Manolo Saiz arrested



discobean7 said:
What I don't understand is why this doping program (allegedly) extends so far beyond Liberty Segueros. The point of doping is to get a competitive advantage over your rivals, albeit an illegal one. If you allow your rivals access to your elaborate doping program, you've again leveled the playing field. Short of there being some kind of agreement between those involved (i.e. CSC dopes for the Giro, Disco for the TdF, and Liberty for the Vuelta) it just doesn't make any sense. I would expect a greater number of isolated doping programs that just service individual teams.
You are assuming the riders knew that 199 other cyclists were also doping.
It would not be beyond belief for ambitious and greedy suppilers who wanted to maximize their profit to sell their wares to the largest number of teams and largest number of riders, as if there were an exclusive deal. Thats why they hired a former director of a transfusion lab and had the money to buy high quality transfusing equipment.

Thats would suggest a LOT of money exchanged hands for a physician to leave a full time job,no?
We are talking millions of doallrs here folks.

Perhaps the riders simply turned their heads or wore rose-colored glasses or didn;t care. But this is very similar to the Austrian cross country ski coach (it was Austria right?) at the winter Olympics continuing to associate with a banned doctor.

What is clear is that the doctors have to be shut down, policed, and jailed since without them none of this can happen.

The implications of this are horrendous.
It is possible that Vino was not associated and that it was a money making operation to help Dvision three teams, and not riders trying to win the TdF, but its the big boys who have the big money right?

Follow the money.
 
saluki said:
There is some truth to what you say musette. But currently Vino would be a stronger contender than anyone DC has. And I don't think that Bruyneel can say with certainty that Vino can't win it. I think the odds are against Vino winning it, but they are not zero. Regarding the team members that Bruyneel has promised a shot, I would think that any such team member should have previously shown that he has a realistic chance at getting on the podium. And I have yet to see any such demonstration.

The other question is about Vino being clean. We are going to have to find out who those other 200 bags are for. I will be disappointed if one of them was for Contador. But I suppose it's very possible.
This is big news in France as French federation has tried hard for many years to make Spain like Italy in France with dope rules. News in france is that Discvery riders are on saiz list. With many others. news here also says that another backer with money can by Activve the company which owns the team with all riders and staff. Means they keep proTour licences but have diffrent name. Licences belong to team owner not sponsers. In French riders have 4 tests for each one month of year to test blood and others lines. All national has to be same to make all riders riding on same road. Like Festina it not long before news is leaked from guard to newspaper and names are in print for all to read.
 
What I'm having difficulty understanding is why 200 riders would all use the same doctor and same methods? I mean, don't people dope to get an advantage over their rivals? If virtually all the top riders are cheating in the same way, you still have the same level playing field you would have without the doping. So what is the point? I feel sick about all of this. Hope to god that Jan isn't involved. I've supported him through thick and thin and always believed in him.
 
I read somewhere that his name has been brought up having a recent relationship with the doctor. Has any more been said along this line ?
 
FrenchFanNoDope said:
This is big news in France as French federation has tried hard for many years to make Spain like Italy in France with dope rules. News in france is that Discvery riders are on saiz list. With many others. news here also says that another backer with money can by Activve the company which owns the team with all riders and staff. Means they keep proTour licences but have diffrent name. Licences belong to team owner not sponsers. In French riders have 4 tests for each one month of year to test blood and others lines. All national has to be same to make all riders riding on same road. Like Festina it not long before news is leaked from guard to newspaper and names are in print for all to read.
Please post the news in France where Disco riders are named.
 
FrenchFanNoDope said:
This is big news in France as French federation has tried hard for many years to make Spain like Italy in France with dope rules. News in france is that Discvery riders are on saiz list. With many others. news here also says that another backer with money can by Activve the company which owns the team with all riders and staff. Means they keep proTour licences but have diffrent name. Licences belong to team owner not sponsers. In French riders have 4 tests for each one month of year to test blood and others lines. All national has to be same to make all riders riding on same road. Like Festina it not long before news is leaked from guard to newspaper and names are in print for all to read.
If there was blood doping going on with the Mongolian Yak racing team the French press would say that Discovery riders were involved.
 
:D too true. but let's keep this thread as friendly as possible so that people will continue to post whatever news they might have w/o fear of getting flamed.
 
Good article, don't worry about these disco-lovers around here.......

Since ressiot made a nice article about armstrong......L'equipe and the WHOLEEEE french press is not loved. But I think you got that.......;)

FrenchFanNoDope said:
They name Ullrich et Basso and Spainain cyclist elite ! (Disvery). It says that alejandro Valverde not in liste.

Article L'equipe - http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20060525_104330Dev.html
 
alibat said:
What I'm having difficulty understanding is why 200 riders would all use the same doctor and same methods? I mean, don't people dope to get an advantage over their rivals? If virtually all the top riders are cheating in the same way, you still have the same level playing field you would have without the doping.

OK - conspiracy theory:

Blood doping supplier/handler has a few clients that cheat but in case he's ever caught he carries bags with names of 200 different riders so it'll be next to impossible to prove who his true clients really are once the hoax is exposed.
 
Since there are so many Spanish cyclists, we should consider not naming Spanish cyclists until they are named by more reliable sources (e.g., newspaper websites, radio, etc.) than biased speculation.
 
DiabloScott said:
OK - conspiracy theory:

Blood doping supplier/handler has a few clients that cheat but in case he's ever caught he carries bags with names of 200 different riders so it'll be next to impossible to prove who his true clients really are once the hoax is exposed.
LOL, the HOAX???????? So why was saiz carrying 60.000 euro in a briefcase with him? Why did you think the police caught them.....it was all planned from february onwards. They even secretly taped all the pro-cyclists who went in there to get a transfusion......

This was an investigation going on for months and they probably (I'm speculating of course) knew that there was something going to happen........

Certainly no HOAX, why would liberty stop as sponsor........there is a lot of truth to this story I'm afraid!
 
Good lord, what will become of Vino? I hope he can attach himself to another team before the Tour starts. Discovery must be a potential destination -- they are, of course, in dire need of a GC contender, despite what mussette might say.
 
Saiz was carrying 60,000 euros

25/05/2006
Although the Spain's Guardia Civil are refusing to release precise details of 'Operacion Puerto', it has been revealed that Liberty Seguros team boss Manolo Saiz was carrying a cold-bag containing blood and other products when detained.

More details are beginning to be released about Operacion Puerto, the investigation by a special anti-drug unit within Spain’s Guardia Civil, the UCO, that resulted in the detention of Liberty Seguros team boss Manolo Saiz and four others on Tuesday.

Spanish news agencies EFE and Europa Press have said that sources within the Guardia Civil have told them that Saiz was not part of the allegedly illicit blood-doping ring they have been investigating for the past three months, but does appear to have been one of its clients.

Saiz was in a Madrid café with former ONCE and Kelme team doctor Eufemiano Fuentes and with José Luis Merino Batres, the director of a haematology clinic, when the trio were recorded on videotape by the UCO on Tuesday. Saiz is reported to have entered the café with a briefcase that was later found to contain 60,000 (£45,000) euros worth of currency in both euros and Swiss francs. Fuentes is reported to have been seen entering the café, located in the same street as Merino’s clinic, with a cold-bag. Minutes later, Saiz left the café with the cold-bag and was later detained, when a search of the bag turned up bags of blood and alleged doping products.

As well as this meeting in the café, the UCO team are said to have recordings of many leading athletes from several sports entering and leaving Merino’s clinic. The recordings have apparently been made over the past three months, although former Kelme rider Jesus Manzano asserted on Spanish TV today that he had been treated in the clinic back in 2003.

According to Spanish sports dailies AS and Marca, Fuentes and Merino have allegedly been charging between 40,000 and 60,000 euros per season for blood ‘cleaning’ and other treatment.

The UCO team are also said to have found 200 bags of blood and plasma in Merino’s clinic, each carrying an identity code belonging to different athletes. It is not known whether the UCO team know the identities of the athletes involved, but Guardia Civil director-general Joan Mesquida said today that the UCO is still examining the evidence found at the clinic and five other sites. He did reveal that “more names of well-known personalities will come to light”.

While Saiz has been released – according to La Gazzetta dello Sport because he had a panic attack during questioning – the other four men detained by the UCO remain in custody. As well as Fuentes and Merino, they are former mountain biker Alberto Leon and Comunitat Valenciana’s assistant DS Ignacio Labarta, who is thought to have been another client of the blood ‘cleaning’ operation. CV’s team manager Vicente Belda is expected to be interviewed in the coming days as part of the investigation. Leon's role is alleged to have been one of 'carrier pigeon', transporting blood to and from athletes being treated.

In spite of the mounting revelations and the withdrawal of Liberty Seguros from the sport today, it seems that the Liberty riders taking part in the Giro will start tomorrow’s 19th stage. “I don’t see why we can’t start tomorrow,” said ‘Liberty’ team manager Pablo Anton. “We will do so with the jerseys we always wear.”

Meanwhile, team leader Alexandre Vinokourov has said that he still expects to ride the Tour de France "either with Liberty Seguros or with another team".

(Source: procycling)
 
"After completing today's 18th stage of the Giro d'Italia, Ullrich was quick to deny allegations that he had contact with Fuentes: "I have never worked together with Fuentes"."

TM website.
 
MJtje said:

Can't you even get the guess to an unwarranted inference right? Beltran never rode with Kelme. He came from Mapei and Banesto. Chechu was recruited from Kelme (along with Roberto Heras).
 
musette said:
Since there are so many Spanish cyclists, we should consider not naming Spanish cyclists until they are named by more reliable sources (e.g., newspaper websites, radio, etc.) than biased speculation.
if they are wearing the blue jersey of Discovery Channel you meant to say, I am assuming.

Y&R
 

Similar threads

T
Replies
2
Views
341
Road Cycling
Geraard Spergen
G