Mavic Open Pros - experiences?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Paul, May 27, 2003.

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  1. Paul

    Paul Guest

    If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built is
    critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw under
    200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no touring.
    Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Paul
     
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  2. Jim Edgar

    Jim Edgar Guest

    Paul at paulunderscorecampbell at med point unc point edu wrote on 5/27/03
    7:56 AM:

    > If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    > Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    > are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built
    > is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw
    > under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no
    > touring. Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.

    Paul -

    For the rear, I'd be leaning toward 32h at your size, with no appreciable benefit from dropping to
    28h given your planned use.

    I wouldn't be afraid to go 28h on the front, if you really want to brag about low spoke
    count wheels.

    If you really want "more longevity", you could go 32/36h...

    -- Jim
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, Paul <paulunderscorecampbell at med point unc point
    edu> wrote:
    >If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    >Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    >are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built
    >is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw
    >under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no touring.
    >Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.

    91kg - 28 is not enough spokes. Put 36 in the back if you want longevity. You can certainly ride a
    32-spoke wheel but the 36 will be considerably longer lasting and there is no down side - the weight
    difference of 4 spokes is practically nothing.

    --Paul
     
  4. helen

    helen Guest

    In article <0YMAa.35445$A%[email protected]>, Paul Southworth
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > 91kg - 28 is not enough spokes. Put 36 in the back if you want longevity. You can certainly ride a
    > 32-spoke wheel but the 36 will be considerably longer lasting and there is no down side - the
    > weight difference of 4 spokes is practically nothing.
    >
    > --Paul
    >

    I weigh about 20 iron pipe nipples above 200 lbs. and do nicely on a well built 32 3x front and
    rear. At the end of the first year/first 3k miles the rear had one small wobble that wasn't even
    enough to touch the brakes. They haven't been touched by a spoke wrench in the 3 years since.

    TRuk
     
  5. Tezza

    Tezza New Member

    Joined:
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    Paul,
    Open Pros are as good as everyone says they are. I doubt if you will get a stronger, lighter wheel for the money.

    Many of the better (and wealthier) riders in my club have moved up to Mavic Kyseriums but can't bear to part with their old Open Pros. They are now pressed into service as training or commuter wheels and clocking up BIG miles.

    I have just had a set built up on 32 hole 105 hubs with double butted DT Swiss Competition spokes. The wheel builder only tensioned everything very lightly, wanting me to do a gentle 200km or so before doing the finishing touches. However, I went out and did a 150 km race over 2 days in VERY wet conditions on a pretty rough course. At the end of the first day, 4 spokes in the back wheel had become so loose they rattled. I sinched them up by feel and continued on day 2. At the finish, the rear wheel had barely a wobble in it. I weigh 103kg!
    The wheel builder has now tightened everything up and added Loctite to the nipples - the Wheels are perfect.

    Consider too that an 18 spoke wheel needs higher spoke tension than 32er or 36er, and will therefor have a harsher ride. Also if you break one of 18, it is a much more serious situation than 1 of 32 or 36.
    Hope this is helpful.
    ;)
     
  6. Gary Mishler

    Gary Mishler Guest

    "Paul" <paulunderscorecampbell at med point unc point edu> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    > Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    > are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built
    > is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw
    > under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no
    > touring. Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.

    FWIW - I'm a 225# rider on Open Pro 32 hole 3 cross wheelset. My wheel builder wished had gone 36 h
    on the rear but after 1,500 miles on the wheelset I have had NO problem with Open Pros.

    Hope that helps, Mish
     
  7. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "Gary Mishler" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >FWIW - I'm a 225# rider on Open Pro 32 hole 3 cross wheelset. My wheel builder wished had gone 36 h
    >on the rear but after 1,500 miles on the wheelset I have had NO problem with Open Pros.

    For a point of reference, I run Sun ME14A rims (basically identical to the Open Pros) on my tandem,
    with "only" 36 spokes front and rear. That's the equivalent of a very strong 300 pound rider on a 40
    pound bike, and a tandem puts a lot more torque on a wheel due to its wheel base and geometry.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Tezza" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Paul, Open Pros are as good as everyone says they are. I doubt if you will get a stronger, lighter
    > wheel for the money.

    The Open Pros are not cheap. The reservations expressed about this type of rim many times on this NG
    is that they may crack around the eyelets because of the anodized finish used, and the machined
    sidewalls result in an indeterminate (but reduced) sidewall thickness, which translates into reduced
    service life. Rims are consumables, these rims are much more expensive than those they replaced, the
    price difference being justified by the questionable "improvements".

    > I have just had a set built up on 32 hole 105 hubs with double butted DT Swiss Competition spokes.
    > The wheel builder only tensioned everything very lightly, wanting me to do a gentle 200km or so
    > before doing the finishing touches. However, I went out and did a 150 km race over 2 days in VERY
    > wet conditions on a pretty rough course. At the end of the first day, 4 spokes in the back wheel
    > had become so loose they rattled. I sinched them up by feel and continued on day 2. At the finish,
    > the rear wheel had barely a wobble in it. I weigh 103kg! The wheel builder has now tightened
    > everything up and added Loctite to the nipples - the Wheels are perfect.

    This is very strange. I have no idea why anyone would have you ride lightly tensioned wheels at all,
    never mind 200 km. That's a very good way to destroy a rim, the strength of the wheel coming from
    spoke tension. Loctite on nipples is not a good idea. Well tensioned wheels shouldn't need it, and
    it's a real nuisance when you need to re-rim the wheel. Ask this guy if he stress relieved the
    wheels, and if so, what his technique was. Check that against the FAQ. If he didn't do it right (or
    at all) you'll have spoke problems.

    >
    > Consider too that an 18 spoke wheel needs higher spoke tension than 32er or 36er, and will
    > therefor have a harsher ride. Also if you break one of 18, it is a much more serious situation
    > than 1 of 32 or 36. Hope this is helpful. ;)
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > >--------------------------<
    > Posted via cyclingforums.com http://www.cyclingforums.com
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, Gary Mishler <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >"Paul" <paulunderscorecampbell at med point unc point edu> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    >> Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity.
    >> What are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are
    >> built is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti
    >> screw under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no
    >> touring. Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.
    >
    >FWIW - I'm a 225# rider on Open Pro 32 hole 3 cross wheelset. My wheel builder wished had gone 36 h
    >on the rear but after 1,500 miles on the wheelset I have had NO problem with Open Pros.

    1,500 miles just isn't a measure of wheel reliability.
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Tezza" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> Paul, Open Pros are as good as everyone says they are. I doubt if you will get a stronger,
    >> lighter wheel for the money.
    >
    >The Open Pros are not cheap. The reservations expressed about this type of rim many times on this
    >NG is that they may crack around the eyelets because of the anodized finish used,

    So get the silver ones, they cost less anyway. The hard anodized finishes are optional.

    I agree with your points about side-wall machining, etc. - all that will be changed when I am
    emperor - but the Open Pro is still a decent lightweight rim and you can make a good wheel
    out of it.

    --Paul
     
  11. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Tezza wrote:

    > Open Pros are as good as everyone says they are. I doubt if you will get a stronger, lighter wheel
    > for the money.

    > I have just had a set built up on 32 hole 105 hubs with double butted DT Swiss Competition spokes.
    > The wheel builder only tensioned everything very lightly, wanting me to do a gentle 200km or so
    > before doing the finishing touches. However, I went out and did a 150 km race over 2 days in VERY
    > wet conditions on a pretty rough course. At the end of the first day, 4 spokes in the back wheel
    > had become so loose they rattled. I sinched them up by feel and continued on day 2. At the finish,
    > the rear wheel had barely a wobble in it. I weigh 103kg! The wheel builder has now tightened
    > everything up and added Loctite to the nipples - the Wheels are perfect.

    I think you need a new wheel builder. What was the idea of lightly tensioning the wheel and having
    you do 200km before doing the "finishing touches?" And if he finally tightened them correctly, why
    does he need Locktite?

    Art Harris
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>, Tezza <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >I have just had a set built up on 32 hole 105 hubs with double butted DT Swiss Competition spokes.
    >The wheel builder only tensioned everything very lightly, wanting me to do a gentle 200km or so
    >before doing the finishing touches.

    WTH? This makes no sense.

    > However, I went out and did a 150 km race over 2 days in VERY wet conditions on a pretty rough
    > course. At the end of the first day, 4 spokes in the back wheel had become so loose they rattled.

    Because the wheels were not properly built the first time.

    > I sinched them up by feel and continued on day 2. At the finish, the rear wheel had barely a
    > wobble in it. I weigh 103kg! The wheel builder has now tightened everything up and added Loctite
    > to the nipples - the Wheels are perfect.

    Sorry to hear about your loctite, it's going to make future wheel maintenance a lot harder.

    --Paul
     
  13. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    > Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    > are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built
    > is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw
    > under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no
    > touring. Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.

    Open Pros are good rims, IMO - they are strong for their weight - BUT if you're not concerned about
    "performance" then you don't need such lightweight rims. You could either get alternatives with more
    material or deeper section for more strength (eg. CXP33), or ones with thicker sidewalls (non Mavic)
    that would survive more total wear from braking.

    I chose OP's for their low weight and reasonable price. Although they seem absolutely fine for most
    _normal_ road riding, I have badly buckled three* of them quite easily down potholes and in crashes
    - where I suspect stronger rims would have remained useable.

    * including one 36h (well built wheel).

    ~PB
     
  14. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    > The Open Pros are not cheap. The reservations expressed about this type of rim many times on this
    > NG is that they may crack around the eyelets because of the anodized finish used

    The cracking issue is only (potentially) serious for the hard anodised
    (CD) versions. The others (including the silver) are only soft anodised.

    ~PB
     
  15. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Many thanks for all of your insight and suggestions.

    Cheers,

    Paul

    "Paul" <paulunderscorecampbell at med point unc point edu> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > If I may add a sidebar query to J. Chen's below, I'm also interested in perhaps getting some 700c
    > Open Pros built. I'm not as interested in performance (not planning to race), more longevity. What
    > are your experiences with these rims and their construction? I understand that how they are built
    > is critical as well, obviously. My lbs has suggested 28 hole, 3x, front and back. I'm a Ti screw
    > under 200 lbs (about 91 kg), and the wheels would be for simple road mileage, no loads, no
    > touring. Experiences and thoughts would be appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Paul
     
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