Marathoning as a bad career move?

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by anders, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. anders

    anders Guest

    How do bosses or prospective employers view marathoners? Is it a good
    idea to list marathoning as your hobby in your CV? Does a decent PB
    give personnel chiefs or headhunters with the impression that you are a
    strong-willed individiual who is capable of making long-time plans,
    committing himself to a stated goal and carrying a project to a
    succesful finish step-by-step (and thus the perfect man for the job or
    the promotion)?

    The author of a recently published German book claims that revealing
    yourself as a marathoner is more likely to brand you as someone who is
    a lone wolf rather than a team player, one who is obstinate rather than
    flexible in his thinking and - especially if you´ve proudly mentioned
    your sub-3 PB - one who probably puts his enthusiasm for running ahead
    of everything else. Besides, if you get to the interview, there is a
    fair risk that you´ll be seen as "rather scrawny looking, a bit
    unhealthy even", which wouldn´t tip the scales in your favour.

    OTOH you can try and balance this negative image by stating other
    private interests - participation in a team sport would be excellent -
    or by noting that you´re just a 4-hour-marathoner (which would
    inidcate that you lead a more normal life and that marathoning is only
    a part of a healthy life style for you).


    Anders (whose career moves have been mainly lateral)
     
    Tags:


  2. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "anders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > How do bosses or prospective employers view marathoners? Is it a good
    > idea to list marathoning as your hobby in your CV?


    I can only speak for me. When I was looking for people I would look for
    people involved with sports. I was biased with runners in general and
    even more biased for marathoners. In my mind that showed a personal
    commitment to compliment the rest of the resume. Since athletics was
    seldom noted I would often open an interview with a sport inquiry to put
    the person at ease. Then when relaxed I could dig into the person resume
    to separate fact from fiction.

    > Does a decent PB give personnel chiefs or headhunters with the
    > impression that you are a
    > strong-willed individual


    IMO I don't think time makes a damn.

    > The author of a recently published German book claims that revealing
    > yourself as a marathoner is more likely to brand you as someone who is
    > a lone wolf rather than a team player, one who is obstinate rather
    > than
    > flexible in his thinking and - especially if you´ve proudly mentioned
    > your sub-3 PB - one who probably puts his enthusiasm for running ahead
    > of everything else.


    German authoritarian BS! I am German. At best or worst, depending on
    one's value system, runners are type A. The degree of "A-ness" is the
    question. Again, my opinion, if I was interviewing a person that doted
    on PB's, redlining and meism, I would question his ability to work and
    play well with others. In fairness it's more about how it is said -
    attitude.

    > Besides, if you get to the interview, there is a
    > fair risk that you´ll be seen as "rather scrawny looking, a bit
    > unhealthy even", which wouldn´t tip the scales in your favour.


    Hopefully the 350 pound interviewer with the bon bons on his desk is
    bright enough, assuming his position, not to be so shallow. While a
    general discussion about team sports may add a drop of moisture to the
    cake, you better have good technical and interpersonal skills to go
    along with one's athletics. Would an athletic background tip the scale
    positive if all else was equal - maybe.

    < Anders (whose career moves have been mainly lateral)

    Too many lateral moves can show a desire to find the "right" job or show
    that you bore easily and not a good investment. Drum roll.

    -Doug - Retired and thrilled that I don't have to plow through resumes
    each month.
     
  3. >When I was looking for people>

    "People"? Don't you mean "boi's"?

    >I was biased with male runners>


    I'll bet you were...

    >Then when relaxed I could dig into the person resume

    to separate fact from fiction.>

    I guess "gut punching" and "scat fun" ads, attract a weird crowd.

    >IMO I don't think time makes a damn.>


    Well in your case you want to be sure you can catch the 12 YO boy you
    decide on.

    >I am German.>


    Yavol? I bet germany's raising the flag over that news too...

    >Hopefully the 350 pound interviewer with the bon bons on his desk is

    bright enough, assuming his position>

    What position did you make him assume, Doug? Or were you the "ankle
    grabber"?


    >Retired and thrilled that I don't have to plow through resumes

    each month.>

    So now you have the time to prowl the video arcades, playgrounds, and
    gay bars?
     
  4. In my view unless the person I was interviewing with indicated that
    they ran I wouldn't mention my marathoning past. The vast majority of
    the population don't have any concept of what training for a marathon
    consists of so they won't be impressed. One co-worker (who knows I run)
    thinks any physical event is a marathon, even if it involves no
    running.

    If the person interviewing me indicated that they ran I may make a
    point to mention that I'm a runner also. Just to make a personal
    connection.

    I don't mention interests that have nothing to do with the job I'm
    applying for on my resume.

    Andy
     
  5. ya know when i post dumb shit, i'm joking. you're serious aren't you
    ig? exceptional products and services and INDIVIDUALS are the result
    of teamwork.

    i was in central park running a couple of weeks ago on sunday and there
    was deena drossin kastor running toward me. she was accompanied by 2
    guys (seemingly coaches/trainers on both sides of her) and some guy on
    a bicycle with some sort of electronic device. she, like most all
    great runners has a team of people around her. there are exceptions
    but increasingly rare.

    what came first, the chicken or the egg? traditionally it takes a
    tream of 2 to create an individual.....and it takes a team to
    artificially create an individual.
     
  6. rick++

    rick++ Guest

    Most people I know are impressed.
    Only about 0.5% to 1.0% of people
    in the USA have completed a marathon.

    I dont why someone would list hobbies on a CV
    or resume that aren't business related. Sometimes
    hobbies come up during a job interview. When you go
    through the "gaunlet" of talking to 5 to 10 potential
    co-workers during a long interview day, sometimes
    the discussion veers from purely work matters.
    Housing location is important, especially for running
    or other hobbies.
     
  7. Dot

    Dot Guest

    anders wrote:
    > How do bosses or prospective employers view marathoners? Is it a good
    > idea to list marathoning as your hobby in your CV? Does a decent PB
    > give personnel chiefs or headhunters with the impression that you are a
    > strong-willed individiual who is capable of making long-time plans,
    > committing himself to a stated goal and carrying a project to a
    > succesful finish step-by-step (and thus the perfect man for the job or
    > the promotion)?


    Where I am, many people list their hobbies, esp. if they are outdoor
    activities, on their resume - and the right ones can obviously help
    since it indicates basic skills and attitudes that can help with jobs
    that may require work in the boonies.

    For professional positions, like faculty, we have 2-day interviews where
    the person is brought on site; given a tour of our facility and
    surrounding agricultural and park/forest areas; chance to talk with
    faculty, local farmers, local agencies, etc; given some free time to
    look at surrounding area, schools, etc. The search committee interviews
    the person behind closed doors using pre-selected questions that they
    are scored on. Applicant also presents a 1-hr seminar for general public
    although it tends to be our employees and those from related agencies
    and clients. Someone in that audience will almost invariably ask why
    they want this position and invariably in that or another response,
    their interests come out. Someone who is into non-motorized outdoor
    activities will likely be able to handle the position better *and* is
    more likely to stay in the long term, esp. if they like winter activities.

    While some applicants are local, most are from outside. While we aren't
    in the bush, we used to be a fairly small town 1 hr from urban setting.
    We've grown about 80% in the last 10-15 years and road construction has
    made Anchorage closer to 45 min away (assuming no road blockages or
    nasty ice). A lot of that (big boxes, etc, but not large museums or
    performing arts center or whatever) has moved out where we are. But we
    have lots of surrounding mountains, views to kill for - and winters from
    October to April (on average - sometimes less, sometimes more). If
    either the applicant or spouse appears not to be able to handle this
    living situation or the applicant doesn't have basic outdoor / survival
    skills (if natural resources position, not as critical for ag) or at
    least the interest to handle the job, they aren't going to be here long
    and hence not a good fit for a long-term position.

    Alaska is a love - hate affair for most. Some people come on vacation,
    and never leave; some come on their 1st job and never leave. Others hate
    it at 1st sight or at best are happy to leave when their visit is over.
    Others come and don't like it after 5 yrs. Or the spouse doesn't like
    it. Sometimes couples are able to adapt, some leave, some separate (one
    loved Alaska more than spouse). If the person isn't happy with living
    situation, their job performance will likely be sub-par.

    While road (I'm assuming) marathoning is a start - at least its an
    outdoor activity. Your skiing would probably have more weight in a job
    interview here. Better yet would be orienteering and/or trail running or
    hiking. Showing up with Sorels for the interview definitely packs bonus
    points (this actually happened). I don't think PB's would have an effect
    on perceptions here.

    Hey, you didn't say what job you were applying for ;) I'm just pointing
    out that depending on your job, outside interests can be an indicator of
    how well you would adapt to it and how productive you would be.

    Dot

    --
    "running is a mysterious journey that we take not just to beat other
    people or to stay in reasonable physical shape - but to find out more
    about ourselves" - Owen Anderson
     
  8. Sskb

    Sskb Guest

    anders wrote:
    > [much snippage]
    > The author of a recently published German book claims that revealing
    > yourself as a marathoner is more likely to brand you as someone who

    is
    > a lone wolf rather than a team player


    Some bosses need wolves, some bosses prefer sheep. Seriously, all
    things being equal in the U.S. you would probably pick the healthier
    person because first, you wouldn't want to hire someone, train them and
    they get sick (or die) on you and second, the less healthy person could
    drive up your company's health insurance premiums. One opinion anyway.
     
  9. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Ignoramus9874" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Team work and such are highly overrated by stupid, greedy business
    > consultants, motivational speakers and other parasites. Most jobs
    > require individual effort, attention, dedication and responsibility.


    Igor, you are so far out to lunch it amazes me. There are very few jobs
    that are completed in their entirety by a single person. The
    stereotypical chemist in lab all alone with test tubes and Bunsen
    burners discovering the answer to life is fiction.

    > Think sales, computer programming, being a clerk, business manager,
    > etc. All of these jobs require individual action and responsibility,
    > individual goal setting etc.


    I can speak after 31 years in computer programming. An
    architect/designer dreams the dream and spits out a document for others
    to review for legitimacy, etc etc. These people feed back comments and
    they get factored back into a design document at some degree of
    granularity such that grunt coders can make it happen. In concert,
    various testers produce test documents and test cases to be reviewed to
    insure the application and/or Operating system still behaves as claimed
    and performance is not lost or if lost, documented as to how much loss.

    In the real world this is an intricate set of people with a variety of
    skills that need to communicate as a group both verbally and in writing.
    You can have an individual that is a good programmer but he isn't shit
    if the design is piss poor. Shall I go through the other permutations
    to show how preposterous you statement is?

    >
    > A marathoner is, pretty much by definition, is an overachiever and
    > goal setter,


    Goal setter yes but so is a person seeding his lawn. Not to take a
    marathon lightly but overachiever is a bit grandiose. Maybe to you who
    plan to run one and starve themselves while doing it, feels like
    overachievement.

    >
    > Now, let someone else talk about how things are...


    Let me suggest that if you spit this theory out during an interview you
    will be shown the door.

    -DougF
     
  10. steve common

    steve common Guest

    "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I can speak after 31 years in computer programming. An
    >architect/designer dreams the dream and spits out a document for others
    >to review for legitimacy, etc etc. These people feed back comments


    <troll>
    .... and then go on to screw up his beautiful architectures with halfwit
    political and/or engineering decisions, thus driving him to distraction,
    which in turn makes him take up long distance running, to forget :p

    Kind regards
    Steve
    IT Architect
     
  11. Dan Stumpus

    Dan Stumpus Guest

    "steve common" <[email protected]> wrote

    >>I can speak after 31 years in computer programming. An
    >>architect/designer dreams the dream and spits out a document for others
    >>to review for legitimacy, etc etc. These people feed back comments

    >
    > <troll>
    > ... and then go on to screw up his beautiful architectures with halfwit
    > political and/or engineering decisions, thus driving him to distraction,
    > which in turn makes him take up long distance running, to forget :p


    .....although if you've got good communication and people skills, you can
    often bend things your way. If you've built up some loyalty / friendships
    over time, this happens a lot.

    Truth be told, you need to do good work while alone, and be good at working
    with people, too, to be most effective.

    Dan (yet another IT architect)

    =================
    "You know you're getting old when your blood type has been discontinued"
    --Phyllis Diller
     
  12. anders

    anders Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:

    > German authoritarian BS! I am German.


    The Germans aren´t any more authoritarian than most people; what´s
    wrong with them is that they´re, as a norm, more "kleinbürgerlich"...

    BTW you also have a street named after you in central Helsinki, a
    stone´s throw or two from Paavo Nurmen tie:)



    > Hopefully the 350 pound interviewer with the bon bons on his desk is
    > bright enough, assuming his position, not to be so shallow.


    FWIW the interviewer who made the quoted comment was described as a
    "recreational mountainbiker"...


    Anders
     
  13. anders

    anders Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > I don't mention interests that have nothing to do with the job I'm
    > applying for on my resume.


    I guess it depends on what a resume is expected to include in any
    particular country and line of work, but you would mention your
    "extracurricular activities" to show that you´re a complete all-around
    person and a good guy and to make your application stand out just a
    tiny bit from the dozens of others whose paper merits look just as good
    - because if it doesn´t *somehow*, you probably won´t get to the
    interview.


    The "scoop" of the article (in "Der Spiegel") is that the author´s
    find was almost sensational: marathoning is increasingly popular in
    Germany, big company bosses are doing it and marathoning has positive
    connotations in the public mind and many job-seekers seem to assume
    that their running interest (and achievement, even) would reflect well
    on them.


    Anders
     
  14. anders

    anders Guest

    Dot wrote:

    > Hey, you didn't say what job you were applying for ;) I'm just

    pointing
    > out that depending on your job, outside interests can be an indicator

    of
    > how well you would adapt to it and how productive you would be.


    It wasn´t about me, honest:) (My next career move is probably going
    to be early retirement, assuming of course that the nags won´t let me
    down...)


    It isn´t only in places like Alaska, though, that these factors weigh
    can tip the scales as the employer will obviously prefer someone whose
    family can be assumed to welcome - for instance, because the parents
    stem from the region and want to afford a bigger house or because the
    "husband is a keen skier who hates the winter in Helsinki"(1) - rather
    than sourly accept the relocation and, in typical European
    two-career/income families, whose spouse will be able to find a
    satisfying job rather than end up sulking and pining for the bright
    lights of the city they left behind.

    (1) to the great disappointment of the husband in question this
    argument only got the applicant as far as "close, but no cigar",
    because it turned out another applicant came with serious grant
    money...


    Anders
     
  15. Tom Wheeler

    Tom Wheeler Guest

    F work.
    I my own person.
    F rich and bosses.
    I like me jus the way I am.
    and that is more to my point.
    I love me just the way I am.
    so do you want to do something about it.
    fuw

    p.s doing a good job. w

    84 miles in 3 days.
    time to ride all
     
  16. Mike Tennent

    Mike Tennent Guest

    "anders" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >How do bosses or prospective employers view marathoners? Is it a good
    >idea to list marathoning as your hobby in your CV?


    As a manager who has spent 35 years hiring folks, here's my .02.

    I would just list running as an activity along with other hobbies and
    interests, UNLESS the job specifically required physical abilities
    (law enforcement, fire fighting, etc.) Then I'd be more specific.

    In the more typical case the intent would be to come across as a well
    rounded, healthy, individual with varied interests. A generic listing
    of running, biking, hiking, etc would be viewed in a generally
    positive light. Listing PR's and specific marathons would tend to
    raise questions about why they were listed.

    Now, if I was sitting in a room for an interview and I noticed a
    finisher's medal or poster from a local race on the wall, you better
    believe I'd find a way to bring up running.

    But absent that, appearing to brag about one's individual running
    achievements is probably not worth the risk.

    Mike Tennent
    "IronPenguin"
     
  17. Helix

    Helix Guest

    anders wrote:

    > [snip] ... marathoning is increasingly popular in
    > Germany, big company bosses are doing it and marathoning has positive
    > connotations in the public mind and many job-seekers seem to assume
    > that their running interest (and achievement, even) would reflect

    well
    > on them.


    Yeah, but in the US, marathon training takes away from time you could
    spend watching Jerry Springer or American Idol, so what would you talk
    with your co-workers about?
     
  18. Ignoramus9874 wrote:
    > Let's talk about how things ought to be...
    >
    > Team work and such are highly overrated by stupid, greedy business
    > consultants, motivational speakers and other parasites. Most jobs
    > require individual effort, attention, dedication and responsibility.
    > Think sales, computer programming, being a clerk, business manager,
    > etc. All of these jobs require individual action and responsibility,
    > individual goal setting etc.
    >
    > A marathoner is, pretty much by definition, is an overachiever and
    > goal setter, so, he would be good at all such jobs where the result

    of
    > the work is a personal achievement.
    >
    > Now, let someone else talk about how things are...
    >


    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Now THAT was funny!

    I'm certain that none of your coworkers like you, that's why you're so
    bitter towards teamwork and your employers.

    I would HATE to have you on my project team.

    Martha
     
  19. Ignoramus9874 wrote:
    > >
    > > Igor, you are so far out to lunch it amazes me. There are very few

    jobs
    > > that are completed in their entirety by a single person. The
    > > stereotypical chemist in lab all alone with test tubes and Bunsen


    > > burners discovering the answer to life is fiction.

    >
    > Not all interaction is teamwork.


    Every interaction with others IS teamwork.
    >
    > >> Think sales, computer programming, being a clerk, business

    manager,
    > >> etc. All of these jobs require individual action and

    responsibility,
    > >> individual goal setting etc.

    > >
    > > I can speak after 31 years in computer programming. An
    > > architect/designer dreams the dream and spits out a document for
    > > others to review for legitimacy, etc etc. These people feed back
    > > comments and they get factored back into a design document at some
    > > degree of granularity such that grunt coders can make it happen. In
    > > concert, various testers produce test documents and test cases to

    be
    > > reviewed to insure the application and/or Operating system still
    > > behaves as claimed and performance is not lost or if lost,
    > > documented as to how much loss.

    >
    > And yet, most of the time these people work by themselves to achieve
    > their individual goals. They are not like a soccer team or a
    > construction machine crew (examples of true teamwork).


    "true?" Interesting and incorrect. Every aspect of working with others
    requires teamwork, be it a clerk, as you mentioned or others. Business
    managers especially must have teamwork with those whom he supports and
    supports him. Unless you live in a cave (where you really belong),
    never underestimate the improtance of effective communication and
    teamwork.
    >
    > A bunch of people in cubicles who sometimes discuss "design issues"
    > (translate, what they should be doing for the next few days), are not
    > interacting to the same extent as the people in examples in the
    > previous paragraph. They interact at those moments when they need to,
    > but it is not much and it is about clarifying their individual goals.


    No, they are interacting on different levels, which do include
    teamwork. Well, maybe everyone at your work with the exception of you.
    You probably get left out of all the celebrations, birthday lunches,
    etc, don't you?
    >
    >
    > > Let me suggest that if you spit this theory out during an interview

    you
    > > will be shown the door.

    >
    > I have not interviewed for a while... When I do go to interviews, I

    do
    > not particularly hold back my opinions, as I hope that the
    > organizations where I would not fit, would indeed show me the door at
    > the moment when that would be a good thing.
    >

    I can't even think of one place where you would fit, oh yeah, a cave.

    Martha
     
  20. Tom Wheeler

    Tom Wheeler Guest

    after 10 zillions times asking beg ing and pleading for a responce a
    reply or just a plain I hate you you stupid idiot.is something.

    butt as we all no. it is better the leaders no and tell there other
    people how much they .what ever..... To me. as b segar once a said
    before he becamea political tool.
    I am jut a number.....
    a report to there officaial for thre own gain.....or tom just is this
    in time now.....

    use to it......

    cave sounds better thank you very much.
    I learning to live with out this business world.
    because. well it is just me.....:>)
    running bikeing the topics.
    10 ¢ cans my bag.......
     
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