Male rider, cockpit reach, WSD

[tx_newbie]

At what point in shortening a stem should I think, 'The cockpit is too big?' I ride a 52cm specialized allez elite (2005) with a 537mm virtual top tube, seat tube/head tube angle 74/72.5.

I dropped the stem from 100 (+6 degree) to 70 (+8 degree) with 3 spacers. The cockpit reach is much better, but I still noodle to the saddle nose after a few miles, and am definitiely pushing back on the saddle by 20 miles...by 50 miles, it's just annoying. The saddle position is 'KOPS' and this works for my knees; my back, neck, and shoulders feel best when the hub is blocked by the stem.

I'm 5'6 (32'' bike inseam) with (I assume) average torso/arm length. I'm starting to window shop for a new bike, and am not excluding WSD (I'm a man, BTW). Going to a 50cm Specialized Allez feels too small; conversely, a Giant TCR2 in size small would still require me to drop the stem to at least 80mm. (I prefer compact/semi-compact geometries)

So, again my question: If I'm still sliding forward with a 70mm stem, is the cockpit still to big? Is a WSD a logical consideration in dealing with the top-tube/stem/cockpit issue? (I prefer stems with a low degree of rise)

Thanks

 

[boon]

is your saddle flat (check this by using a spirit/bubble level)? also, when you slide forward, you become more upright. could this be due to a flexibility and/or core strength issue?

by the way, i'm 5'7" and i also ride a specialized allez elite 05 in 52cm with a 100mm stem. i don't have any fit or sliding on the saddle issues.


boon

 

[kleng]

I'm on a Giant TCR advanced compact frame - its a small 46.5cm, top tube is 53.5cm ,seat tube angle is 73.5 degrees, saddle height is 69cm from bb, I'm 5 foot 7 (176cm) and have a 32 inseam, with 27in arm length as well. I like the position with the stem about 3 inches below the saddle. Stem is 100cm and bars are 42cm wide. Saddle is perfectly level and cranks are 170cm

Here is the rough sizing page from Giant
http://www.giantbicycles.com/en-AU/technology/compactroad/

The latest american "Bicycling" magazine dispels a lot of the myths about
knee over pedals positions and hub hidden by the bars. It all boils down to what your comfortable with.

Are your arms slightly bent when your on the hoods or are they straight. ?
Maybe your brifters are at the wrong angle causing you to stretch forward ?
Give us a pic of your bike, so we can see if anthing stands out

 

[gfspencer]

Kleng has given you good advice and sent you in the right direction but I would tell you to take it one more step if you can. Go to a good bicycle mechanic and have him/her set up your bike. I have been riding bicycles off and on for 30 years. The only "setup" I ever got from a bike store was to stand over the bike and see how much space was between my crotch and the frame. So I tried to set up my bike myself. I read books and magazines. I experimented. I took measurments. I bought long stems and short stems. I moved my saddle up and back and down. And I finally got to the point where I thought I was okay . . . but I never had a really comfortable setup. Last week I bought a Giant TCR C1. The store owner insisted that I set aside at least an hour for a setup. He took my measurments and decided on a proper frame. He put me on the bike. He checked my shoe/pedal alignment. He checked seat height. He checked my reach to the handlebars (and changed the stem). When I left I had a perfect fit. In all my years of riding my bicycles have never felt that good!! Friday I went on a LONG ride. When I got in from my ride nothing hurt. (And I could have gone out again! ) Next week I'm taking my old mountain bike in and paying for a proper setup. It will be worth it.

 

[kdelong]

Are your arms slightly bent when your on the hoods or are they straight. ?
Maybe your brifters are at the wrong angle causing you to stretch forward ?

I hate to sound stupid but what are "brifters"? Is that an Aussie thing or is this another one of the biking terms that I am not familiar with?

 

[tx_newbie]

Thanks for all the input!!!

I actually was fitted at my LBS when I got the bike, but I suspect it wasn't a 'thorough fitting' (I had no previous experiences, so I didn't know how I should 'feel' on the bike). A shorter stem was swapped in (80mm) and the saddle height and fore/aft position adjusted; however, I've since had to drop to a shorter stem, rotate the handlebars alittle (though I still have some brifter reach issues), and tinkered around with the saddle to its current position (which, the bubbles tell me is level). I still have decent flexibility and core strength--I was a former gymnast and power-tumbler in HS/college--and currently alternate yoga/weight work 5-6 days/week, so I don't think core strength/flexibility is a big issue here.

As suggested, I will look into a (re)-fitting; there is another LBS that is a local favorite for fittings, so I'll go there...they may not be fans of the KOPS and hub-hidden-by stem...we'll see.

Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camara to post my bike (I'm old-school film camera...I can try to get a digital transfer, however, and post).

Thanks.

 

[kleng]

I hate to sound stupid but what are "brifters"? Is that an Aussie thing or is this another one of the biking terms that I am not familiar with?

Brifters = brake and gear shifters combined

 

[kleng]

TX_newbie

The competitive cyclist and wrench science fit calculators might help with sizing
as a guide,

Wrench Science (you need to create a user account - its free)
https://www.wrenchscience.com/Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fSecure%2fFit%2fHeight.aspx%3fstylecode%3dR&stylecode=R

Competitive Cyclist
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=FIT_CALCULATOR_INTRO

 

[thomas_cho]

I'm on a Giant TCR advanced compact frame - its a small 46.5cm, top tube is 53.5cm ,seat tube angle is 73.5 degrees, saddle height is 69cm from bb, I'm 5 foot 7 (176cm) and have a 32 inseam, with 27in arm length as well. I like the position with the stem about 3 inches below the saddle. Stem is 100cm and bars are 42cm wide. Saddle is perfectly level and cranks are 170cm

5 foot 7 is 170cm, and your cranks must be 170mm, and thats a mighty nice bike.

To the original poster, have you tried tilting the nose of the saddle slightly up? Might work for you. Different saddles have different countours, having it flat is just a starting point.

 

[kleng]

5 foot 7 is 170cm, and your cranks must be 170mm, and thats a mighty nice bike.

To the original poster, have you tried tilting the nose of the saddle slightly up? Might work for you. Different saddles have different countours, having it flat is just a starting point.

Thomas
Thanks for the corrections, the bike rides well but is a bit harsh on anything less than smooth roads, have had to back off on the tyre pressure back to 100psi.