MAVIC "MA2" wheel w/ "three leading, three trailing"

[[email protected]]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805

Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or since
it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I bid and
win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wizardB]

[email protected] wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>
> Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
> good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or since
> it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I bid and
> win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
Run away save your money!!

 

[[email protected]]

On May 25, 10:17 pm, wizardB <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>
> > Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
> > good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or since
> > it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I bid and
> > win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> Run away save your money!!

Two exclamation points!! Why run away? The rim? The spoking? Something
else? Thanks.

 

[wizardB]

[email protected] wrote:
> On May 25, 10:17 pm, wizardB <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>>> Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
>>> good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or since
>>> it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I bid and
>>> win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>>> Thanks in advance.
>> Run away save your money!!
>
> Two exclamation points!! Why run away? The rim? The spoking? Something
> else? Thanks.
>
The spoke count the build the hub used buy a new openpro rim and build
and a used modern hub if you want a good wheel,old wheels like old
spaghetti are limp and loose

 

[Ron Ruff]

On May 25, 7:30 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> What might go wrong? How long would it take?

The lacing pattern should be fine for a front wheel. For a rear I
don't like the idea of having so many pulling or pushing spokes in one
spot, but there isn't significant torque on the front. Aluminum
nipples with only oil could be a problem if you live in a coastal area
or ride on salted roads. The hubs is ~40 years old, so I would ask
specifically about its condition.

 

[[email protected]]

someone writes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805

> Weird spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be
> a good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or
> since it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I
> bid and win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?

1. You probably won't "bid and win", MA-2 rims going for big money.

2. Unspoke the rim and build up a good wheel on a good hub.

The large spoke incident angles at some of the spoke nipples often
cause failures. Consider this auction as a rim rather than a wheel.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Tom Ace]

On May 26, 9:30 am, [email protected] wrote:

> The large spoke incident angles at some of the spoke nipples often
> cause failures. Consider this auction as a rim rather than a wheel.

The spoke angles and lengths in this pattern are
the same as in a conventional 36 spoke 3x wheel.
Are you suggesting using 2x instead?

I've been using a front wheel in this pattern
(with a large flange hub and an MA-2 rim) for
the past ten years (I don't have a mile count)
and it's held up fine.

Conventional 3x is of course more stable and durable,
I use this pattern just for the fun of it.

Tom Ace

 

[[email protected]]

On May 26, 11:30 am, [email protected] wrote:
> someone writes:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>
> > Weird spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be
> > a good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or
> > since it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I
> > bid and win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>
> 1. You probably won't "bid and win", MA-2 rims going for big money.
>
> 2. Unspoke the rim and build up a good wheel on a good hub.
>
> The large spoke incident angles at some of the spoke nipples often
> cause failures. Consider this auction as a rim rather than a wheel.
>
> Jobst Brandt

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean by "large incident
angle". I understand that despite the strage spoke pattern this wheel
has the same spoke incident angle as a normal 3 cross wheel, so it
shouldn't be excessive, or do you mean *any* 3x high flange hub makes
a large incident angle? Back in the day high flange hubs were often
laced even 4 cross, and I suppose that may have been excessive. Would
you recommend 2 cross? Thanks in advance.

 

[[email protected]]

On May 26, 10:53 am, Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 25, 7:30 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>
> The lacing pattern should be fine for a front wheel. For a rear I
> don't like the idea of having so many pulling or pushing spokes in one
> spot, but there isn't significant torque on the front. Aluminum
> nipples with only oil could be a problem if you live in a coastal area
> or ride on salted roads. The hubs is ~40 years old, so I would ask
> specifically about its condition.

Thanks for your repy. I thought the same thing about a front wheel
maybe being okay with that spoke pattern. After all, I've rarely
experienced many problems with front wheels anyway.

About the aluminum nipples and coast - I assume you mean because of
corrosion? What would you recommend on the nipples if I were to
rebuild (possibly even in a plain 3 cross pattern)?

Good point on the hub. What should I ask about? Bearings? Miles?
Thanks in advance!

 

[landotter]

On May 25, 8:30 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>
> Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
> good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim?

Nothing, unless you're a MA2 fanboy.

Thirty bucks gets you a brand new straight and strong rim from either
Alex or Sun. If you want a retro look, build up a polish silver CR18,
if you want strength on the cheap, Alex can't be beat.

 

[[email protected]]

Tom Ace writes:

>> The large spoke incident angles at some of the spoke nipples often
>> cause failures. Consider this auction as a rim rather than a
>> wheel.

> The spoke angles and lengths in this pattern are the same as in a
> conventional 36 spoke 3x wheel. Are you suggesting using 2x
> instead?

It's the spoke pattern and a large flange that give the angle. I
don't believe the wheel was built while improving the spoke line,
which is useful even with small flange hubs.

> I've been using a front wheel in this pattern (with a large flange
> hub and an MA-2 rim) for the past ten years (I don't have a mile
> count) and it's held up fine.

That can occur, but there is a greater load on the flanges from the
grouping and one-sided spoke exit among the groups.

> Conventional 3x is of course more stable and durable, I use this
> pattern just for the fun of it.

I see no benefit in artsy spoke patterns. This one puts more stress
on the flanges as they emerge, one sided in groups of three. It seems
these are 2.0-1.8 swaged spoke that seem to fir the hub holes closely.
In that way it probably isn't the worst combination, but knowing how
flange failures occur and how badly a wheel warps, I prefer to use
conventional crossed spoking on small flange hubs.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

someone writes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805

>>> Weird spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to
>>> be a good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim?
>>> Or since it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming
>>> I bid and win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?

>> 1. You probably won't "bid and win", MA-2 rims going for big money.

>> 2. Unspoke the rim and build up a good wheel on a good hub.

>> The large spoke incident angles at some of the spoke nipples often
>> cause failures. Consider this auction as a rim rather than a
>> wheel.

> Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean by "large incident
> angle". I understand that despite the strange spoke pattern this
> wheel has the same spoke incident angle as a normal 3 cross wheel,
> so it shouldn't be excessive, or do you mean *any* 3x high flange
> hub makes a large incident angle? Back in the day high flange hubs
> were often laced even 4 cross, and I suppose that may have been
> excessive. Would you recommend 2 cross? Thanks in advance.

You are right about that. Looking at the picture it struck me that
the spokes came into spoke nipples with, what appears to be a bend,
that could cause failure. I believe large flange hubs came along for
track bicycles to enable replacing spokes without pulling off the
sprocket on rear wheels. I have seen no other reason. As I recall,
originally there were practically no large flange Campagnolo road
hubs, the only ones generally used at that time.

My first experience with large flange hubs exposed me to many spoke
failures that led to stress relieving and improving the spoke line.
That was with the Stella stainless spokes of the day. They failed at
the slightest excuse.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Ron Ruff]

On May 26, 11:08 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> About the aluminum nipples and coast - I assume you mean because of
> corrosion? What would you recommend on the nipples if I were to
> rebuild (possibly even in a plain 3 cross pattern)?

Tef-gel on the threads, or use brass nipples (best long term
solution). I'd keep the pattern unless you don't like the way it
looks.

> Good point on the hub. What should I ask about? Bearings? Miles?

The condition of the races and cones... they will probably be
impossible to replace if they are in poor condition. Bearings would be
easily replaced.

 

[G.T.]

landotter wrote:
> On May 25, 8:30 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>>
>> Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
>> good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim?
>
> Nothing, unless you're a MA2 fanboy.
>
> Thirty bucks gets you a brand new straight and strong rim from either
> Alex or Sun. If you want a retro look, build up a polish silver CR18,
> if you want strength on the cheap, Alex can't be beat.
>

Which Alex or Sun have double-eyelets?

Greg
--
The ticketbastard Tax Tracker:
http://www.ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky

 

[Victor Kan]

On May 26, 5:59 pm, "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote:
> Which Alex or Sun have double-eyelets?

Among their road rims, the Alex AT400 Pro and the R390 (not the "pro"
version though). Alexrims.com has details on their stuff.

I don't know about the Sun rims.

 

[[email protected]]

Victor Kan writes:

>> Which Alex or Sun have double-eyelets?

Or better said sockets ans eyelets similar to an MA-2 or many other
rims that didn't crack when ridden.

> Among their road rims, the Alex AT400 Pro and the R390 (not the
> "pro" version though). Alexrims.com has details on their stuff.

> I don't know about the Sun rims.

I found no information on the web about these rims other than that
they had no sockets. If such rims are available, I expect they would
be listed somewhere. Can you furnish links to their cross sections
and other specifications?

Jobst Brandt

 

[daveornee]

Victor Kan writes:

>> Which Alex or Sun have double-eyelets?

Or better said sockets ans eyelets similar to an MA-2 or many other
rims that didn't crack when ridden.

> Among their road rims, the Alex AT400 Pro and the R390 (not the
> "pro" version though). Alexrims.com has details on their stuff.

> I don't know about the Sun rims.

I found no information on the web about these rims other than that
they had no sockets. If such rims are available, I expect they would
be listed somewhere. Can you furnish links to their cross sections
and other specifications?

Jobst Brandt

http://www.alexrims.com/
AT400 PRO Features
Double wall/ double eyelet design
Deep inner wall
Wear Line Indicator
Tech Spec
Welded joint, 28 or 32 holes, silver, black W/CSW, W/SDE
700C-435g, ERD 600mm, ETRTO 622X14mm
You will need to click on road rims and follow your nose as AlexRims doesn't have sublinks to give.
I don't know about the R390 and I couldn't find it on the site.
While you are there you might also want to look at thier cross/trekking rims.
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

 

[landotter]

On May 26, 9:26 pm, daveornee <daveornee.2r8...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

> I don't know about the R390 and I couldn't find it on the site.
> While you are there you might also want to look at thier cross/trekking
> rims.

It's under "Road" rims and looks to be socketed. 485g and $35 street.
I've not ridden that particular model, but I've built a couple using
some of their non-eyeletted rims, and have owned three bikes with
various rims from the "cross/trekking" category. All have stayed bang
on true after a proper meeting with a spoke wrench.

 

[[email protected]]

Dave Ornee writes:

>>>> Which Alex or Sun have double-eyelets?

>> Or better said sockets ans eyelets similar to an MA-2 or many other
>> rims that didn't crack when ridden.

>>> Among their road rims, the Alex AT400 Pro and the R390 (not the
>>> "pro" version though). Alexrims.com has details on their stuff.

>>> I don't know about the Sun rims.

>> I found no information on the web about these rims other than that
>> they had no sockets. If such rims are available, I expect they
>> would be listed somewhere. Can you furnish links to their cross
>> sections and other specifications?

> http://www.alexrims.com/
> AT400 PRO Features
> Double wall/ double eyelet design
> Deep inner wall
> Wear Line Indicator
> Tech Spec
> Welded joint, 28 or 32 holes, silver, black W/CSW, W/SDE
> 700C-435g, ERD 600mm, ETRTO 622X14mm

It seems this is the only Alex rim that has sockets and eyelets.
Their emphasis seems to be aero and light weight. 18mm is narrow and
the walls, although having a wear indicator, are thin.

> You will need to click on road rims and follow your nose as AlexRims
> doesn't have sublinks to give.

> I don't know about the R390 and I couldn't find it on the site.
> While you are there you might also want to look at their
> cross/trekking rims.

The R390 showed up OK here and has only eyelets, besides having a
gratuitously sculptured ugly shape.

Jobst Brandt

 

[* * Chas]

Am I missing something? No where in the eBay description does it state
what size wheel is for auction. Is it 27". 700c or what?

I take it back - one of the pictures shows that the rim is 622 x 13 which
is a 700c.

To quote the battle cry of the brave knights in one of the Monty Python
movies:

"Run away! Run away!"

Unless you're interested in a replacement wheel for a retro bike, you're
buying potential problems with the hub.

Normandy Luxe hubs were never more than a middle of the road products
similar to Campy Nuovo Tipo hubs. They were produced up until 1974. Even
back in the day finding replacement Luxe hub parts was difficult and we
used to import French components.

Normandy Luxe hubs were only used on a few mid range French and Brit
bikes. The cones were an odd ball size and if you were able to find cones
that fit the axle they didn't match up with the holes in the hubs so dirt
could easily get into the bearings.

MA2 rims come up for auction on eBay at least every other week and the
sell for ~$40-60 USD. You can also buy good front wheels with Campy hubs
and MA2 rims for under $60 USD on eBay.

Good luck,

Chas.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110129476805
>
> Wierd spoking pattern, but is this the MA2 rim that's supposed to be a
> good rim? How much is it worth to buy it for just the rim? Or since
> it's already built, should I just ride it as-is (assuming I bid and
> win)? What might go wrong? How long would it take?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>