Mars bar syndrome

[the.Mark]

congokid wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>, David
> Martin <[email protected]> writes
>> It does have to be the right shape. I find that my Koflachs
>> (plastic mountaineering boots) are just about fine for
>> walking in as long as it isn't downhill.
>
> So you can climb uphill, but not down. How do you get down
> then?

My mountain boots have bindings for my crampons on the way up and my
skis for on the way down.
--
Cheers
the.Mark

 

[Tony Raven]

wafflycat wrote:
>
> "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> wafflycat wrote:
>>>
>>> as every girlie knows, chocolate is better than s*x
>>>
>>
>> So today must be better than an orgy then ;-)
>>
>
> Oh yes :-D
>

I won't ask how you know ;-)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 16/04/2006 07:12, wafflycat said,

> and back to straightforwardness, clipping in and out *quickly* became
> second nature and I haven't regretted the change to clipless pedals for
> a second. The pedal system I use is Look. Love it to bits. Nathan
> regularly swaps between spd's, spd-sl's and Look pedals without problem.

I'm slowly coming round to the idea. Bearing in mind I already have
Shimano M-031 cycling shoes that will take cleats, and my pedals are
close to retirement anyway (not looking for excuses, honest!), what
systems do people use? Am I right in assuming that the tension, for
want of a better word, can be adjusted to make it easier or harder to
release? Will I be able to walk normally with cleats in these shoes
without doing a penguin impression?!?

I suppose what I'm asking is what to look for in a system? From a quick
look, it seems as if the MTB style of pedals would suit me better (I
ride a tourer).

Happy Chocolate Sunday!!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Paul
Boyd ('[email protected]') wrote:

> On 16/04/2006 07:12, wafflycat said,
>
>> and back to straightforwardness, clipping in and out *quickly* became
>> second nature and I haven't regretted the change to clipless pedals
>> for a second. The pedal system I use is Look. Love it to bits. Nathan
>> regularly swaps between spd's, spd-sl's and Look pedals without
>> problem.
>
> I'm slowly coming round to the idea. Bearing in mind I already have
> Shimano M-031 cycling shoes that will take cleats, and my pedals are
> close to retirement anyway (not looking for excuses, honest!), what
> systems do people use?

Shimano SPD (the original, not SPD-R or SPD-SL) is OK except in muddy
conditions, when the pedals tend to clog up with mud. The pressure area
is small, and so they're not nearly as comfortable as Look type systems
for on-road use, but you can walk reasonably normally in SPD type shoes.
In muddy conditions Time ATAK clear mud much better, and so I'm told do
Egg Beaters. Both ATAK and Egg Beaters are 'mountain bike' systems and
work with SPD compatible shoes, and you can walk fairly normally in
them. ATAK also has better float than SPD.

The great standard for road pedals used to be the Look Delta, which are
comfortable but relatively heavy and compatible shoes are tricky to walk
in. They're now being superceded by the newer Look Keo system, which are
also extremely comfortable and usefully lighter. There are other road
systems but the two Look systems are far and away the most common. With
both Look systems, different cleats are sold offering different amounts
of float, so you can use them with red cleats for quite a lot of float,
grey cleats for medium float, and black cleats for minimal float.

The lightest available pedal system is the Keywin, which is a road system
and the cleats are not comfortable to walk in; Speedplay X/1 pedals
(which you can comfortably walk in) are slightly lighter but the cleats
are slightly heavier making the whole system very slightly heavier. Both
Keywin and Speedplay systems offer good float.

For touring purposes, the only disadvantage of the original SPD system is
the relatively small pressure area, which some people find
uncomfortable. I have Look KEO on my good road bike, Time ATAK on my
mountain bike, but old SPDs on my winter bike/utility bike because
they're relatively ubiquitous and you can comfortably walk in the shoes.
There are cheap clones of the SPD system from Wellgo and others
(including Aldi!) but the Shimano ones are reasonable value for money.
Among other styles of pedal Shimano offer are ones with SPD one side and
flat the other, which is quite handy when you're first getting into the
idea.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Usenet: like distance learning without the learning.

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Paul Boyd wrote:

> I'm slowly coming round to the idea. Bearing in mind I already have
> Shimano M-031 cycling shoes that will take cleats, and my pedals are
> close to retirement anyway (not looking for excuses, honest!), what
> systems do people use? Am I right in assuming that the tension, for
> want of a better word, can be adjusted to make it easier or harder to
> release? Will I be able to walk normally with cleats in these shoes
> without doing a penguin impression?!?
>
> I suppose what I'm asking is what to look for in a system? From a
> quick look, it seems as if the MTB style of pedals would suit me
> better (I ride a tourer).

Any of the compact SPD-sized systems will suit.
Avoid the racing types (standard Look) which have big and wide cleats, and
only fit flat racing shoes (and cannot be walked in beyond a short waddle).
SPD (and related) types will recess into the shoes you have (cut around the
recess area with a sharp knife and peel back the rubber centre to reveal the
slots and screw-holes to fit the cleats); the cleats make a slight "click"
when walking, but I can happily walk along the town streets, around museums,
etc in them.

You've a choice between Shimano (SPD) and several "similar size, but not
interchangeable". Of the latter, Crank Bros Egg-beaters and Time Atac are
the most common.

Any of the Shimano systems can be adjusted for release tension. If going the
easy-common route with Shimano, suggest these options:

M324 pedal:
a) its got a normal side to it, so you can ride your bike in normal shoes.
b) it comes with multi-release cleats which release a lot easier when
learning (they release on a sharp heel pull-upwards, as well as twist out).
Good choice for those who are cautious or worried about being trapped,
though I prefer the standard types.

M520 pedal:
a) its compact and fairly light, dual sided, so pedal always comes round for
clipping in. No need to pay more for fancy models in unobtainium or other
exotic metals.
b) comes with normal release cleats, which need heel-twist outwards for
release.

If buying on-line, search around for prices, its possible to get M324's
for£30 or thereabouts.



- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Phil Cook]

Simon Brooke wrote:

>For touring purposes, the only disadvantage of the original SPD system is
>the relatively small pressure area, which some people find
>uncomfortable. I have Look KEO on my good road bike, Time ATAK on my
>mountain bike, but old SPDs on my winter bike/utility bike because
>they're relatively ubiquitous and you can comfortably walk in the shoes.
>There are cheap clones of the SPD system from Wellgo and others
>(including Aldi!) but the Shimano ones are reasonable value for money.
>Among other styles of pedal Shimano offer are ones with SPD one side and
>flat the other, which is quite handy when you're first getting into the
>idea.

Beware of the so called pop up SPD pedals M424 M545 and M647. They
look like ordinary peadals with a SPD binding inset. You would think
they will be comfortable to ride in ordinary shoes but they aren't.
They may help to spread the load on a pair of SPD shoes with inset
cleats but if you want a SPD to ride in ordinary shoes get the one
side plain types like the M324.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[Phil Cook]

Simon Brooke wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Alan Holmes
>('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>>
>> "wafflycat" <w*a*ffùãat*@âtco*nnåct.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "citizen142" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>I guess I'm stuck in my old cycling ways and will stick to toe clips
>>>> and straps.
>>>
>>> May a middle-aged, apprentice old-fart of a woman suggest a change to
>>> one of the clipless pedal systems? I was a reluctant convert to
>>> clipless but now would never willingly go back to toeclips. Clipless
>>> are just so much easier to get in and out of quickly, getting rid of
>>> that need to be able to loosen off a strap quickly... Some of these
>>> new-fangled, modern, techo-wizardry stuff is actually better than the
>>> traditional methods
>>
>> Why do you think it neccessary to tighten the strap on toe clips?
>>
>> I leave mine with enough slack to get out of quickly, much easier to
>> deal with.
>
>What's the point of having them, then? If they don't hold your feet, they
>aren't doing any good, and you'd be better off without them.

If they are loose they can still provide foot loaction assistance and
something to pull on when back pedaling to position the push off pedal
at 2 o'clock at a stop . I had clips on my commuter for ages without
straps at all. And back in the day when the road bike had them the
right was done up and the left loose when in town.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[John B]

Phil Cook wrote:

>
> Beware of the so called pop up SPD pedals M424 M545 and M647. They
> look like ordinary peadals with a SPD binding inset. You would think
> they will be comfortable to ride in ordinary shoes but they aren't.

The M424s we have on one bike are perfectly comfortable.
It is great to be able to pull the bike out of the shed and ride down the
shops without recourse to changing into spd shoes.
The inset simply compresses into the pedal when ordinary shoes are used.

I'd certainly recommend them to anyone who may sometimes need to ride in
non-cycling specific footwear and they give a good platform too for when
using spds.

They are well-priced too - £29.99 from Wiggle.

John B

 

[Phil Cook]

John B wrote:

>Phil Cook wrote:
>
>> Beware of the so called pop up SPD pedals M424 M545 and M647. They
>> look like ordinary peadals with a SPD binding inset. You would think
>> they will be comfortable to ride in ordinary shoes but they aren't.
>
>The M424s we have on one bike are perfectly comfortable.
>It is great to be able to pull the bike out of the shed and ride down the
>shops without recourse to changing into spd shoes.
>The inset simply compresses into the pedal when ordinary shoes are used.

Look again and you will find they don't. The mechanism is always proud
of the cage. It may be that your footwear has thick enough soles to
hide that fact but I find in ordinary shoes I have the front of the
mechanism pushing up uncomfortably into the ball of my foot.

>I'd certainly recommend them to anyone who may sometimes need to ride in
>non-cycling specific footwear and they give a good platform too for when
>using spds.
>
>They are well-priced too - £29.99 from Wiggle.

Yes they are nice and cheap. But when the ones on my Birdy
(commuter/utility) wear out I'll replace them with M324s.

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

 

[Peter Clinch]

Paul Boyd wrote:

> what
> systems do people use? Am I right in assuming that the tension, for
> want of a better word, can be adjusted to make it easier or harder to
> release?

This is true on SPuDs, on the Time ATACs/Aliums Roos and I use it's
irrelevant (ATAC is Automatic Tension Adjustment Something IIRC):
with those one you get to the right release angle out they pop, and
there's none of this tedious adjusting tension malarkey to worry
about. I find they engage more positively too, and are easier to
clean. But they cost a bit more, and aren't so widely stocked.
You can't get single sided platform one side/mech the other side
versions either.

> Will I be able to walk normally with cleats in these shoes
> without doing a penguin impression?!?

With an MTB/touring shoe generally yes, witha road shoe usually no.

> I suppose what I'm asking is what to look for in a system? From a quick
> look, it seems as if the MTB style of pedals would suit me better (I
> ride a tourer).

Yes. You can't really go that wrong with yer actual SPuDs or
SPuD-u-likes, though I reckon ATACs are better in practice.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Paul Boyd]

Thanks to all for your input. I like Nigel's suggestion of the M-520.
Mud isn't an issue (I hope!), and the M-424 looks a bit clunky. I
always wear cycling shoes on my bike, so the ability to wear normal
shoes isn't necessary in my case, but being able to walk normally in
cycling shoes is important.

One more quick question, when you buy, say Shimano M-520, do they come
with cleats or are they extra?

If I do buy them and fall off, I'll blame Helen!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[David Martin]

Mark Thompson wrote:

> Despite being loose my feet are in now danger of unplanned unclipping
> unless I'm doing silly things, like trying to bunnyhop or Really Going For
> It and at risk of snapping the chain. Shold really tighten themn up to
> help with the bunny hops - I've never been able to do them.

You don't need clips to bunny hop. In fact, if you learn without then
you'll be able to bunnyhop almost any upright bike. (I've not tried a
brompton, but I have done small wheeled shoppers, road bikes, MTB, sit
up and begs, my kids bikes etc.)

Part 1. Use your legs to hop your body in the air. The trick you will
learn is to take the bike with it.

Part 2. With the same hop, take a firm hold of the handlebars and pull
up to lift the front wheel off the ground. Practice this till you can
do it easily. Remeber to not pull against your body but to hop then
take the bike with you.

Part 3. This is harder and psychologically more difficult. Instead of
pulling up on the handlebars, twist them forwards to lift the rear
wheel off the ground. This is much easier if you have bar ends or hoods
on which to gain more leverage. It feels like you are going to throw
yourself over the handle bars.

Part 4. Now combine the two. with a mixture of pulling up and forward
twist you should be able to lift both wheels off the ground.

Part 5. Land. This will follow naturally from part 4.

Enjoy, and be the envy of those who need their feet strapped in to do
it.

...d

 

[Nigel Cliffe]

Paul Boyd wrote:
> Thanks to all for your input. I like Nigel's suggestion of the M-520.
> Mud isn't an issue (I hope!), and the M-424 looks a bit clunky. I
> always wear cycling shoes on my bike, so the ability to wear normal
> shoes isn't necessary in my case, but being able to walk normally in
> cycling shoes is important.
>
> One more quick question, when you buy, say Shimano M-520, do they come
> with cleats or are they extra?

Cleats included with pedals.

From what I remember, the plate pieces (which the cleats screw into) should
be in your shoes already (or in the box the shoes were supplied). The
shoes usually have some tape to place over the cleat nut (under the shoe
insole) to stop water coming in through the bottom.



> If I do buy them and fall off, I'll blame Helen!

Dangerous, given her alter-ego, the PSF...


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 16/04/2006 18:30, Nigel Cliffe said,

> From what I remember, the plate pieces (which the cleats screw into) should
> be in your shoes already (or in the box the shoes were supplied).

Uh-oh! They're not in the shoes already, and I haven't a clue where
they might be now, if I ever had them! They're not expensive, so I
might just buy a pair to be on the safe side.

> Dangerous, given her alter-ego, the PSF...

PSF????

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Tony Raven]

David Martin wrote:

>
> You don't need clips to bunny hop. In fact, if you learn without then
> you'll be able to bunnyhop almost any upright bike. (I've not tried a
> brompton,

A Brompton is disconcerting because the rear wheel stays down as the
frame partially folds (although not enough to cause problems at the
heights I can manage)

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

 

[Paul Boyd]

Well, that's done it! For £35, I've just ordered M520 pedals and the
multi-release cleat set, from St John St Cycles. That gives me the
cleat nuts, and a choice of which type of cleat to use. The
multi-release cleats give more options for releasing in a hurry!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Call me Bob]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:19:39 +0100, Paul Boyd <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Well, that's done it! For £35, I've just ordered M520 pedals and the
>multi-release cleat set, from St John St Cycles. That gives me the
>cleat nuts, and a choice of which type of cleat to use. The
>multi-release cleats give more options for releasing in a hurry!

The instructions that came with my M520's say they should only be used
with single release cleats.

I don't know why that should be, but I did notice that when I tried
them with a pair of multi-release cleats I had they wouldn't hold
reliably. I don't know if it was because the cleats were worn, or if
those pedals have a slightly different mechanism which means they
really shouldn't be used with multi-release cleats.

I don't find a problem unclipping single release cleats with a heel
movement in either direction anyway. Give a good positive twist in any
direction, cleat disengages.

Be careful with the multi's though, just in case, you may find they
don't work properly with that pedal.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 16/04/2006 19:50, Call me Bob said,

> Be careful with the multi's though, just in case, you may find they
> don't work properly with that pedal.

Thanks for the warning, but they are *supposed* to work with the M520,
according to the SJSC website. I've also checked the Shimano website,
and the technical data sheet does mention that these pedals can be used
with multi-release clips.

I guess I'll find out when they arrive!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[congokid]

In article <[email protected]>, Paul
Boyd <[email protected]> writes
>Well, that's done it! For £35, I've just ordered M520 pedals and the
>multi-release cleat set, from St John St Cycles. That gives me the
>cleat nuts, and a choice of which type of cleat to use. The
>multi-release cleats give more options for releasing in a hurry!

Happy landings!

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

 

[Paul Boyd]

On 16/04/2006 21:43, congokid said,

> Happy landings!

Thank you for your vote of confidence

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/