J
Javier
Guest
Any opinions on Mavic Cosmos wheel set? My LBS recomneded them as a
good upgrade to my stock Alex AT450's.
Thanks,
Javier
good upgrade to my stock Alex AT450's.
Thanks,
Javier
Q
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Guest
Javier wrote:
> Any opinions on Mavic Cosmos wheel set? My LBS recomneded them as a
> good upgrade to my stock Alex AT450's.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier
AWFUL rear hub, poor build most times. What probelm are you looking to
solve, what question are you looking to answer with regards to the Alex
wheels?
'Upgrade' how? Reliability(not), weight(not much less), make you
faster?...nope...
A good upgrade in terms of reliable is to have a wheelset designed for
you and your specific needs...BUT sounds like the LBS doesn't do that,
as long as they are rec-ing Cosmos.
> Any opinions on Mavic Cosmos wheel set? My LBS recomneded them as a
> good upgrade to my stock Alex AT450's.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Javier
AWFUL rear hub, poor build most times. What probelm are you looking to
solve, what question are you looking to answer with regards to the Alex
wheels?
'Upgrade' how? Reliability(not), weight(not much less), make you
faster?...nope...
A good upgrade in terms of reliable is to have a wheelset designed for
you and your specific needs...BUT sounds like the LBS doesn't do that,
as long as they are rec-ing Cosmos.
J
Javier
Guest
I was thinking about keeping the Alex wheels for my trainer since I'm
on the trainer 6 days per week in the off season and five days per week
during riding season. So I figured I'd have a set of riding rims and
trainer wheels. However, from all the info I'm getting on the Cosmos
wheel set I'm probably better off buying an inexpensive rear wheel and
cassette from Performance, keep my Alex wheels for the road and save a
few hundred bucks.
on the trainer 6 days per week in the off season and five days per week
during riding season. So I figured I'd have a set of riding rims and
trainer wheels. However, from all the info I'm getting on the Cosmos
wheel set I'm probably better off buying an inexpensive rear wheel and
cassette from Performance, keep my Alex wheels for the road and save a
few hundred bucks.
J
Javier
Guest
Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
would I have to drop.
and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
would I have to drop.
M
M-gineering
Guest
Javier wrote:
So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
>
more than you can afford, so you can't complain and have to tell all
your mates how wonderfull your wheels are
--
---
Marten Gerritsen
INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
>
more than you can afford, so you can't complain and have to tell all
your mates how wonderfull your wheels are
--
---
Marten Gerritsen
INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
J
Javier
Guest
So in other words, stick with my Alex AT450's and get an extra rear
wheel and cassette for the trainer?
wheel and cassette for the trainer?
R
Ron Ruff
Guest
Javier wrote:
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
How much lighter are the Cosmos? I doubt very much... and weight is
only important when climbing steep hills anyway. I good estimate is if
you save 1% in total weight of the bike and rider, you'll be able to go
almost 1% faster on a steep hill... but 1% in weight is about 2lbs for
most of us! The Cosmos aren't light anyway. I'd forget about saving
weight on your wheels, unless you are not concerned about reliability
and longevity.
Aero is more helpful... but I don't think the Cosmos is aero in rim
profile or spokes. I'd recommend going with a deep aluminum rim
(Velocity Fusion or Deep, Sun Venus or Swift, etc), oval butted spokes
(WS AE15), and probably Ultegra hubs... and a good build. These should
be good for a few tenths of a mph compared to what you now have and
cost around $200-250 for parts, if you shop around.
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
How much lighter are the Cosmos? I doubt very much... and weight is
only important when climbing steep hills anyway. I good estimate is if
you save 1% in total weight of the bike and rider, you'll be able to go
almost 1% faster on a steep hill... but 1% in weight is about 2lbs for
most of us! The Cosmos aren't light anyway. I'd forget about saving
weight on your wheels, unless you are not concerned about reliability
and longevity.
Aero is more helpful... but I don't think the Cosmos is aero in rim
profile or spokes. I'd recommend going with a deep aluminum rim
(Velocity Fusion or Deep, Sun Venus or Swift, etc), oval butted spokes
(WS AE15), and probably Ultegra hubs... and a good build. These should
be good for a few tenths of a mph compared to what you now have and
cost around $200-250 for parts, if you shop around.
J
Javier
Guest
Thaks for all the advice guys. I'll keep my cash and save up for a much
better set of wheels. From my perspective the AT450's are not bad at
all, I just figured if I'm on the trainer 4-5 days per week I'd buy
myself a set of road wheels and keep my 450's for the trainer. But
maybe buying just one rear wheel or changing tires is a better idea.
better set of wheels. From my perspective the AT450's are not bad at
all, I just figured if I'm on the trainer 4-5 days per week I'd buy
myself a set of road wheels and keep my 450's for the trainer. But
maybe buying just one rear wheel or changing tires is a better idea.
Q
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Guest
Javier wrote:
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
The difference would be small but a very light, very aero carbon
wheelset in the 1200 gr range...$1600+++.
But even so, the weight savings is 400-600 grams...about a pound on a
180 or so pound rider/bicycle package. The 'aeroness' would help but
again, the advantages are small and diffucult to quantify since it is a
human powered vehicle and that 'power out' is not consistent.
Really only 4 things that can make a 'noticable' difference in your
riding performance.
-fitness-being 'fit'
-bike fit
-fat, lack thereof on you
-finesse-riding and racing smart.
The bicycle is a small part of the riding equation..it mostly there
just to 'get you there'.
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
The difference would be small but a very light, very aero carbon
wheelset in the 1200 gr range...$1600+++.
But even so, the weight savings is 400-600 grams...about a pound on a
180 or so pound rider/bicycle package. The 'aeroness' would help but
again, the advantages are small and diffucult to quantify since it is a
human powered vehicle and that 'power out' is not consistent.
Really only 4 things that can make a 'noticable' difference in your
riding performance.
-fitness-being 'fit'
-bike fit
-fat, lack thereof on you
-finesse-riding and racing smart.
The bicycle is a small part of the riding equation..it mostly there
just to 'get you there'.
D
David
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
>
Javier,
Lighter wheels may give you a quicker feeling of acceleration, but it
won't help you gain any perceptible speed. You need to be fitter in
order to gain more speed. Having said that, aero wheels are more
beneficial compared to light weight wheels, but in order to take full
advantage of them, you need to be riding at a minium of 20mph to gain
an advantage of 1 extra mph -- yes, that's 1 mph faster! And that's
with a Zipp 303, 404 or a pair of Neuvation carbons.
The cosmos? I would stay away from them.. If you want to go fast on
the flats and need aero, go with a pair of deep dish wheels. A used
Campy Shamal for the front (always on sale on eBay) could be the
ticket, and then keep the Alex rear as it is.. I am not sure why you
need one wheel for the trainer and one for riding on the road? And the
Alex wheel is just as good as any below $1000 wheelset out there on the
market..
Save your money. Train right and try to learn how to ride as
aerodynamically as possible (ride low).. You'll find that these
methods are sure ways in making you ride faster.
David.
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Besides the trainer deal I was hoping the wheels would help me speed
> and climbing wise but if they won't there's not much point to spending
> the cash. So, let's say I did want to upgrade to a wheel set that would
> give me a noticeable speed and climbing performance boost how much cash
> would I have to drop.
>
Javier,
Lighter wheels may give you a quicker feeling of acceleration, but it
won't help you gain any perceptible speed. You need to be fitter in
order to gain more speed. Having said that, aero wheels are more
beneficial compared to light weight wheels, but in order to take full
advantage of them, you need to be riding at a minium of 20mph to gain
an advantage of 1 extra mph -- yes, that's 1 mph faster! And that's
with a Zipp 303, 404 or a pair of Neuvation carbons.
The cosmos? I would stay away from them.. If you want to go fast on
the flats and need aero, go with a pair of deep dish wheels. A used
Campy Shamal for the front (always on sale on eBay) could be the
ticket, and then keep the Alex rear as it is.. I am not sure why you
need one wheel for the trainer and one for riding on the road? And the
Alex wheel is just as good as any below $1000 wheelset out there on the
market..
Save your money. Train right and try to learn how to ride as
aerodynamically as possible (ride low).. You'll find that these
methods are sure ways in making you ride faster.
David.
D
David
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thaks for all the advice guys. I'll keep my cash and save up for a much
> better set of wheels. From my perspective the AT450's are not bad at
> all, I just figured if I'm on the trainer 4-5 days per week I'd buy
> myself a set of road wheels and keep my 450's for the trainer. But
> maybe buying just one rear wheel or changing tires is a better idea.
>
Javier,
Changing the tire is a better idea and is really not that difficult.
You just need to master the technique that's all..
If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html and then
decide whether it will be worth your while..
My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
you don't, save your money until you can.
David.
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thaks for all the advice guys. I'll keep my cash and save up for a much
> better set of wheels. From my perspective the AT450's are not bad at
> all, I just figured if I'm on the trainer 4-5 days per week I'd buy
> myself a set of road wheels and keep my 450's for the trainer. But
> maybe buying just one rear wheel or changing tires is a better idea.
>
Javier,
Changing the tire is a better idea and is really not that difficult.
You just need to master the technique that's all..
If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html and then
decide whether it will be worth your while..
My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
you don't, save your money until you can.
David.
J
Javier
Guest
Guys,
Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any problems
with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the trainer? I use a
Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any problems
with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the trainer? I use a
Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
A
David wrote:
> If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
> http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html
>
> My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
> speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
> yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
> you don't, save your money until you can.
>
> David.
Great article! Thanks for the link.
However, I don't understand why you recommend buying high-tech wheels
only after you are "able" to maintain a certain speed. The web site you
linked to says
"It's interesting to note, that the rider with the slower average
speed actually posts the greatest time improvement using deep aero
wheels."
To me, it seems the faster riders would have less time savings, so
slower riders should buy aero wheels to save more time.
> If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
> http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html
>
> My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
> speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
> yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
> you don't, save your money until you can.
>
> David.
Great article! Thanks for the link.
However, I don't understand why you recommend buying high-tech wheels
only after you are "able" to maintain a certain speed. The web site you
linked to says
"It's interesting to note, that the rider with the slower average
speed actually posts the greatest time improvement using deep aero
wheels."
To me, it seems the faster riders would have less time savings, so
slower riders should buy aero wheels to save more time.
B
Bill Sornson
Guest
Javier wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any
> problems with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the
> trainer? I use a Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
My guess is yes. How about getting a dirt-cheap rear wheel (and tire) just
for trainer use?
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any
> problems with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the
> trainer? I use a Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
My guess is yes. How about getting a dirt-cheap rear wheel (and tire) just
for trainer use?
J
Javier
Guest
J
Javier
Guest
Hi David,
The reason I wanted to use a separate wheel for the trainer is because
off season I'm on the trainer six days per week and during riding
season I'm on there four to five times per week. So, it's easier for me
to swap out a ready to go rear wheel than swap tires.
Javier
The reason I wanted to use a separate wheel for the trainer is because
off season I'm on the trainer six days per week and during riding
season I'm on there four to five times per week. So, it's easier for me
to swap out a ready to go rear wheel than swap tires.
Javier
D
David
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any problems
> with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the trainer? I use a
> Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
>
Hi Javier,
As long as the hub is a cup and cone bearing type, then all you have to
worry about are adequate lubrication and the little ball bearings
inside the hub are still round. These ball bearings, the good quality
ones ok, are dirt cheap when bought bulk and will last you a long time
if you are a fair weather cyclist. Good Shimano hubs in general will
last you a long time if properly maintained -- I still run an old rear
1999 Shimano RSX with over 50,000km on it with less than stellar
maintenance performance record (I can sometimes be a bit lazy changing
the balls). It still spins very smoothly, much more so than the pair
of sealed DT Swiss hubs on my Bontrager Race Lites which are on my
carbon bike. If and when it breaks, new 105 or Ultegra hubs are cheap,
so you can contemplate into upgrading your rear to much nicer
components when the time comes!!
Hand laced and built 105 or Ultegra teamed with any light weight
Velocity or Mavic rims are sweet and light enough to race on.
David.
Javier <[email protected]> wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all your help, it saved me 450 bucks. Are there any problems
> with hub wear and tear if I use my same wheel on the trainer? I use a
> Fluid2 and the sucker clamps right onto the skewer.
>
Hi Javier,
As long as the hub is a cup and cone bearing type, then all you have to
worry about are adequate lubrication and the little ball bearings
inside the hub are still round. These ball bearings, the good quality
ones ok, are dirt cheap when bought bulk and will last you a long time
if you are a fair weather cyclist. Good Shimano hubs in general will
last you a long time if properly maintained -- I still run an old rear
1999 Shimano RSX with over 50,000km on it with less than stellar
maintenance performance record (I can sometimes be a bit lazy changing
the balls). It still spins very smoothly, much more so than the pair
of sealed DT Swiss hubs on my Bontrager Race Lites which are on my
carbon bike. If and when it breaks, new 105 or Ultegra hubs are cheap,
so you can contemplate into upgrading your rear to much nicer
components when the time comes!!
Hand laced and built 105 or Ultegra teamed with any light weight
Velocity or Mavic rims are sweet and light enough to race on.
David.
D
David
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> David wrote:
> > If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
> > http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html
> >
> > My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
> > speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
> > yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
> > you don't, save your money until you can.
> >
> > David.
>
> Great article! Thanks for the link.
>
> However, I don't understand why you recommend buying high-tech wheels
> only after you are "able" to maintain a certain speed. The web site you
> linked to says
> "It's interesting to note, that the rider with the slower average
> speed actually posts the greatest time improvement using deep aero
> wheels."
>
> To me, it seems the faster riders would have less time savings, so
> slower riders should buy aero wheels to save more time.
>
Hi there,
The time savings for any weight and aerodynamic advantage gained by
buying newer technology can be noticeable to a slower rider. It is
because he or she spends a longer time out on the road compared to a
faster rider and thus is subjected to watts reducing resistance longer.
What these technology do is to reduce the amount of energy needed to
move the same bike and achieve a certain cruising speed. Think of a
60W incandescent light bulb compared to a 60W effective light output of
a flourescent light bulb. Both are powered by a 120V outlet, but the
flourescent light bulb will obviously save you more energy than a
regular bulb, while giving out the same light output. That's what new
bike technology does -- saves energy for the rider under varied
conditions.. Will it increase the solo rider's speed? The answer is
no, because the rider's power output is what the rider can muster. He
needs training in order to increase that raw power output.. A typical
recreational rider has a power output of about 150watts. A seasoned
non-competitive rider can have an output ranging from 200-300 watts.
As you reach the level of 250 to 300 watts, you will then start to
benefit somewhat from those expensive toys.
On the Neuvation site, the owner explains his position when it comes to
expensive carbon wheels and he made a note that strike me to being
honest and fair. If you can't go faster than 16mph, don't bother with
these expensive wheels. Not a lot of bike stores will refuse to make a
sale out of honesty and integrity.
And the point I am trying to make is really very simple. A rider does
not have an infinite energy reserve. On a typical century ride, he or
she needs to conserve every bit of energy to come out in the end FRESH.
But you also need to make sure that you are maximizing the usage of any
energy saving toys you have on your bike, or you will end up having a
bunch of expensive ornaments that do nothing other than to maintain
your weak ego.
David.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> David wrote:
> > If you want to save up for a much better wheelset, read this first
> > http://www.ccbracing.com/feature/2004/january/mcallumaero.html
> >
> > My advise to you is this. If you are "able" to maintain an average
> > speed of 20mph (that's about 32km/h) with your current wheelset, then
> > yes, go ahead and invest lots of moolah on these high tech wheels.. If
> > you don't, save your money until you can.
> >
> > David.
>
> Great article! Thanks for the link.
>
> However, I don't understand why you recommend buying high-tech wheels
> only after you are "able" to maintain a certain speed. The web site you
> linked to says
> "It's interesting to note, that the rider with the slower average
> speed actually posts the greatest time improvement using deep aero
> wheels."
>
> To me, it seems the faster riders would have less time savings, so
> slower riders should buy aero wheels to save more time.
>
Hi there,
The time savings for any weight and aerodynamic advantage gained by
buying newer technology can be noticeable to a slower rider. It is
because he or she spends a longer time out on the road compared to a
faster rider and thus is subjected to watts reducing resistance longer.
What these technology do is to reduce the amount of energy needed to
move the same bike and achieve a certain cruising speed. Think of a
60W incandescent light bulb compared to a 60W effective light output of
a flourescent light bulb. Both are powered by a 120V outlet, but the
flourescent light bulb will obviously save you more energy than a
regular bulb, while giving out the same light output. That's what new
bike technology does -- saves energy for the rider under varied
conditions.. Will it increase the solo rider's speed? The answer is
no, because the rider's power output is what the rider can muster. He
needs training in order to increase that raw power output.. A typical
recreational rider has a power output of about 150watts. A seasoned
non-competitive rider can have an output ranging from 200-300 watts.
As you reach the level of 250 to 300 watts, you will then start to
benefit somewhat from those expensive toys.
On the Neuvation site, the owner explains his position when it comes to
expensive carbon wheels and he made a note that strike me to being
honest and fair. If you can't go faster than 16mph, don't bother with
these expensive wheels. Not a lot of bike stores will refuse to make a
sale out of honesty and integrity.
And the point I am trying to make is really very simple. A rider does
not have an infinite energy reserve. On a typical century ride, he or
she needs to conserve every bit of energy to come out in the end FRESH.
But you also need to make sure that you are maximizing the usage of any
energy saving toys you have on your bike, or you will end up having a
bunch of expensive ornaments that do nothing other than to maintain
your weak ego.
David.
J
Javier
Guest
David,
Would you happen to know what size cone wrench I would use to service
my Tiagra hubs? I looked on Shimano's site but there's no service
manual for the Tiagra hubs thus I don't knoiw what size cone wrenches
to purchase.
Javier
Would you happen to know what size cone wrench I would use to service
my Tiagra hubs? I looked on Shimano's site but there's no service
manual for the Tiagra hubs thus I don't knoiw what size cone wrenches
to purchase.
Javier
