Mavic Cosmos - spoke tension and truing

[Peter Cole]

jim beam wrote:

> >
> now let's see... something works, but you don't care to take
advantage
> of it. you want fact but you shun instrumentation.

Well, according to the leading authority (until this last round of
posts), there was no usable tensiometer (if that's what you're
referring to).

I don't "shun instrumentation", I'm just pragmatic. I'm not spending
$60-300 on a tensiometer just to tweak probably less than 1 pair of
wheels per year. Besides, after dropping $25 on the book, I learned
that the device was optional. My method works for me, my wheels have
been reliable over many miles and many years. This was not so when I
followed other methods.

The idea that maximum tension is reached when "nipples get hard to
turn" for heavier (aero/MTB/touring) rims, while vague, at least sets a
rough upper limit. I'd say my wheels typically aren't quite that tight.
The implication of this is that my wheels are slightly under-tensioned,
so (according to Jobst) weaker by some amount. Since I haven't warped
(never mind taco'ed) any rims on my road or off-road bikes in several
years of hard (on/off-road) riding, I'll just continue to take my
chances.

> /and/ you enjoy
> free advice on an open forum but you're not prepared to contribute
back
> to the source?

I have no idea what you're talking about here. What contribution am I
witholding, and what is the "source"?

 

[jim beam]

Peter Cole wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>
>>now let's see... something works, but you don't care to take
>
> advantage
>
>>of it. you want fact but you shun instrumentation.
>
>
> Well, according to the leading authority (until this last round of
> posts), there was no usable tensiometer (if that's what you're
> referring to).
>
> I don't "shun instrumentation", I'm just pragmatic. I'm not spending
> $60-300 on a tensiometer just to tweak probably less than 1 pair of
> wheels per year. Besides, after dropping $25 on the book, I learned
> that the device was optional. My method works for me, my wheels have
> been reliable over many miles and many years. This was not so when I
> followed other methods.

the only good thing in that book is the advice about bedding the spokes
in [somethign that pre-dates jobst substantially btw]. /that's/ the
"magical method" to which you're attributing all your success. my point
is, if you don't know "your" tension, you can't either share that
information with the group, or more importantly, replicate it in
subsequent builds. the $60 tensiometer is perfectly adequate for this
job given that any spoke can have up to 20% tension variance due to
manufacture quirks.

>
> The idea that maximum tension is reached when "nipples get hard to
> turn" for heavier (aero/MTB/touring) rims, while vague, at least sets a
> rough upper limit. I'd say my wheels typically aren't quite that tight.
> The implication of this is that my wheels are slightly under-tensioned,
> so (according to Jobst) weaker by some amount. Since I haven't warped
> (never mind taco'ed) any rims on my road or off-road bikes in several
> years of hard (on/off-road) riding, I'll just continue to take my
> chances.
>
>
>>/and/ you enjoy
>>free advice on an open forum but you're not prepared to contribute
>
> back
>
>>to the source?
>
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about here. What contribution am I
> witholding, and what is the "source"?
>
er, weren't you the one refusing to participate in researching the
trueness of a properly bedded in threadlocked wheel at 10, 100 & 1000
miles? this is an open forum archived my google. get the data & return
it to the forum. this is particularly relevant for you as heavy rider.

 

[Peter Cole]

jim beam wrote:
>
> the only good thing in that book is the advice about bedding the
spokes
> in [somethign that pre-dates jobst substantially btw]. /that's/ the
> "magical method" to which you're attributing all your success.

Please omit the gratuitous slaps at Jobst, it doesn't add anything.

> my point
> is, if you don't know "your" tension, you can't either share that
> information with the group, or more importantly, replicate it in
> subsequent builds. the $60 tensiometer is perfectly adequate for
this
> job given that any spoke can have up to 20% tension variance due to
> manufacture quirks.

Perhaps, but I don't feel I need it to build reliable wheels. I was
sharing my technique to do that, so that other heavy riders
(particularly those who don't have a tensiometer) might find that
narrow window between loosening spokes and splitting rims. You share
what you want to share, I'll do likewise.

> er, weren't you the one refusing to participate in researching the
> trueness of a properly bedded in threadlocked wheel at 10, 100 & 1000

> miles? this is an open forum archived my google. get the data &
return
> it to the forum. this is particularly relevant for you as heavy
rider.

Oh, you were serious? Why don't you build wheels my way, you won't need
that stinking threadlock. Been there, done that, got the sticky spokes.