Making Non-Sour Creme Fraiche

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Steve Wertz, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. Steve Wertz

    Steve Wertz Guest

    A few nights ago I made Creme Fraiche using a pint of (UHT) heavy whipping cream and about 5Tb of
    buttermilk. It took about 20 hours to set up in a 87-89F oven (just the pilot light).

    What came out was more of a sour cream. Not as sour as sour cream, but still sour-er than
    what I wanted.

    When I first tasted it after mixing the two together, it certainly tasted like creme fraiche, just
    very runny.

    How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    find it anyore.

    Would just adding rennet to 110F cream work? Bascially I just need to it to stiffen up, right?

    -sw
     
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  2. Kenneth

    Kenneth Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    >yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    >find it anyore.
    >
    >Would just adding rennet to 110F cream work? Bascially I just need to it to stiffen up, right?

    Hi Steve,

    Creme fraiche is (slightly) sour.

    I intend no disrespect when I ask if you have tasted the real thing. With regret, I don't know how
    close the techniques you are using might come to the French product, but you may already be there.

    To the question in the last line of yours above, I would say "No." Creme fraiche is not just a
    thicker, or stiffer version of cream.

    HTH,

    --
    Kenneth

    If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
     
  3. Steve Wertz

    Steve Wertz Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:02:32 -0500, Kenneth
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    >>yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    >>find it anyore.
    >>
    >>Would just adding rennet to 110F cream work? Bascially I just need to it to stiffen up, right?
    >
    >Hi Steve,
    >
    >Creme fraiche is (slightly) sour.
    >
    >I intend no disrespect when I ask if you have tasted the real thing.

    Mexcian markets make and/or stock a non-sour cream. Even their sour creams are superior to anything
    from Borden or Daisy and the like. They're usually much more expensive though. I'm trying to
    duplicate these (or at least their non-sour cremas).

    Common brands would be Cacique and La Mexicana.

    >With regret, I don't know how close the techniques you are using might come to the French product,
    >but you may already be there.

    It's good, but its slightly sour. The Mexican cremas aren't (and they don't contain any additives
    that would reverse that effect).

    >To the question in the last line of yours above, I would say "No." Creme fraiche is not just a
    >thicker, or stiffer version of cream.

    -sw
     
  4. Frogleg

    Frogleg Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >A few nights ago I made Creme Fraiche using a pint of (UHT) heavy whipping cream and about 5Tb of
    >buttermilk. It took about 20 hours to set up in a 87-89F oven (just the pilot light).
    >
    >What came out was more of a sour cream. Not as sour as sour cream, but still sour-er than what
    >I wanted.

    According to "The Food Lover's Companion"

    http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?DEF_ID=1270&ISWINE=

    crème fraîche is supposed to be somewhat 'tangy.' Unpasteurized cream will set up on its own, but
    commercial USAsian cream is pasteurized and requires an additional bacterial source, like
    buttermilk, yogurt, or sour cream as a 'starter'. If you can find some rich, unpasteurized cream,
    you may be happier with the result. Similarly, 'clotted cream'

    http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?TERM=clotted+cream

    is also the product of unpasteurized milk.
     
  5. Lorne Epp

    Lorne Epp Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >A few nights ago I made Creme Fraiche using a pint of (UHT) heavy whipping cream and about 5Tb of
    >buttermilk. It took about 20 hours to set up in a 87-89F oven (just the pilot light).
    >
    >What came out was more of a sour cream. Not as sour as sour cream, but still sour-er than what
    >I wanted.
    >
    >When I first tasted it after mixing the two together, it certainly tasted like creme fraiche, just
    >very runny.
    >
    >How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    >yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    >find it anyore.
    >
    >Would just adding rennet to 110F cream work? Bascially I just need to it to stiffen up, right?
    >
    >-sw

    I hesitate to stick my oar in here, because I don't have a *lot* of experience with this, but, for
    what it's worth: I think you should use about half as much buttermilk, and , at that temperature,
    let it sit only about 12 hours or even less. It will continue to thicken after you refrigerate it,
    so you don't need it to be at its final thickness before refrigeration.
     
  6. Ellie C

    Ellie C Guest

    Frogleg wrote:

    > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>A few nights ago I made Creme Fraiche using a pint of (UHT) heavy whipping cream and about 5Tb of
    >>buttermilk. It took about 20 hours to set up in a 87-89F oven (just the pilot light).
    >>
    >>What came out was more of a sour cream. Not as sour as sour cream, but still sour-er than what
    >>I wanted.
    >
    >
    > According to "The Food Lover's Companion"
    >
    > http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?DEF_ID=1270&ISWINE=
    >
    > crème fraîche is supposed to be somewhat 'tangy.' Unpasteurized cream will set up on its own, but
    > commercial USAsian cream is pasteurized and requires an additional bacterial source, like
    > buttermilk, yogurt, or sour cream as a 'starter'. If you can find some rich, unpasteurized cream,
    > you may be happier with the result. Similarly, 'clotted cream'
    >
    > http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?TERM=clotted+cream
    >
    > is also the product of unpasteurized milk.

    How would I go about making sour cream, perhaps starting with creme fraiche? Here in France I can
    get lots of that of course, but there seems to be no such thing as sour cream. I've been dreaming of
    potato pancakes with sour cream - the potatoes are no problem, but the sour cream is something else.
     
  7. Barry Grau

    Barry Grau Guest

    Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    > >yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    > >find it anyore.
    > >

    That's so funny. Malaka is a Greek pejorative that I have usually heard translated as "jag-off." If
    you just want to stiffen it up, whip it.

    -bwg
     
  8. Kenneth

    Kenneth Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:08:41 -0600, Steve Wertz
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:02:32 -0500, Kenneth <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>How do you make a non-sour creme fraiche? Everything I see on the net says to use buttermilk or
    >>>yoghurt as a starter. I thought I had a recipe for using some rennet (Malaka Brand), but I can't
    >>>find it anyore.
    >>>
    >>>Would just adding rennet to 110F cream work? Bascially I just need to it to stiffen up, right?
    >>
    >>Hi Steve,
    >>
    >>Creme fraiche is (slightly) sour.
    >>
    >>I intend no disrespect when I ask if you have tasted the real thing.
    >
    >Mexcian markets make and/or stock a non-sour cream. Even their sour creams are superior to anything
    >from Borden or Daisy and the like. They're usually much more expensive though. I'm trying to
    >duplicate these (or at least their non-sour cremas).
    >
    >Common brands would be Cacique and La Mexicana.
    >
    >>With regret, I don't know how close the techniques you are using might come to the French product,
    >>but you may already be there.
    >
    >It's good, but its slightly sour. The Mexican cremas aren't (and they don't contain any additives
    >that would reverse that effect).
    >
    >>To the question in the last line of yours above, I would say "No." Creme fraiche is not just a
    >>thicker, or stiffer version of cream.
    >
    >-sw

    Hi Steve,

    I guess I was thrown off by the name you used originally (Creme Fraiche) which is French.

    I know nothing at all about the Mexican version, ...sorry.

    --
    Kenneth

    If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
     
  9. "Ellie C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Frogleg wrote:
    >
    > > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:02:15 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>A few nights ago I made Creme Fraiche using a pint of (UHT) heavy whipping cream and about 5Tb
    > >>of buttermilk. It took about 20 hours to set up in a 87-89F oven (just the pilot light).
    > >>
    > >>What came out was more of a sour cream. Not as sour as sour cream, but still sour-er than what I
    > >>wanted.
    > >
    > >
    > > According to "The Food Lover's Companion"
    > >
    > > http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?DEF_ID=1270&ISWINE=
    > >
    > > crème fraîche is supposed to be somewhat 'tangy.' Unpasteurized cream will set up on its own,
    > > but commercial USAsian cream is pasteurized and requires an additional bacterial source, like
    > > buttermilk, yogurt, or sour cream as a 'starter'. If you can find some rich, unpasteurized
    > > cream, you may be happier with the result. Similarly, 'clotted cream'
    > >
    > > http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?TERM=clotted+cream
    > >
    > > is also the product of unpasteurized milk.
    >
    > How would I go about making sour cream, perhaps starting with creme fraiche? Here in France I
    > can get lots of that of course, but there seems to be no such thing as sour cream. I've been
    > dreaming of potato pancakes with sour cream - the potatoes are no problem, but the sour cream is
    > something else.

    Crème Fraiche is pretty close. How about trying quark?

    Charlie
     
  10. Frogleg

    Frogleg Guest

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:38:04 +0100, Ellie C
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Frogleg wrote:

    >> According to "The Food Lover's Companion"
    >>
    >> http://eat.epicurious.com/dictionary/food/index.ssf?DEF_ID=1270&ISWINE=
    >>
    >> crème fraîche is supposed to be somewhat 'tangy.' Unpasteurized cream will set up on its own, but
    >> commercial USAsian cream is pasteurized and requires an additional bacterial source, like
    >> buttermilk, yogurt, or sour cream as a 'starter'. If you can find some rich, unpasteurized cream,
    >> you may be happier with the result.
    >
    >How would I go about making sour cream, perhaps starting with creme fraiche? Here in France I
    >can get lots of that of course, but there seems to be no such thing as sour cream. I've been
    >dreaming of potato pancakes with sour cream - the potatoes are no problem, but the sour cream is
    >something else.

    Ellie, I thinik (no authroitatve source) that 'sour cream' is just thick creme fraiche, usually
    commercially produced here. It seems as if cream, either unpasteurized or with a culture added, will
    continue ferment/xour/thicken with time. Faster at room temperature. Come to think of it, commercial
    cartons of sour cream here will thicken a bit as well as develop what I suppose is whey (that I pour
    off) upon storage. They all look like a product of milk's yearning to be cheese. My carton of sour
    cream lists "cultured pasteurized milk, cream and non-fat(?) milk, and enzyme" as ingredients. Try
    leaving creme fraiche at room temperature for a day, and see what happens.
     
  11. Steve Wertz

    Steve Wertz Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 20:45:45 -0500, Kenneth
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 18:08:41 -0600, Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Mexcian markets make and/or stock a non-sour cream. Even their sour creams are superior to
    >>anything from Borden or Daisy and the like. They're usually much more expensive though. I'm trying
    >>to duplicate these (or at least their non-sour cremas).
    >>
    >>Common brands would be Cacique and La Mexicana.

    >I guess I was thrown off by the name you used originally (Creme Fraiche) which is French.
    >
    >I know nothing at all about the Mexican version, ...sorry.

    It's the same stuff from what I understand. Every time somebody asked for creme fraiche, they are
    always pointed to the Mexican dairy sections.

    -sw
     
  12. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Steve wrote:

    > It's the same stuff from what I understand. Every time somebody asked for creme fraiche, they are
    > always pointed to the Mexican dairy sections.

    Creme fraiche is *not* the same thing as Mexican crema.

    Bob
     
  13. Steve Wertz

    Steve Wertz Guest

    On 8 Feb 2004 22:22:06 -0600, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Steve wrote:
    >
    >> It's the same stuff from what I understand. Every time somebody asked for creme fraiche, they are
    >> always pointed to the Mexican dairy sections.
    >
    >Creme fraiche is *not* the same thing as Mexican crema.

    OK, what's the difference? In taste and in the manufacturing of it?

    -sw
     
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