteering?

I could really careless if you ban me. Ban many more and it will be just you here.

But what reason do you have to ban me?

 

[limerickman]

I could really careless if you ban me. Ban many more and it will be just you here.

For someone who couldn't care less, you're doing a lot of posting.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

For someone who couldn't care less, you're doing a lot of posting.

Sure do. If you ban me life would go on.

 

[limerickman]

Sure do. If you ban me life would go on.

That's correct it would.