Manzano: ‘Testosterone effects almost immediate'

[House]

Yes, I prefer say "he is guilty", he has failed the test. This is the fact, now if you prefer you can say "No proof", you can, we must just wait a few hours.

Old times certainly, when they have doubts on tests,and with EPO test which is more difficult... and so, but now, all I have read, heard about from german, suisse, french experts on doping, they are all sure for THIS CASE!

Thanks for confirming that you think rules agreed upon by all parties should be disregarded.

 

[helmutRoole2]

They use the word "alleged" when talking about a star...or a normal person, but not when talking about cyclists.

Show me the biased piece of journalism that convicts Landis or that calls him a doper. You'll find statements like, "Landis failed a recent drug test," or "he tested positive for…" I'm so sure that you can't I won't even bother google searching it.

Look, yesterday I was painting my home on Miami Beach when I heard an advertisement on NPR for Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/) that stated -- get ready, this is really surprising -- "...a recent survey suggests that those who perceive a bias in the media are themselves biased."

If the shoe fits, you know the rest. If it doesn't, well, I'm just columnizing.

 

[limerickman]

Interestingly I was just perusing the UCI Anti-Doping rules and the closest thing it says to what you claim is that "a rider may accept the A sample analytical results and waive the B sample analysis" Chapter VII of the UCI Anti-Doping Rules. I guess the UCI disagreeing with will make no difference.

The protocols are quite clear.

If the athlete's A sample is positive - the athlete is deemed to be guilty and the burden of "proof of innocence" moves from the doping agency, to the athlete.

The athlete is suspended from competition until such time as the athlete can establish his innocence (either through a different result in the B sample or by some other means).

An innocent athlete cannot be suspended.
All athletes guilty of failing their first test - are deemed guilty and are suspended until such time as that guilt can be purged.

 

[Deli]

The protocols are quite clear.

If the athlete's A sample is positive - the athlete is deemed to be guilty and the burden of "proof of innocence" moves from the doping agency, to the athlete.

The athlete is suspended from competition until such time as the athlete can establish his innocence (either through a different result in the B sample or by some other means).

An innocent athlete cannot be suspended.
All athletes guilty of failing their first test - are deemed guilty and are suspended until such time as that guilt can be purged.

I guess the problem here is that McQuaid mis-spoke. He should know better.

 

[limerickman]

Yes, I prefer say "he is guilty", he has failed the test. This is the fact, now if you prefer you can say "No proof", you can, we must just wait a few hours.

Old times certainly, when they have doubts on tests,and with EPO test which is more difficult... and so, but now, all I have read, heard about from german, suisse, french experts on doping, they are all sure for THIS CASE!

You're correct, Pou Pou.

Landis guilt has been established at the time of writing.
He is deemed guilty at this present time.

It is now up to Landis to try to establish his innocence.

That is why the taking of the B sample is actually done to try to assist the guilty party to establish/confirm his innocence.
The doping agencies give the guilty party a chance to exonerate themselves, by taking the B sample.

 

[limerickman]

I guess the problem here is that McQuaid mis-spoke. He should know better.

Whether he spoke about this matter incorrectly or if he has been misquoted, is immaterial.

 

[House]

The protocols are quite clear.

If the athlete's A sample is positive - the athlete is deemed to be guilty and the burden of "proof of innocence" moves from the doping agency, to the athlete.

The athlete is suspended from competition until such time as the athlete can establish his innocence (either through a different result in the B sample or by some other means).

An innocent athlete cannot be suspended.
All athletes guilty of failing their first test - are deemed guilty and are suspended until such time as that guilt can be purged.

I suggest you read the UCI Anti-Doping rules. Chapter X specifically.

 

[Deli]

Whether he spoke about this matter incorrectly or if he has been misquoted, is immaterial.

I agree that it is immaterial to the Landis case, but it shows a lack of knowledge on the part of the top UCI members on doping procedures.

 

[limerickman]

I agree that it is immaterial to the Landis case, but it shows a lack of knowledge on the part of the top UCI members on doping procedures.

He could have been misquoted - who knows?

At any rate, landis has now got to establish his innocence - it will be interesting to see if the B sampel can exonerate him.

 

[Albatros]

This is my translation of the original article that appeared in AS about Manzano dopping practices confession. I'll only translate the paragraphs where he talked about the use of testosterone because the full article is five chapters long.

....Then you have Androgel. That's the famous testosterone, clinically used to treat men with impotence. It is a patch that you apply for two hours, and you need to keep massaging it. Here we have one and as you can see it has an adherent tape. You remove it and it has a sort of membrane. But you can only use it for two hours, otherwise you risk testing positive.

It is said that it helps the recovery process, but I don't like it. At ther time of dinner it is used a lot. You give it a massage and then take it off.
And cyclists are not stupid, we don't forget to take it off. When we are warned that we may test positive we are more alert.

Clandestine testosterone suppositiories
This testosterone is not used in training. In training we use Andriol. This is not nandrolone, but it is a "decanato" (decanate?) of testosterone. It comes in a jar with 60 pearls of 40 mgs each, and it comes from Portugal.

There are other products like Rastandol, made in Holland, but it is not sold in every country. Here in Spain we have Testoviron. We use Testosviron for training. It costs 12,50 Euros, and is inyected in the muscle. It goes straight to your ass and it hurts like hell.

This one is Enanato of testosterone. It is used within a schedule and tests positive during a certain time. There are many others. Also Toxandrolone treatments are applied.
BTW, I have also used other suppositories of testosterone that I believe they are clandestine as they don't have a label. It is said that you won't test positive with these.

When you are getting a treatment of testosterone and you are competing you don't test positive the first 4 days. You use it before the race and 4 days into the race. Then you stop.

Then you have the epistestosterone which is the HMG, the male hormone. You get this treatment so that the UCI can't detect a high testosterone level and a low epitestosterone level.